this may be of some local interest
You shut up.
To each their own opinion I suppose.
what opinions are like.
Everyone just loves to bitch, it's not a Michigan exclusive thing. This happens in just about every sport, I mean it's kind of what blogging is all about. Everyone is happy we won but there's still a lot of stuff to work on
Just not an active enough poster to make top-level threads about it. Thanks for calling everyone out though. It's about time someone stepped up and said something. Hope a lot of fans are ashamed of their attitudes today towards a 21 year old kid with a heart of gold.
"It's about time someone stepped up and said something."
I don't recall anyone starting threads about it....
But there's been alot of us complaining about the constant whining and negativity.
Earlier in the week I predicted SDSU would be labeled a "cupcake" after we beat them convincingly (after all of the hand wringing all week)... I thought it would take until Mon at least (guess not).
I agree with the sentiment, but it's always unfair to declare someone hypocritical because some other fan thought the game was going to be tight.
here, but SDSU is NOT an above average team, at least not today.
"...at least not today"
You know, you could attribute that phrase to our team. Our offense and defense played well, forcing turnovers, big gaping holes, 3 and outs, etc.
Just because our opposing team looked bad, doesn't mean they aren't bad. I would rather think we made them look bad.
what I stated earlier then, they are NOT an above average team as the OP noted.
They did very well last year, and didn't have too much attrition.
Hillman was 10th in rushing last year with over 100 yd/gm Lindley was 7th in passing for almost 300 yd/gm
They lost some key receivers, but Lockett, Denso and Escobar are making up for it.
So I disagree, this is a good SDSU team. We were applying pressure to Lindley all day, we shut down the run, and we were creating massive holes in their defense. We played well and made them look bad.
Has anyone noticed that the four teams we have played 1. Appeared to play poorly when they played us. 2. Miraculously seem to be able to get their act together after they are done playing us. Transitivity implies Vietnam should be the current world hegemon, but after watching WMU give IL fits, things look not so bad. 9-3 looks pretty doable. That's way better than 7-5.
We have given up only 20 total points to non-Notre Dame opponents.
If I had been told that before the season I would have said, "Not possible."
We should be be absolutely ecstatic about our play so far, and yet you have people bitching.
I get it, Denard's passing ability will be a problem in Big Ten play if it doesn't improve, but can we at least enjoy the win for more than 5 minutes before the bitchfest?
can we give Denard and Hoke et al. the confidence that it still can improve with practice and experience? I mean, we're not playing world beaters next week. It's a work in progress, he will improve. Have a little faith people...it's not like we didn't know Denard would be shaky at the passing game.
4 games with a new OC. Breathe. Denard is still the QB, he will get better at passing.
than Minnesota ca. 2011. (Not what they were in 1941.)
I believe this is what you're looking for:
IVE HAD IT WITH DICKROD!!! WE NEED MOAR MICHIGAN MENNNNNNNN!!!!!
But, if people can't be ridulously over reactive on the inter-webz, where can they be?
On the serious side, I don't disagree with your sentiment, but c'mon, you don't expect to get anywhere with logic on a blog do you?
Can we bitch about kicking?
Well, if you like, the guy sitting behind me in Section 24 said on the last drive when we were on about the 16 or 17 of SDSU, "Well another 15 yards and we'll be in field goal range."
Haha, yes. I see no problem with that.
I was crying tears of joy over the touchback.
Bitching about bitching is so elegantly recursive.
Quite the strange loop, that one.
What happened? Was at the game for a change.
I don't think that any opinions should be censored. My opinion is that we should relax a bit before reverting to our MGoneWild status. It runs counter to what I had been seeing on the site, so I decided to post my opinion on here.
Will the mods start deleting posts that disagree with my stance? Unlikely, even if I suggested they should. So just consider my take a strong contrast to all the pissing and moaning, and commence with the pissing and moaning if it suits.
