Meyer a Rodriguez Redux?
And that's checkmate to the OP.
I think Braxton Miller can work in Meyer's offense from day one.
Meyer is unlikely to face the same sort of backlash from Ohio loyalists that Rodriguez saw here.
Meyer's success is not a slam dunk, but Rodriguez's struggles have no bearing here.
re: meyer won't face the backlash.
They just lived through Luke Fickell being head coach.
Well, UM (ntUM) won't face a backlash for two reasons. One big reason is that Ohio has already lived through Luke Fickell and can see that promoting from within isn't going to work (I mean, even a Buckeye can see that Bollman has no business moving into the HC spot).
But second, and more important, is the fact that a great many folks in Ohio don't care about anything but winning. They'll pay players, they'll cheat in classes, they'll lie to the NCAA, and they'll never, ever admit they did anything wrong, even when their head coach is caught lying about player eligibility and NCAA compliance. Does that sound like a program that will let personal loyalty (however misguided or not), tradition, character, and a sense of history interfere with a new coach riding wild?
Why in the world do you expect him to face a backlash? As far as I can tell, they all want him there. I also
highly doubt he'll go 3-9 in his first year.
Nobody ever got more mileage out of one win than RR got out of that Georgia game.
raleighwood, congratulations. I think you just may be the most inflexible anti-RichRod person on this forum. You make dahblue seem reasonable.
OK, then you tell me another significant game that RR has coached in and won. Louisville? Cincinnati? Rutgers? Notre Dame?
I'm not anti-RR. I hope that he has success at Arizona. I'll admit that after watching him in A2 for three seasons, I don't think that he's an elite coach....possibly not even a very good coach (game management was often very questionable, fundamentals were significantly lacking). It's simply not a coincidence that Michigan has had such a dramatic turnaround this season in the area of turnovers, scoring defense, fourth down conversion....things like that. A better coaching staff is in place and that has made all the difference.
He was no longer coaching at the time, but the team he put together killed Oklahoma in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl.
Beat a ranked Georgia Tech and other ranked Big East teams. Lost to the #2 team of Miami by a couple points. Can't really remember much else. Had plenty of good games within his conference. I know the Big East isn't great but there was a surge in the Big East when RR, Petrino, and Ray Rice were in the Big East and it reasonably competitive. Given the state of the Big Ten the last 5-7 years, I don't think that you can ignore wins within a perceived weaker conference because that applies to the Big Ten and Michigan. Besides Florida in 2007, we haven't really had a marquee win in a couple years.
Also, I don't disagree that the overall coaching staff is better now, especially the d-coordinator, but there are a lot of other reasons the team has improved. For one there hasn't been a horrendous amount of attrition. There has been growth from a lot of positions and more experience as a team. Obviously that wouldn't account for the entire incredible surge by the defense, but that is part. I think it is tough to measure RR completely on his time here due to the numerous factors playing into our failure. Also, if we are questioning game management, I think this coaching staff has issues too, mainly around two minute drills and clock management (T/Os particularly). I'm sure it something that will get smoothed out with more familiarity with the team and more experience in the system.
Do you think *maybe* he was commenting on the SEC defense? :)
....this is algebraic equivalent of your implication:
RR played against conference A's defenses.
Meyer played against conference B's defenses.
Conference B's defenses are better than A's so RR could not have had the same success as Meyer.
While there is no argument against the SEC being a stronger conference than the Big East, whether or not RR could have found success coaching in the SEC is certainly debateable. Although my example is "a small sample size," it is still relevant to the question. RR's team competed against, put up 38 points against, and beat then SEC champ Georgia.
What exactly did you offer? Oh yeah. The SEC is a better conference than the Big East. What a revelation!
We need a moderate option for, "whooosh."
We need a moderate option for, "whooosh."
small sample size?
Someone posts a silly notion without concrete justification. I provide a solid example to discredit that notion. You demand more examples. i guess you win.
you posted the score to one bcs game to prove....what? that the big east has legit defenses? that the sec does not? im not really sure what the point was that you were discrediting. but, yes, i am saying one game on the grand scheme of things is fairly meaningless. boise state has beaten oklahoma, utah has beaten alabama, toledo beat michigan. what does that say about the respective conferences? next to nothing.
so yes, forgive me for missing the point of your post.
artds said: "The SEC has legit defenses. The Big East does not. Therein lies the difference."
