At this rate our team will be composed solely of corners and strong safeties.
MI DB Raymon Taylor Gets Offer
Some of them will need to bulk up to play NT
No need, GERG is planning to run a 0-0-11. It's never been tried before, but it has to work!
if he's a legit 4.43 40, i take him for sure. the current commits will have to compete and someone may end up transferring down the road.
Can Raymon play FS? If so he would be another nice addition to this class
Sam Webb was talking about how he was a VERY physical corner, and could easily play FS at the next level
what he did to Arnett on the first play of his highlight video, ya, I'd say he's physical.
DB! We need to get after some OL and DL prospects IMO. Congrats to the kid though.
If we're gonna hate on Dave Brandon, can we at least limit it to threads that relate to Brandon and not just bring it up for kicks and giggles? This fanbase is absurd sometimes
I don't think we need another DB, unless it's Wayne Lyons.
Did you watch our DBs this year?
How is Taylor going to change inexperience?
They won't add experience but will add to the depth. And after seeing what all has happened with Michigan defensive backs in recruiting, injuries, and other things I'll gladly take as many as we can get.
And ignore other positions of need?
We have three linebackers (Kinard, Morgan, Jones) committed already and are going after another hard in Frost. As far as young guys go, Robinson, Furman and Hawthorne are more likely to see the field as linebackers going forward than they are in the secondary. Signing Taylor is not going to prevent us from signing a DT either.
Our overall numbers are still low at DB (we'll have at most 4 guys in the junior/senior class next year assuming both Williams and Woolfolk come back from injuries). As such, signing five guys this year for a spot where you play 4/5 at a time makes perfect sense.
Except I am not too high on Kinard, sorry.
Lets hope Frost goes BLUE for Christmas!
Don't forget as well that the initial thoughts re: defensive back recruiting were that MICH needed 2-3 this year BEFORE Turner and Emilien decided to leave the school. I don't think getting up to 5 DBs is inappropriate, and there are scholarships specifically available for DBs at this point.
Kinard hasn't been offered by Michigan for the Class of 2011.
Yeah, I have no idea why the recruiting services keep listing Kinard as a commit since he is not likely to get offered for 2011.
Robinson has been practicing at FS since after the PSU game, and it sounds like he may have finally found a home.
100% agreed. With what has happened to our DB's lately, I would be more than happy to get a physical athlete like Taylor!
I think our DB depth is far better than our DT/LB depth.
more DTs and LBs
I've mentioned this before - I know a HS coach in Michigan who has said many times that if he could have ANY two players in MI he'd take Taylor and Rawls. ANY - that includes Zettel, Thomas, Arnett, all of them.
Don't know about it myself but I'd love to see both Taylor and Rawls in maize and blue. Hope they decide that we're the best choice.
Rawls is a heck of a player. He is severely undervalued. If Justice Hayes is ranked as high as he is, than Thomas Rawls deserves to be that high and then some if Justice is the standard at his ranking. I wouldn't be surprised at all at the programs that would jump in on Thomas if he ever gets a test score.
to then ask that coach if he has seen each one of these men in action live. Plus, I think the Michigan coaches are probably better judges of talent that one high school coach.
I know that's a joke, but it doesn't make sense since MSU isn't recruiting him.
You can see he's an athlete - stays with his man, but really closes on the ball fast once its thrown. At least I think that was the ball - pretty fuzzy video.
No disrespect to Taylor, but how about we offer a goddamn nose tackle or three. If we don't get someone in this class we will have at most 2 players physically capable of playing the position when Martin graduates. Even before you account for the possibility of injuries and attrition that's a recipe for disaster.
True NT's are pretty hard to find. Kids walking around in H.S. at 300 lbs are few and far in between, and the only DT's that are uncomitted that they haven't offered, or are worthy of an offer are Mason Fuller and Kevin McReynolds. It is not a terribly deep year for DT's this year, and you can't make them come here just because they have an offer. I am sure the staff would love a DT or too.
I expect UM to offer a lower rated guy for depth purposes.
You sniped my edit. The coaches would love a DT or two!
I guess we will disagree on that. I would not offer just anybody just for a warm body.
You have to have some depth. Since UM rarely recruits JCs', they have to take a chance on a low ranked guy.
