Meta: more questions on off-season-off-topic subjects

Submitted by StephenRKass on

So, it seems fairly well established that during the off season, when Michigan related sports content is lacking, posts on different topics (cars, pet peeves, favorite meals, worst meals, etc., etc., etc.) are tolerated and even appropriate sometimes.

The list of banned topics is fairly short:  stay away from politics, religion, bewbs, and anything personal about Michigan athletes.

I'm curious about whether or not it is appropriate to talk about race issues. This morning, I saw a link from a college student who attends my church. The link was to a viral post by Colgate student Jenny Lundt, who was commenting on white privilege. (you can easily find this if you wish by googling "jenny lundt." Her initial comments went up about a week ago.)

The topic of race, and white privilege, is important. I think there is a subtext on race and white privilege that is very much part of the world inhabited by athletes. It is a topic that is rarely talked about, although I'm sure it is something every athlete is aware of. I do remember seeing something about race and building bridges in Michigan's locker room several years ago, when Hoke was still coach.

My question is whether or not a topic like this works at mgoblog. It is relevant. It isn't politics or bewbs or religion. We're in the middle of the off season. And yet . . . I wonder if we can have a civilized discussion on this. Or whether it is too fraught with danger. I can see arguments going both for and against this kind of topic.

EDIT:  Well, the board has spoken, and common sense prevails. While not technically spelled out as off limits, the board isn't the place to discuss hot button issues that are important societally. Which includes race issues. I can accept that. After all, I come here to read about Michigan sports.

Having said that, I will have to seek out better places for dialogue and discussion. I miss the late night discussions in the dorms. Maybe that doesn't happen any more. But I loved that you could have debate with guys on your floor who felt very passionately, take different positions, and still relate as friends the next day. The problem with some forums is that they are either echo chambers with people who have the same take you do, or echo chambers with trolls seeking to provoke. Honestly, I'm not looking for either of those kind of discussions.

war-dawg69

May 19th, 2017 at 7:54 PM ^

Anyone know what white priveledge is and where I can get some?. I really do not remember getting anything extra being white and really quite the opposite. ie.AA. Everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this country. Not everyone is afforded the same family life or structure and there isn't anything that can be done about that unless somehow you can choose your parents. I do believe the handouts in this country were put in place for political votes and as long as they exist people will accept them, continue to make excuses and weaken the country. That has zero to do with race, but will segregate none the less because it will not force people to better themselves and change their social standing. The thing is if you are poor you can almost get a free higher education and there is the balance. Everyone has opportunities and if you choose not to better yourself you can take your excuses somewhere else. I have been around people of different races more than most on here and of that I am positive. I really never paid much attention to it to be quite honest, but one thing I know for sure is people of different ethniticities, ideoligies and working class will always self segregate for the most part. I have learned that there are some really good people in all instances and having experienced racial hatred myself several times I do know it exists in all forms. The thing is if you won't to wallow in self pity and make excuses, good luck to you as life will pass you by and show you no mercy. Allthough I can't stand excuses I will always be accepting of good hearted people of all sorts because of the spirit within me. Racial hatred is ugly as is any hatred there is but from my experiences the ones who are making an issue of it are the most racial and biggest haters of all. There are jerks in all races, creeds and color  and to me it is that simple.

1of12MattDamons

May 20th, 2017 at 3:14 PM ^

it's hilarious so many think white priveledge is still a thing. Wealth priveledge is definitely real, though. Unfortunately this is not a subject that can truly be discussed on this blog without getting "political", because, well, it kind of is a political issue afterall.

PoseyHipster

May 19th, 2017 at 4:00 PM ^

While I agree that this could be a topic for a well-reasoned, apolitical discussion, there are some pretty well-entrenched beliefs on this topic that break down on political lines and I fear that it would turn into a free-for-all pretty quickly.

ElBictors

May 19th, 2017 at 4:20 PM ^

It is a documented and written about issue.  That there were racial divisions within the lockerroom at one point and that is no longer the case.  So it's not as OT as the broad topic of race relations.

I remember during my time in the early-90s at the CCRB, there were three distinct basketball courts for pick up hoops -- not by design or policy, but by simple practice.  There was the "Black" court ...the "Frat" court and the Asian/Indian court.

Complete self-segregation by the students themselves.  Same thing in the SQ cafeteria.

amphibious1

May 19th, 2017 at 4:02 PM ^

I would love nothing more than to have an honest, open  and cathartic conversation about race and white privilege. I do find it important.

But, I fear that inevitably the thread would go to shit because of humans behind keyboards. There are always those who just want to ruin it for everyone else.

Blue in Paradise

May 19th, 2017 at 5:26 PM ^

My parents are from Italy and I am a dual citizen.  I will say that when I was 25 (in 1998), I went to check out an apartment complex not far from Birmingham.  I had made an appointment and then brought my girlfriend at the time (she is of Afro-Cuban descent).  The lady freaked out when she saw us and basically pushed us off the complex.

I didn't realize what had happened but my girlfriend figured it out after we left.  I went back there to complain but the lady wasn't there and the manager was apologetic - not sure if they did anything about it.

This will be my only "serious" post :)

StephenRKass

May 19th, 2017 at 5:39 PM ^

That's fascinating. I live in the far western 'burbs of Chicago. We always laugh about the tourists who come to town expecting to see mafia enforcers carrying machine guns. Having said that, I live in an area with LOTS of people having Italian heritage. There's a parish that still has mass in Italian. The local high school still offers Italian as a foreign language option. There are a ton of kids named Giovanni, Francesca, Marco, Antonio, Elena, Sofia, etc., etc., etc.