The implication of his comment is that RR would not have had success against SEC defenses. Although my sample size is small as you were kind enough to point out, what sample size is there to suggest that RR would not have had success in the SEC?
I do not know how RR would do in the SEC. The 2006 Sugar Bowl result does not convince me that I do know, but it does convince me that ardts has absolutely no idea either.
You are forgiven.
|1987 Rose Bowl|
|73rd Rose Bowl Game|
How that turn out for Ohio State?
Bowl games are a completely different animal than conference games. Not only do you have to game plan against an opponent for which you have no frame of reference, you also have to deal with other factors not typically present during the regular season (i.e., a long layoff, how your team handles the distractions of the bowl, your team's motivation for playing in the bowl).
Bottom line? It's dangerous to put too much stock into bowl game results.
Your example is terrible.
In that bowl game, Cooper not only beat Michigan; he beat the Big 10. When he went to OSU, he had considerable success against Big 10 schools. He had OSU in line for National Championship game appearances on multiple occasions. In the end, he didn't beat the only team he needed to.
Second of all, I wasn't trying to prove anything other than there isn't a metric to suggest that RR wouldn't have had success against SEC defenses. He was 3-0 against the SEC at WVU, including a game in which his team put up 38 points on the SEC champ's defense. Even so, I fully agree with everyone that the result of one game does not prove that RR would have had sustained success in the SEC...... but what are you, or anyone else, offering to suggest that he wouldn't?
you forgot the /s at the end of that comment.
OSU has run a lot of spread since 2006 with Troy Smith. Meyer always had killer defenses at Florida and I don't think the cupboard is anywhere near as bare as it was for Rodriguez.
Furthermore, Meyer has OSU ties and isn't going to piss off a lot of the fan base with miscontrued comments early on. He's been through that fire already.
His defenses were coached by a guy that he won't be able to get at OSU...
Actually, Meyer (and UF) had killer defenses 3 of his 6 seasons. Not coincidentally, those were the 3 seasons that UF went 13-1 and won 2 MNC's. The other 3 years, when the UF defense was merely "OK", UF went 9-3, 9-4 and 8-5.
For all the talk of Meyer's offensive genius, UF was only great when their defense was great. When the defense was average to good, UF was, well, average to good. Meyer's success (or lack thereof) at OSU will probably be determined by the success of his defenses as well.
Rich Rod runs an Option which needs small, quick players everywhere for it to be successful including smaller, more agile offensive linemen.
Meyer (under OC Dan Mullen, I honestly don't know what he's going to do now), when he had Tebow at their apex, ran the Power Read Option offense, It involved having a QB running between the tackles and an RB always running off tackle.
So there are subtle differences between offenses. But, hey, Meyer was succesful in the damn SEC. RR was in the Big East. The SEC doesn't even belong in the same sentence as any other conference at this point.
RR was 3-0 against the SEC.
3-1. Mississppt State plays in the SEC.
I meant at West Virginia..... as it was in response to the Big East versus SEC comment.
I certainly agree that there is no comparison between the conferences, but it is worth pointing out that RR did have success against schools in the SEC including then champ Georgia in the 2006 Sugar Bowl.
Did he coach in that game? He never got a ring :(
it was his team which he recruited and developed. The bowl game was played using his offense with his play book and his players. While he may not have been the actual dude to do the game management, I think it would be safe to consider it his team even if he wasn't on the side lines.
To say he was not a primary contributor to the outcome of that game would be ignoring the facts.
But Meyer is a more proven coach than RichRod was when he came here. There may be some growing pains Meyer during he transition.
It is good for us and the B1G for TSIO to be a great team.
I'll take Hoke and can't wait for Saturday and the future.
in a conference as tough if not tougher than the Big 10, and is walking into a team that already has a dual threat QB?
I do see your point, and have thought the same reason myself. Why did he have such success at Florida? I would say the defense that was pretty damn stout, and Tim Tebow. The only reason he had either of those is because of a defensive coordinator that happens to be on our staff.
people who think Tebow made Meyer have the causation exactly backwards.
