META (sort of): An appeal for more objective analysis

Submitted by ifis on

I appreciate that everyone is upset with the state of the program.  I am too.  However, I feel like the boards are getting tainted by negative emotion.  Can we please keep doing analysis alongside the (justified) anger and frustration?

For example, I thought there was a lot of development in the Rutgers game, especially along the o-line.  Michigan owned the line of scrimmage and ran the ball at will on Rutgers in the 4th quarter.  Green, Smith, and Devin were tearing it up on the ground.  It might have been the first glimpse of actual "manball" that we've seen in a long time.  I am not saying that it was.  I am saying that it was noteworthy and it is hardly being discussed at all.  It also seemed like pass pro was a lot better.  There were plays were Devin had 5-6 seconds to pass, running backs were effectively picking up blocks, etc.  Often, it seemed like Devin panicked (understandably, given his experience) unnecessarily when protection was ok or good.  I haven't seen any thing resembling a thorough discussion of these points.

To be clear, I am as upset as everyone else.  I dropped way too much money to fly to Notre Dame and I watched the debacles against Utah and Minnesota.  I don't like the fact that we lost a close game to Rutgers.  However, I saw what looked like development in several key phases of the game against Rutgers and I come to MgoBlog to hear smart people say smart things about that type of thing.  Threads about being upset are fine, but can we also keep analyzing the actual game please?  This isn't about "Hoke is doing a good job" or "Hoke is terrible", I just want to read smart things about Michigan football in additon to cathartic bitching.

umumum

October 5th, 2014 at 7:52 PM ^

his point wasn't that we could have won--it was that our rushing attack was dominant.  If anything DG's run should be attributed to the passing attack--cuz that was what we were trying to do.  Offensive line execution had nothing to do with it.  But again, hilarious when you mischaracterize the point.

Magnus

October 5th, 2014 at 8:42 PM ^

If a player is given a run/pass option on a given play - which is partly the point of a bootleg/waggle - then I don't see why it should be removed from the rushing attack's totals. If Gardner had turned a zone read packaged with a bubble into a keeper for a 19-yard touchdown, would we want to remove it from the rushing totals? Absolutely not, because it's part of the running game!

No offense to you as an individual, but I think so many people are wrapped up in "WHY DON'T WE RUN A SPREAD?!?!?!" that they forget there are ways for the QB to use his legs from under center, too. They might not be as effective overall, but they can certainly be effective in certain cases - including Gardner's two rushing touchdowns on Saturday night. Meanwhile, Michigan is also mixing in zone read options and used power read options in the past.

ifis

October 5th, 2014 at 5:20 PM ^

but my point is not that it was "manball" or that we should be overly proud of it.  My point is that in the 4th quarter, it looked like Michigan's O wore out Rutgers D, our line dominated the point of attack, and our backs ran at will.  Yes it was against Rutgers (sigh), but we have had a hard time doing that on Akron in the not too distant past and I haven't seen us do it against anyone in a long time.  Furthermore, Hamilton seemed pretty quiet all night.  I thought he would tear us apart.  I just want to read what other knowledgable football people thought about these points.  They are not discussed on the front page or in the comments I read (admittedly, I haven't read all of them).

 

UMForLife

October 5th, 2014 at 5:34 PM ^

It will be definitely fun to talk about the game. I guess the issue is "what is the point?". If we are 4-1 and we messed up a game because our front line didn't develop and it suddenly showed signs, I am sure everyone will be onboard with your idea.

But.... that is not the case. It is very hard to be objective and talk about the game in the front page.

You are handling this way better than me (and probably many on the board).

mGrowOld

October 5th, 2014 at 5:24 PM ^

Here in Ohio I am flying my Michigan flag proudly from the flagpole in my front yard.  When my neighbors ask me why I simply point to the game stats and ask "Who do you think DOMINATED this game - who?   Don't let points scored influence your opinion - look at the stats that matter: time of possession, rushing yards and penalty yardage.

I have moved past the trivial nature of the final scored (like Funchess) and moved to the higher levels of game conscienceness.

MilkSteak

October 5th, 2014 at 6:48 PM ^

Over here I have a few jokers that like to ask me what's going on with Michigan these days and I just tell it to them straight - "We've done the whole winning football games thing. We're focusing on the real important thing now, practice." It's so over their head it's hilarious.

The fact is we have won the most games in the history of college football. We're done with that phase. So when OSU or MSU fans come around bragging about their exploits on Saturdays I laugh because I know that they have no idea what's happening in Ann Arbor from Sunday-Friday. That's where the real work happens. I've heard from a source that Hoke has guys running sub 2 second 40's and throwing the ball from their own endzone, running the length of the field, and catching their own pass in the opposite endzone. I read somewhere that Funk has taught a couple guys on the team to levitate a few inches off the turf. Most impressive is that Hoke has helped something like 64% of the team to reach Nirvana, finally releasing them from the cycle of reincarnation.