With many recent immigrants from India, Pakistan, Mexico, the Philippines, Poland, Russia, and Central America, this area is more diverse than many. Next door to my office is a Philippine grocery, across the street an Indopak grocer, down the street, a huge Italian grocery. Near our home is a large Mexican grocery. The church where I am pastor has folks from India, Romania, Malaysia, China, Nigeria, Liberia, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Guatemala, along with black Americans. I work with a former Palestinian terrorist who is now doing Christian outreach with the immigrant community. There are 3 different mosques within a mile or two, both Sunni and Shia. Along with worship spaces for Sihk and Hindu and Vietnamese Catholic. So race and culture and economic status and religion are very fluid here where I live.

Lou MacAdoo

May 19th, 2017 at 10:20 PM ^

Damn that's America right there. There are people that have been trying to prevent what your neighborhood has become for centuries. Ingnorance and hate will never win. It'll always be defeated by acceptance and understanding.

Zarniwoop

May 20th, 2017 at 12:46 PM ^

I applied for a bank account at a local bank in Squirrel Hill in Pittsburgh (where I lived at the time). This is a strongly jewish community.

I was told my request had been denied and I had to call a number to find out why.

I went 6 blocks outside my neighborhood and was immediately accepted at another bank.

I cannot prove that I was discriminated against, and I never called the number.

I was a young kid and just said "well, fuck you then" and moved on with my short attention span. I wish to this day I had called the number. Its entirely possible that there was a logical explanation.

xtramelanin

May 19th, 2017 at 7:12 PM ^

from personal experience, there were at least italians in GP in the 60's.  i dated a number of girls who were, as the article puts it, swarthy and lived there.  ironically, two of the girls had to stop dating me, per their italian fathers, specifically b/c i was not italian.  

i also played football against their teams and they had a number of  football players whose last names ended in a vowel.  indeed, if i'm not mistaken at least a few of those players from my era notably ended up in the federal pen.  

i think don is a GP guy, he might be able to fill in. 

 

Blue in Paradise

May 19th, 2017 at 7:32 PM ^

Before that, there were probably a few but not very many.  That being said, a ton of Italians, including my family, lived on the East side of Detroit bordering GP.  I had a cousin living on Bishop Drive right off of Mack into the 90s and he went to school and played for GP soccer teams.

amphibious1

May 20th, 2017 at 8:02 AM ^

Sinatra was born in 1915 and spent his life being considered white. If a black man of the same era had Sinatra's attributes, we would have never known who he was except for the fact he was an asshole.

Sinatra got every benefit of the doubt because he "looked the part." Though maybe not as privileged as a Rockafeller, he was far more privileged than Sammy Davis Jr. Sinatra could actually walk into a restaurant through the front door, have a seat, and pay for a meal from money earned on mediocre talent.

Gulogulo37

May 19th, 2017 at 10:28 PM ^

I don't the article is wrong but Blue's description of it. It's a point system and Southern Europeans weren't the worst off. Blacks and Asians were barred. Very tough for Jews, then kinda tough for S Europeans, a little easier for Poles.

Blue in Paradise

May 20th, 2017 at 2:21 AM ^

But calm down with grandstanding.

For people born after 1970, we really didn't see any of this with our own eyes. And they don't teach this shit in history class - at least not when I was in school. We never even learned about the multiple race riots in Detroit (1863, 1943 and 1967). We learned that it was only Southern segregationists that did that kind of stuff, not the folks up here in the north.

Bando Calrissian

May 20th, 2017 at 2:44 AM ^

Speak for yourself--I learned about all that stuff in school, not to mention over the dinner table from family and friends. And I was born after 1970. And if you grew up in the Detroit area, Grosse Pointe's issues weren't well-kept secrets. Heck, Greeks invented stuff like philosophy thousands of years ago, and even they weren't allowed to buy houses in certain neighborhoods out there.

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

xtramelanin

May 20th, 2017 at 6:48 AM ^

sometimes people learn things that are inaccurate - this just happens to be one of those times for you, but you should be glad since the reality is better than the negative stereotype you seem to hang on to rather tightly.  we strayed into the GP's and dated all manner of girls there, and i can remember at least 5 that i dated that don't fit your after-the-fact narrative.  one of those girls now lives up north and i have done some work for her sisters.

then there is the sports thing which also cuts directly against this false narrative of yours.  some of the names i remember (it's been 40+ years, so give me a break, and on the spellings too) would include toccos, giacalones, carratos, formanczyeks, gagliano, and palazollo.  i will say that in my era i don't remember meeting/seeing/playing against anyone in GP with XtraMelanin, but all things change. 

 

 

rob f

May 20th, 2017 at 10:45 AM ^

that 'XtraMelanin' is one of the most uncommon last names ever. No wonder you couldn't remember anyone in GP named that.

/s

But I bet you also didn't see many Polish last names the likes of which I grew up surrounded with, either (west side of Grand Rapids). Some surnames went about 5 or 6 letters​ deep before you found the first vowel and yet were much more common (to me, anyway) than 'XtraMelanin'.

ATC

May 21st, 2017 at 3:47 AM ^

inaccurate things..... case in point: whitetail deer harvest APR's (antler point restrictions). In the 80's, guys (and girls as well) believed that APRs increased population antler size in subsequent years.....(some still believe this to be the key tenant)... turns out, genetics and available browse variety are the dominating determinants....smh.