It is certain that he left the cupboard bare when he retired due to health issues related to losing and lack of Tebow. Guy did nothing post Tebow in Florida and then cut and ran when the pressure came. Best of luck in Columbus Urban.
The name alone will pull a lot in Colombus. I in fact would love the series to go 6-4 in our favor over the next ten years.
He had the best recruiting class in the country his last year. The cupboard is not bare at Florida. Also feel free to seemingly not respect the accomplishments of a guy at that went 10-1 at BG, had Utah undeafeated and in the BCS, and won two national championships. I think it's pretty factual, not opinion based, to say that he is easily one of the top three coaches in college football right now.
Wasn't Mattison a co-defensive coordinator? Also, he had a few other really talented defensive players and a guy named Percy Harvin. Is Meyer really only an offensive guru type? I thought he was a more balanced. Nonetheless, I think we can expect some quality defenses.
Also, to the OP. Meyer has won a national championship and has been nationally televised or presented more than RR had been so he has a step up in recruiting. Plus, the team they have at TSIO is young now. I don't think they will have the depth and lack of talent issues we had that plagued us for RR's tenure. I know you want to think on the bright side, but I just don't see Meyer crashing an failing. Sure it might take a year or two to get the program where he wants it to be competitive, but eventually there is a good chance they will be there. I'm not saying they will be better than us, but they will be able to compete.
OSU's Lloyd Carr. He may win games but he won't be able to beat Michigan.
His name was John Cooper.
Of course, if he's Lloyd Carr for OSU I'm sure they'd take going 6-7 against Michigan, winning a ton of Big Ten titles and a national championship.
I'd take that, too. I don't care how Ohio State does against anyone else but us.
John Cooper went 2-10-1 against us. That's a lot worse than 6-7.
To be late era Lloyd Carr instead of just Lloyd Carr.
Even though he is a good coach i don't think he is that good of a recruiter and will have a tough time getting all of the power offense guys from Ohio to play in his spread offense. His classes at Florida were rated great but now we are seeing his last 2-3 in action without Tebow and a lot of them were overrated and the Gators are not very good. It will be an interesting rivalry between Hoke and Urban but we have Greg Mattison who ran Urban's defense in Florida and is the best recruiter in the nation.
Meyer is from the Midwest and understands what it means to coach OSU.
Meyer understands what he doesn't know and is willing to hire someone like Charlie Strong and Mattison as DC and let them coach the defense the way they want.
Meyer has gotten a QB drafted number 1 in the draft and had another win the Heisman.
The difference between winning the SEC and winning the Big East is like the difference between winning in the Big Ten and winning in the MAC
I agree with cp4three2 Meyer proved himself at a couple of D 1 schools and won his way up the coaching ladder to Florida. Hes been very successful at every stop. Meyer is an elite coach. RR is an elite offensive coordinator at best and a good/ok/who really knows head coach? Wishful thinking on the ops part. Having said that I love our staff and what they are doing. Let meyer go to ohio. In Hoke and staff I trust. Beat Ohio!
Meyer would walk into an environment where he would be more or less left alone and allowed to run his system and hire his people, assuming they are available (one is not, of course - his former DC is ours). I think that OSU fans are willing to welcome just about anyone they believe could lead them to a place that they believe should be theirs.
You look at his years without Tebow and the fact he was clearly out schemed by Lloyd Carr and Mike DeBord Urban gets more credit as a genius than is due...although no shame in getting schooled by hof Lloyd. Urban will only be as good as his staff ask Will Muschamp how easy it is to walk into a coaching transition.
.....just turned down my interview request. I don't blame him, given what he walked into.
I will say, however, that I am not worried about Meyer regardless.
Nowhere near the same type of hire.
First, no one is forcing OSU to look for a coach. While Michigan had no choice because Carr was leaving, OSU could have stuck with Fickell if they wanted. However, actively pursued Meyer because they thought it'd better for the program, not because they were backed into a corner to do so.
Secondly, not only does Urban have BCS bowl experience at multiple schools, he has multiple national championships. RichRod only had BCS bowl experience, and getting to the BCS from the Big East isn't really the hardest thing in the world to accomplish.