Practice is where it's at guys, don't let anyone tell you different. When your Buckeye neighbor asks in his fake sympathetic tone "What's up with you guys?? Why haven't you fired anyone yet??", just give him a wink and say, "I don't know, I think we need to clear house." For we are Michigan Wolverines. We have transcended college football. We are everything and we are nothing.

justingoblue

October 5th, 2014 at 5:15 PM ^

The best thing for people looking to talk football to do is to create a thread talking about football.

If we end up with a situation where an OL dissection thread turns into a "best way to protest DB" discussion then we'll deal with it as mods, but I think the redundant threads about new coaches or firing everyone are already getting taken down.

LSAClassOf2000

October 5th, 2014 at 5:33 PM ^

Agreed, and I would add as a general note to the board:

A few people have voiced the OP's concern in the last 4-5 days, but yeah, the best way to do it - and a few have - is to put forth a thread with the parameters of the discussion you want to have being clearly defined. If you do that and someone wants to invade it with "Fire Brandon / Fire Hoke / Fire The Guy Who Served My Steak Medium Well", let the mods know and we can, umm, have a chat with them if necessary. Yes, have a chat. 

RagingBean

October 5th, 2014 at 5:21 PM ^

Objective analysis in anything other than a scientific or statistical sense in a canard. No person's opinions or onsights are free of their own biases, blind-spoots, "agendas," and pre-conceptions. So...no. We cannot have more objective analysis this side of Bill Connolly's advanced stats.

mjf34g

October 5th, 2014 at 5:42 PM ^

This is why I want this whole Staff (including the S&C team) GONE. I want no glimmer of hope which will only delay the inevitable firing of this Clown show.

And you forgot to mention, all this happening in a garbage Conference. I want Michigan to DOMINATE this Conference and hopefully by doing that compete for National Championships. That should be the ONLY goal. If it takes a total collapse to accelerate the needed changes so be it. Its gonna take some pain but lets get it over with.

Tater

October 5th, 2014 at 5:37 PM ^

Here's your "objective analysis:"  There is a dumpster fire happening in the Big House.  I wish somebody would put it out.

Is that objective enough?

MonkeyMan

October 5th, 2014 at 10:23 PM ^

a little more to the point- when you come home, see fire trucks, and stare at your own house burning down you lose interest in analyzing how it is falling. I think the awfulness of the moment is taking over and this is perfectly human.

You analyze a team and a coach when you are wondering how they can improve in the future. When its obvious the coach will be gone then there is little point anymore since a new system will be in place and a new direction set.

Unless you are considering a career as a coroner!

mGrowOld

October 5th, 2014 at 6:29 PM ^

You are being mean Mr Dudeness.  Really, really mean.

I't not his fault he's smaller and less powerful than the players he's up against.  You can't blame him for not having as good of coaching as the players he's expected to block and you surely cannot fault him for lack the necessary technique and skill sets required to keep defense players from tackling the skill players behind him.

Negative people are just so negative.

991GT3

October 5th, 2014 at 6:09 PM ^

is not a good team despite their record. They haven't beaten anyone considered worthy or good. In many respects they are like Michigan. They can be the weak but not the strong or relatively strong. Their coach was on the hotseat at the beginning of the season.

That said, fear not; Brandon will retain Hoke for another year citing improvement on many facets of the game regardless whether they won or not.

The FannMan

October 5th, 2014 at 6:19 PM ^

I think this may have been better handled in an e-mail to Brian.  If you sent him a reasonable e-mail, and I think your post was reasonably stated, I bet he would give you a reasonable response.  He may not agree with you, but I hope he would consider your view.

You also have to allow for the fact that the writers are fans too.  They are gonna need to vent like the rest of us.  That really is want the first 24 hours are for.

If you have football stuff to talk about, just start that thread.  If you see good things, just say so.  You will get negged for going against the grain, but who cares?  The points don't really matter.  People will also disagree with you, with varying degrees of Internet-Tough-Guy doucheyness.  So get ready to ignore some commenters and engage with others. You can't put up a thread and say this is only for those who agree with me.

Incidentialy, I think that I agree with at least some of the football points that you make.  My impression was that the backs did do a better job of picking up blitzers.  I will have to wait for the UFR to be sure, but my impression was that Green and Smith had improved in that area.  If that is true, its a good thing.

We did have success pulling OL (Kalis crushed some dude on one play!).  That too was a good thing.

However, these improvements are such baby steps compared to where we need to be.  Finally, it is hard to look at positives and talk about them given the current state of things.  It feels like rearranging deck chairs on the Tiatanic.

[Edit - Just saw you did start another post.]

 

Badkitty

October 5th, 2014 at 6:23 PM ^

I was having breakfast with the family this morning when enlightenment hit me regarding why this team is so bad and why our record is so awful.  So I decided to share my measured insights with y'all, writ large in pancakes......