Before blowing a scholarship on someone that I thought most likely couldn't compete on this level, I would bring them in as a preferred walk-on. If I were to be pleasantly surprised by the talent level and work ethics of said recruit, I would then extend a scholarship to them.
That's generally not an option. 300-pounders who are even mildly athletic get snapped up by colleges because they're so rare and so necessary. You can't convince a 300-pounder to walk on, because he'll have an offer from somewhere else to play for free.
When you get 300-pounders as walk-ons at a place like Michigan, they're either 6'8" behemoths who aren't very athletic or kids like the 5'6" Dominique Ware (who wasn't 300 lbs. coming out of high school, anyway) who's too short to contribute.
If you want a 300-pounder, you're going to have to shell out a schollie.
that's pretty obvious. it's like asking a 7 footer with limited bball skills to walkon. ain't gonna happen.
I hate to sound spoiled and unrealistic, but the fact that we find ourselves in this position is incredibly frustrating. We could have had Dequinta Jones in 2009, we should have had Jonathon Hankins last year. Instead, we're looking at having two options at maybe the most structurally important position on our defense. Those options are, a recently converted guard and a boom-bust sort who reported in 60 pounds overweight. Either could transfer or get injured. Any recruits brought in next year's class would be true freshmen and almost certainly useless. Michigan's name gets the coaches in a lot of doors and it's not the hardest place to sell. The coaches just have to fucking sell it. I won't break out "UNACCEPTABLE" yet, but going home empty handed in this class is not an option.
Q. Washington, Ash, Talbott
But yup, we'd be in a lot better shape right now w/ Hankins. I know you've been on this in the past. No question a DT or two would round out what is shaping up to be a great class
Talbott is 260 pounds. I don't think he'll ever get bigger than 285 and that's too small for nose tackle.
Sagesse is 289, one inch taller
Both spelled Martin at different times. Probably too early to predict Talbott's max weight, but he's an interior guy
In a 4 man front he's either a DT or the SDE, in a 3 man front he's definitely an end. Patterson and Sagesse both played in Martin's place, but neither was big or strong enough to do so capably. Even Martin is small at 300 pounds to anchor a 3 man front. He's successful at that weight because he's very quick and freakishly strong for his size.
We should've learned by now that you can't have too many DBs. Congrats to Raymon. I would recommend the coaches not assemble all of our dbs in one place at the same time, lest lightning strike or a flash flood occur. There's still plenty of room left in this class for DTs, a kicker, etc.
i don't know, man. a lot of the things that happened to our DBs could have happened to any position group, so by that logic, you can't have too many of anything. except that you only get so many scholarships. i always cringe when people get excited for lower-ranked recruits at already covered positions who "build depth." depth in one area often means lack of depth in another (or less than top-level talent).
p.s. i'm not targeting this at raymon at all. i only have congrats for the kid.
I'm officially confused. I thought that I had a good picture of what our class would look like, but not anymore. I trust the coaches know what they are doing.
Is totally undervalued. This kid would have been a 4* across the board if he had been healthy. He has the size and speed to play safety, and could play corner. I still think that we are looking at taking two more in the def backfield...possibly Taylor and Lyons? That would shore up what is a very shallow bench. And with, what, 8 more spots potentially available, we have plenty of space for some big guys on the front line....one could hope.
Pluse he knows what so-called talent should hit the pavement.
I know people want linebackers and d-linemen, but it's not as if the coaching staff haven't pursued those positions. RR's banking on Zettel, who will go blue if RR is retained, and Frost, who from all reports projects to be a stellar linebacker, appears to be taking a similar approach. Time will tell with those guys.
So one guy is a life-long Michgan fan but might go green ... what? The other wants to get a great education and has doubts about Michigan ... what !!!! Does not compute but hey they are kids.
I'm not quite sure I understand this offer.
Lots of cornerbacks coming in already. Some movement probably has to happen (one of these corners to FS, one of them decommitting, one of them playing WR, something).
Woolfolk, Floyd, Talbott and Avery are the four CBs predominantly being counted on for the 2011 season. Their freshmen 'backups'/redshirt candidates are Crawford/Countess.
Perhaps Christian is considered fifth in line, but also will be competing with Vinopal for the deep safety position (Carvin as well). Their backup/redshirt guy could be Taylor if he commits.
At the Kovacs position, maybe ... Carvin is the backup, and GERG Brown is the 3rd in line.