Thirdly, Meyer's coming from Florida, a top tier football institution, not a 2nd rate BCS conference school like WVU.
Lastly, and most importantly, Urban has ties to OSU. Many of us (unfortunately, myself included) never gave RichRod a chance because we saw him as an outsider. In the words echoed by many U of M fans about our own new coaching situation, a phrase to explain Urban's relationship to OSU is "he gets it."
Is two national titles and the recruiting clout that comes with it.
Meyer at least has a talented spread qb already, and he will likely do a much better job putting together a staff. He's a better coach than Rod and he's done it at an elite program already.
will be as good as his talent which Ohio has plenty of. He will also be able to recruit nationally.
Meyer will also be as good as the assistants that he hires. Quite possibly he will have his choice of assistants that would flock to OSU for the cahnce at that type of program and the abundance of talent in that state. That being I still like our chances against an OSU thats run like a clean program.
Guy has two national titles, a midwest background and success in probably the toughest conference in college football.
People are making objective points about his record of success. You are making subjective statements about his likeability.
Pretty much spot on. The guy's credibility will be questioned by parents, athletes and coaches in living rooms across America.
As far as I can tell he has said nothing about it other than "I have not been offerred or accepted anything."
Oh and regardless of that answer, the fact that he may be a flake has nothing to do with the fact that he is an outstanding football coach with an almost unprecedented record of success.
We have Greg Mattison and Brady Hoke and (arguably) the top recruiting class in the country. I will take that over Urban Meyer and a program in disarray. Did we all think Ohio State would hire Houston Nutt and be mired in mediocrity for 15 years?
I think it was worth talking about once but there shouldn't be a new thread about it everyday. We have a great staff. Ohio will probably assemble at least a good staff themselves. It's whatever, much more interested in Saturday than off field chatter.
Well said, KB. We are Michigan. Ohio is our biggest rival. They're going to be successful based on their legacy and strong backing. With this hire, they will likely handle the coaching transition much more smoothly that we did the last two times. There is nothing we can do about this. All we can do is trust our damn fine current coaching staff, support the program and continue to believe in the players. The stronger our conference and our rivals are, the greater our success against them will stand. Weak attempts to find flaws with this obviously accomplished coach and solid hire are slightly pathetic and un-Wolverine-like. If you're worried we can't compete against this guy, root for a program you think can. Otherwise get in line with the "Bring It On" crowd. This is Michigan, fergodsakes.
Meyer hired great assistant coaches and had a reliable, if not great (at times) defense. He also consistently recruited top classes in a talent rich area. He does resemble RR though. It's spread or bust and not a very running back friendly offense. Still with Tebow and Cam Newton in his offense....
Meyer will be successful at OSU. Not as successful as Buckeye fans think he will be, but successful nonetheless.
Aside from all of the points already made, I feel the circumstances are different in another way
When Carr left, I believe most fans felt his offense had stagnated (ie "lloydball"). We went for RR who was pretty much the anti-Lloyd in every way possible. It was our attempt at "modernizing" our scheme.
With Ohio, I feel Meyer is just the best coach available. While many fans may not like Tresselball, I don't think it's a driving force in their selection criteria.
Les Miles is a closer analogy. Meyer has ties to OSU and he's won a national championship at an SEC school.
I think he's had a little more success than RR did under his belt when he was hired at Michigan...two NCs and numerous BCS bowls. Ergo, he is probably a better and at least more respected nationally coach than Rodriguez was at the time he was hired at Michigan (None of this is intended to bash RR, FYI)
Ohio fans already had to sit through this year. So it's not like they don't really want a change. Imagine Michigan fans having to sit through Ron English, only Ron English being a lame duck from the start and having some of his best players suspended. So yeah, they're ready for what's next there.
I could see Meyer having a little tougher time recruiting at Ohio than he did at Florida, but he'll get guys. If I'm Gene Smith that's who I want to hire, there's definitely not a better available coach.
Someone please tell Brian that google is putting fucking Ohio State gear on the banners right now and I am pissed the fuck off because I just verped my moms awesome Thanksgiving dinner.
1. Expect more Gholston-esque play: Brandon Spikes attempts to gouge out an opponents eyes, and Meyer gives him a half-game suspension.