 

You Only Live Twice

October 5th, 2014 at 6:28 PM ^

what you're trying to do here ifis.  A lot of people clearly aren't in the mood for it.  Therefore you're likely to get less comments than the more negative threads. 

In the spirit of trying to reply specifically to the focus of your thread:  I too was encouraged by several things about the Rutgers game. I won't talk Xs and Os cause I can't,  but in answer to your OP, I was looking for this:

--Devin Gardner.  He was there and he was all THAT.  2 touchdowns! and speaking of..

--Touchdowns.  Finally!  on the road!  In the endzone!  I was beginning to think this was a touchdownless season.  Team needed to get over this hump in the worst way.  4th quarter touchdown, even better. 

--Team unity - if you'll allow me the same opportunity to project my meaningless emotions on the players just as everyone else does:  It seemed the toxic atmosphere in Ann Arbor may have re-invigorated the team spirit.  They were playing football, like there was nothing else they wanted to be doing that evening.  It killed me that the refs took away the possible win at the end but damn it, the team's excitement was contagious.

--Staying in the game despite setbacks.  Finally, finally started to see this.  A missed PI call in was it Utah?  and they got so easily demoralized.   Last night - bad calls, the team stayed in the game.  Rutgers scores points, they stayed in the game.  Until the very end they STAYED IN THE GAME!! 

Hoping they can continue to build on the momentum even without the win they deserved.

BOX House

October 5th, 2014 at 6:36 PM ^

Subjective analysis is, in my opinion, what makes Mgoblog great. Objective analysis is widely available at Mgoblue.com or ESPN, but if you're looking for a source with a positive spin on Michigan right now - well, good luck. 

AlbanyBlue

October 5th, 2014 at 6:38 PM ^

The only thing remotely negative I'll say about this place is that I miss the UFRs when they're not put up. I'm sure it takes many hours to do them, though, so c'est la vie. They are my favorite part of the board, though, so thanks for when you do them, Brian.

Wolfman

October 5th, 2014 at 7:20 PM ^

pad level by OLmen is still terrible and much of what you saw last night was the result of simply overpowering much lighter and weaker defenders, i.e. Big Will in high school.  This is not good.

I finally saw Derrick Green break an ankle tackle but again probably the result of the lighter players getting a little tired by time the 4th qtr rolled along. Wide receivers, while seeming to gain a bit of separation finally were still standing still when Devin was struggling to find an open man instead of working back toward him. I again saw no adjustments to our porous secondary at half-time not unlike ND, adjustments that should be make with a time out and in the flow of the game but continued the entire season. (Einstien's definition of insanity insert here.) I thought the seal was clapping in much better rhythm on the sidelines. And what really pisses me off the most is that Dave Brandon had to know Brady had incompetent assistants based on how much film he supposedly watches and simply learning from people named Hanlon and Schembechler, even though he was a member of the meat squad throughout his days here as a student. His next promotion should be free tickets to any junior high coach that is able to teach proper blocking fundamentals and separation by the wide receivers. That would be on the Offensive side of the ball. I'd give my middle nut for a coach that could teach proper pass coverage. He could fill the entire stadium with position coaches that are better than ours, therefore never having to worry about the big house being empty. And although that might sound bitter, it is my analysis as this date. Thank you.

blueblueblue

October 5th, 2014 at 7:51 PM ^

There is a tipping point at which nobody really needs (or cares about) quantitative analyses to help us understand what we are seeing on the field. At this point its a tired exercise. The incompetence is so systemic that the amount of progress by the OL is just seems beside the point. That's the reason the concussion was such an issue - it was a confirmatory sign of systemic incompetence. 

klctlc

October 5th, 2014 at 8:56 PM ^

You hit it on the nose Bronx.  RichRod's first year was expected to be bad, maybe not that bad, but bad. 

This year was not expected to be bad.  So this is uncharted territory for this 49 year old M fan.  Last year sucked, but the OL was so bad and we could blame borges. It was a blip on the radar. This year is totally unexpected. In the past I have anxiously read the ufr to pick up nuggets of improvement from the players, followed any recruiting gossip to see how bright the horizon was. Now it just seems so bleak. God damn it I am not used to M being happy with improvement against Utah, MN and Rutgers!!!!!!  It makes no sense, it is truly cats and dogs living together, end of world type stuff (in my warped fan mind).I really don't want to read recruiting and UFR's right now, because any improvement is so meaningless.

Brian is not a coach, he appears to be self educated on football, but I have learned a ton from his writing, I tend to agree with his biases and if I don't he, forces me to think about my position.  Fine either way.

Regarding UFR's, personally I don't care, if other people (customers) want to glean nuggets about this poorly coached team.  Great. Enjoy.  News bulletin + our OL is below average, DG is not a QB but is great athlete who represents the university extremely well and Mattison is overrated. 

One last point, Magnus, Brian and BiSB, thanks for having your disagreement in public. Made for interesting reading. You all give us all so much for free and obviously have strong opinions.  Thanks.  You guys rock.