While I hate bitching directed at the kids (e.g. "Denard or ____ suck"), and abstract bitching about a decent win is wrong, I also am not a fan of "shut up everyone we won so just enjoy it and I'm sure the coaches will fix the problems." There are legitimate, very legitimate, reasons for concern as we head into the conference season, and this blog is the precise place to discuss them. I remember clearly after the UMASS, BGSU and Indiana games the last couple years, people bemoaning the problems apparent then, and people saying the exact same thing to them as in your OP--we will fix them, relax. Some otherwise sober and intelligent long time blog members even discussed how many FBS transfers played on UMASS so our poor performance wasn't as bad as it looked. Well it was, as we know.
I'm not saying this game was like UMASS. The defense has shown real potential to now be respectable. We have a different set of concerns than "OMG we will never stop anyone ever ever ever" like last year. But passing and offensive line concerns are real, and there is not a thing wrong with discussing them.
There's a difference between 'discussing' and throwing a 'whine' party. This board has blown up with the latter... I agree with the OP - we just won the game, a game a ton of people thought would be much closer. Relax, we have all week to 'discuss' the events from today's game.
We need more threads like this. Short, sweet and to the point.
Can I subscribe to your newsletter?
You better tell Hoke to shut up. He didn't sound very happy about the perfomance.
what you did:
Also, if I may add my own meta to this thread.
Anyone who suggested pulling Denard for DG at any point this season:
Guy creates a thread to tell people to stop posting things he doesn't like. Tool.
You're right. I'm a complete tool. I can't let arguments go and I always need to try to find a way to be right. My wife is a saint for dealing with that.
That being said, it is also true that people getting so critical about a kid they both a) formerly idolized, and b) have likely never met, is ridiculous. If I am a tool, then dammit, I'm taking half of this board with me today.
To man up and stop being whiny little bitches.
Earlier this week I heard and saw lot of people being really concerned about this game. What I saw was a M team dominating 3/4 of game. They held in check 2 opposing stars that was getting press about playing at the next level. DR ran for 200 and 3 TDs. Granted it will take time for him to get his mechanics right but we all new it was going to be a process- at times it will be painful. Learning this new system for any team much any player will take time.
You can't stop people from stating the painfully obvious concern for Denards throwing issues. We all love Denard and he is a Hell of a athlete but his passing is awful right now. Bottom line. He's still a great guy. He still has a great smile. We are talking football and being a Quarterback. We seen over the last 3 years that Denards running is ineffective against elite teams. He will have to throw the ball to win games. Don't fault die hard blue fans for saying it and not sugar coating it. That's doesn't hide the fact that its a major issue.
You mean this is a flawed football team that might not go to a BCS bowl? More details please.
If purdue and minn are as bad as they look, we just got bowl eligible today, y'all.
Pizza bowl, but still a bowl. Let's try for a bit better.
But did you guys see how poorly SDSU played today? That's what this coaching staff has us headed towards OH NOSE!
It's fine to have an unpopular opinion. That's not the issue here.
It's when your opinion is some combination of being inane, obvious, or parroting something that has been discussed ad nauseam on the board that gets annoying.
Posts like, "I am concerned about Denard's passing," are quite possibly the most worthless posts one can make.
Aside from the feeling of concern being the most asinine of feelings, no matter how many words you use to essentially state the aforementioned statement of being concerned about Denard's passing, you're not adding anything to the conversation.
Unless you are providing us with some amazing new insight, you're pulling the tri-fecta of parroting something that has been discussed ad nauseam on the board, making an obvious statement that we are all acutely aware of, and posting something that has no value to anyone.
Those are the kind of "opinions" that we need less of.
Banning unpopular opinions. Good idea.
Gosh, have you tried that line with women yet? "Your feelings are asinine.". Chicks dig that. Really. Try it out tonight...oh wait, you can't because you are alone. If people want to share their concerns (feelings), what's wrong with that? Take an empathy pill. It's called sharing.