2. Meyer won with Zook's recruits.
3. Tebow leaves, Mullen leaves, and Florida produces a 7-5 result.
4. 33 Gator players arrested, and that's what was reported to the press... Did they report Cam Newton's problems in that 33?
5. Did I mention Mattison was the D coordinator of the firsr National Championship team?
6. Meyer has a history of being a whiner and overly emptional, not characteristics of a successful coach.
Chad Henne leaves, Mike Hart leaves, we go 3-9
Terelle Pryor leaves, a buttload of seniors graduate etc, and they go 6-5
Your point is stupid. Every program goes through a down season. Except Nick Saban but that's because his kids are on roids.
Zook couldn't win with Zook's recruits.
Meyer's second NC was with his own recruits, and Mattison had left by then.
Meyer led Utah to an undefeated season and a BCS bowl win, the first ever for a team from a non-AQ conference.
Yeah, Ohio will never stand for a morally-bankrupt coach even if he does win games. Real bastion of integrity down there
Urban Meyer actually understands that defense reperesents half the game, and thought it important enough to bring in top-notch assistants and recruits.
Rich Rodriguez thought it was a good idea to employ Tony Gibson.
End of discussion.
Did you hear that Meyer is contacting various former OSU players and influential alumni to be sure they are all in for him? Do you think that RR's experience at Michigan has become a lesson to any future coaches at places with long and rich football traditions about what they need to do to be successful?
Meyer probably went right out and bought 3 and Out and has carefully read it by what he has done and what his actions are right now and going forward!
Source on this? It would be a proof-like substance regarding his commitment to taking the job.
Id hire him...2 national titles where one of them was against me...but I like our chances...Greg Mattison! That defense for Florida was lights out...Just ask Troy Smith and then Ray Lewis! Id love to see McNamara from San Diego, CA come in for a visit and grab a commit! It would be great to feature the Senior Mr. Koger for 4-5 catches and 1 td saturday!!! GO BLUE! I hope there are more blue than red there tommorrow. Come on Season Ticket Holders, go to the game!!!
Ohio State 14
Urban better figure out that defense is more than half the game, because in Big Ten country it is everything. Its everything to give Denard that many opportunities. The only criticism I had was answered last game, if there not open use your legs to run! Do it this game too please! He does that and we win!
Come on man. He did really well at Iowa State!
GERG and Wile E. Charlie come to mind.
Meyer has had undefeated seasons and won national championships in the SEC.
Rodriguez's very best seasons included losses to South Florida and Pittsburgh.
Their resumes are not quite as similar as you suggest.
Just stop with the cupboard bare already . . . . . The main difference is that Meyer is capable and willing to adapt to the players on the roster, and Miller will fit what he wants to do. That being said, if anyone thinks that he's going to romp over whatever that division is called, they are simply wrong.
Meyer coached in the SEC, won two national championships, and coached a Heisman Trophy winner. He also had a perfect season at Utah before he went to Florida.
There is no comparison between Rich Rodriguez and Urban Meyer.
There is no comparison
In terms of offensive coaching they're comparable for sure.
In terms of defensive coaching, Urban Meyer hired Greg Mattison, Rich Rodriguez hired Greg Robinson and Tony Gibson.
do you really think that with $650K and a multi-year contract that RR would have been hiring GERG?
Are you out of it enough to actually think that Rodriguez did a search and of all the candidates available and said, 'GERG is the guy I want running this defense'?
With no contract and a ~$250K budget, GERG is exactly what you are going to get every time.
Mattison, or someone like him, should have been made possible 2-3 years ago, as soon as Casteel didn't make the move.
With a $250K salary, GERG was one of the 20 highest-paid defensive coordinators in the country. The idea that he was the only guy out there willing to accept that is crazy. We were able to lure Scott Shafer away from Stanford one year earlier for less money than that.
The way Shafer was treated - undermined by his own positional coaches and then forced out after one season - almost certainly affected our DC search more than the actual money involved. (Incidentally, if your premise is correct - that no one better than GERG would accept a $250K salary - then RR was nuts to shove Shafer out the door in the first place.)
For some reason I don't think Ohio will have an internal rebellion and continued bickering as to whether Urban is a true "Ohio Man."
did not think this through.