At the Cam Gordon position, Thomas Gordon is the backup, with Furman as a co-backup for 2011.
I'm also trying to make order of out this DB chaos.
I thought you didn't care about recruiting...
I don't care who commits, but if you look at the information I lined up above, once they're committed, then I think it's appropriate to start looking at how they fit in.
Sam Webb's gut feelings, recruit's press conferences and tweets, their top fives, etc., are what I can do without.
I was only joking.
people are complaining about Michigan having too many DB's in this class.
Remember what the depth chart looked like this season.
I'm betting the coaches think he can play free safety. I'll take all the talented FS and DT players we can get.
Hmmm. I took a closer look at our CBs and safeties, and Taylor looks more like a corner if you only look at height, weight and 40 time.
|Avery||5-9||165||4.55 timed Scout combine|
|Talbott||5-10||175||4.47 Two Fakes|
|Christian||6-1||172||4.55 (One Fake) and 4.68 not Fake|
|Hollowell||5-8||125?||4.66 not fake and 'track notoriously slow'|
|Brown||5-10||180||4.4 one fake (Sept 2009)|
|Countess||5-10||175||4.47, 4.48 one fake (prob combine verified)|
|Crawford||5-10||180, 185||4.47 per recruit video, Brian guessed mid 4.5|
|Vinopal||5-9 1/2||178||4.56 as HS freshman, 4 fakes|
|C Johnson||6-1||195||4.68 neg 1 fake|
|C Gordon||6-3||208||4.6 two fakes|
|Furman||6-2||192||4.39 wind aided fast track|
The heights and weights come from the Spring '10 roster for anyone arriving earlier than this years true freshman. All the 40 times and the heights and weights come from 'hello' posts except Taylor which is from Scout.
Based on this, Floyd and Christian look like the best fits for a CB moving to free safety. Crawford also has the size and speed if he's got the mentality.
The coaches want Taylor to play CB.
Here is my question to everyone. If you make an offer this late in the recruiting season, how long does it usually take for one of these recruits to say yes?
I guess I am surprised that it takes the recuits this long to say yes. I wonder if it took a recruit that long to say yes to Bo / Lloyd etc.
FWIW, I think he stays and I think we end up with a top 15 class.
I guess I am surprised that it takes the recuits this long to say yes. I wonder if it took a recruit that long to say yes to Bo / Lloyd etc
He's had the offer for about a day. I'm sure Bo and Lloyd had plenty of recruits who took a day or longer to decide.
You make it sound like we turned Jones down. Didn't he decommit from us virtually on signing day?
I agree that we screwed up on Hankins. If he was good enough to merit an offer from OSU, then he was good enough to have gotten an offer from us much earlier, instead of when it was too late.
Yes, Jones decommitted on signing day. He was "committed" to Michigan but sent his LOI to Arkansas.
You're right, he turned us down. Jones was a recruiting battle we could have, maybe even should have won, but we lost it, and that's kind of the point. We've lost enough recruiting battles that now we're in a pretty sticky situation. And you're right, Hankins was way worse because 1) having lost Jones before we knew we needed a NT and 2) he was an athletic 320 pounder with offers from OSU and Florida and 3) he grew up in our backyard and desperately wanted to come here, so much so that he held out for most of the recruiting cycle for an offer.
The basis for this was his lack of conditioning. Meanwhile we recruit a guy from florida whose high profile suitors have backed away after questioning his motor. This guy shows up to fall camp 60 pounds heavier than advertised and Hankins contributes on OSU's 2 deep as a true freshman. Gah, just gah.
Predicting the work ethic of 300 pound 17 year olds isn't the easiest thing in the world. Apparently Hankins came to Michigan's camp and the coaches saw him sucking wind and not giving full effort, right in front of them. He wasn't worth an offer at that point. They told him to get in shape, he did, Michigan offered, but OSU was too far ahead at that point. UM's handling of his recruitment is only a mistake in hindsight.
You win some and you lose some. The coaches aren't prescient.
DB and he's from the state,and people are saying we have enough DB'S.I didn't expect to hear this.Also Showers is back on the market maybe,would we take him to.GO BLUE!!!
Probably a good offer.
We should make a run at Valdez Showers. With the change down in Florida, he is having second thoughts. We could have got his commitment months ago, but the staff was slow to offer. I think if we give him enough attention we could get him back.