They would, if they hired a coach that tried to rein in the out-of-control booster behavior. Then you'd be hearing that "he just doesn't get it."
This is wishful thinking by an OP who obviously has not done any research on the subject at all.
has been an SEC coach and has won multiple BCS national championships and is widely credited as having excellent personnel judgment, particularly with defensive coordinators (Greg Mattison, Charlie Strong). He also knows his next job very well, as he is originally from the same state.
The other coached in the worst BCS automatic-qualifier conference and had no experience coaching at a big-time school. Many of the things that led to his professional demise at his most recent job stemmed from being clueless about how to properly coach at a top-level program, i.e. manage politics, media, etc. Also, notable for flubbing 2 defensive hiring choices (shouldn't have fired Schafer, should never have hired GERG).
Rodriguez is a great offensive mind, but his professional credentials in 2007 don't begin to compare to Meyer's in 2011.
Meyer is not going to be doing much learning on the job at OSU, and his national reputation is such that he can probably have his pick of the talented coordinators in CFB.
I'm not scared of Meyer, but to pretend that he is not a worthy foe and a serious coup for OSU is self-delusion. The man can coach very well, and has an incredbile track record from Bowling Green to lifting crystal footballs (notice that "s") over his head while at Florida.
Here's to hoping we make him wish he had stayed in retirement!
To compare Meyer to Rodriguez you'd have to look at Meyer's Florida record (his first big jump) and Rodriguez' at Michigan. And of course there is no comparison.
He has coached at OSU before.
Also, Luke Fickell Happened.
Also, Urban Meyer won 2 NC in a short span in the (most beloved) SEC.
Also, Braxton Miller would really work in his preferred offensive scheme.
That said, the health issues and the I quit, Wait, I didn't quit thing is super weird, and I have a hard time believing this is for realsies. All the sidenotes aside, there's no reason for there to be a backlash to his hiring.
FIRE URB FRAUD
This is a dumb post. Think these things through before embarrassing yourself.
Urban Meyer's track record is 10x that of RichRod's. Hoping that Meyer will fail in the same manner is stupid idea at best
...even Ohio State would know better than to turn feral on their new coach with fangs bared and daggers out, just because he might change a few things about how the offense runs, nor would they permit others to do so. Then again, they already run a modern offense, so perhaps a non-issue. Apparently, for better or worse, the Athletic Department and the football program there actually have a common goal of success and winning games. At M it seems more like personal goals, like naming one's successor or preserving outdated schemes, or even just having someone with the right accent as HC, would seem more important.
OSU fans certainly wouldn't lend their support to a journalist/editor combo that use a local rag to perpetuate a jihad clearly seeking to slander the head coach with a baseless, exaggerated claims......said combo would be run out of town on a rail (even if they happened to be right, see Herbie's new address in Tennessee as evidence of that).
Their 'fans' probably won't be laying in wait for him to make any sort of minor faux pas in regard to OSU and their tradition and thus hang on his every word ready to pounce as if he had just made a statement to the effect that the team philosophy will now be focused as much as on football as it is on turning the players into fine, upstanding young Satan worshippers that participate in the community through infant sacrifice and rampant drug use.
Meyer will be provided more than $250K/no-contract budget for hiring key coordinators, especially if it is clear that one side of the ball is in dire straits.
In short, i think they will support him, so if he is given what he needs, he could very well do great things in the Big 10. We shall see.
There are some big differences. Meyer has won national titles coming out of the "best" confrence in college football. Lets be honest, the sec is a really good confrence none the less. Meyer is what I would consider a god recruiter. Rrod was good at recruiting but nothing like Meyer. Im actually a bit worried how our recruiting is going to do once meyer sets foot at OSU especially considering that we have to share the big ten foot print with Nebraska as well. I love brady hoke but the cache with his name isnt even in the same ball park as Meyer nationally, yet. A few good seasons by hoke can shorten the difference. I would say meyer is smart in knowing he doesnt know defence and will bring in a proven d coordinator to run his own system. There are no guarantees but I think meyer is as good a bet to be successful as anyone at OSU. Ive been wrong before, I thought RR would be great at UM.
hit the post button twice, sorry.