The feeling concern is asinine. It's silly, it's dumb. That's the definition of asinine. I didn't say that all feelings are asnine you dolt, or that sharing your feelings is always bad, but if you want to create a straw man to burn down, then by all means.
So you're concerned, in other words you're mildly bothered by something, but you're not going to do anything about it. That is the feeling of concern. "Hmmmm, this concerns me, so I think I'll furrow my brow at it for a moment and then go about my day as I normally would."
Also, LOL, at your post. It was a treat. You forgot to tell me to get a life, and about how you are 6'4'' 256 pounds, have a rawkin' hawt chick, train UFC, own a successful business and vacation in the Hamptons.
Lindley didn't have a good day, bu I'm not ready to sign on to the notion that they played poorly. He had a lot of pressure. He had to throw early and typically they were uncatchable throws, often to no one.
To get hit. Every time anyone put pressure on him, which was often, he threw the ball away. It may have been in the direction of a WR but his throws were pitiful. He even three some into the line to avoid being hit. He was not taking a sack because he didn't want to take the punishment. The pro scouts saw something today that will drop his stock in the draft. He did not look good. No courage.
Did someone say Martian Law?
At least it should not be.One can still be a fan AND be critical. I found your post to be akin to the "America: Love it or Leave" phrase jingoists grunt whenever someone criticizes American foreign policy.
The guy is a subpar passer. That is a legitimate concern, particularly give how he performed last year vs OSU and MSU. Granted, that was his first year as a starter and so he deserves a significant break for that.
However, this is a new year. A year in which we hope the losing streaks to the Buckeyes and Spartans come to an end. That means people are going to fret over potentially fatal flaws.
Some have gone too far. I'll admit that. But his throwing ability is a legitimate concern. I don't think it is "whining" to mention a concern over his poor performance thjrowing the ball today.
I agree with you completely. There is a concern that Denard is not progressing well as a passer. I posted this as a reaction to the chorus of users that decided he should be relegated to slot duty and kickoffs.
I fully agree that people should voice their opinion. Mine is that people should settle down. Maybe the title was a bit incendiary. Let me fix that really quick, as I do agree that all opinions are valid, if not overstated.
That Denard isn't a great aerial wizard shouldn't be a new issue, cuz it's not new. A serious concern for thoughtful but surely supportive critics is that he seems to have regressed significantly. If he is below 50% completion against not great defenses, what happens against the BiG upper division? The flip side of all this was the D. Roh's stuff to close out SD's first offensive series was as heartening as DR's INT's were deflating.
Yes we won. Yet even if DRob is better than Tom Brady, people are still entitled to discuss his weakness.
I hope you're black
Denard should not be a QB. He cannot throw. He was only 6th in the Heisman voting last year as a QB, which is not good enough for Michigan. He should transfer so we can use that scholarship.
was All America... at Tailback, not QB... which is the main reason he was 6th in Heisman voting. Look Denard is a great kid. However, some people are ignoring what they are seeing. It won't be long before teams stack the box, and say, "Come on Denard, beat us through the air". We have already seen this movie, and we know how it turns out.
Those who are saying, "It's a new offense, Denard needs more time"... this argument is flawed. What we are seeing is not an issue of bad reads... but woeful accuracy. I don't see how that's going to get better any time soon. Changes need to be made to the offense. Let Denard make throws on the move. Give him throws that he can make. It's up to Borges to give Denard a chance to be successful. If Borges is as good as people say he is, he'll come up with a way to make it work. Otherwise... derp.
we did not cover against eastern, the bellhop in Vegas who saw my mich shirt was eager to inform me of that
I'm with you 50%. Denard does have some problems throwing the ball. Where we split is on your opinion that this offense is a failed experiment. I'm of the mind that Denard can progress to a serviceable (though not excellent) passer, and that Borges can find a way to hide Denard's deficiencies. I have never thought Denard had A+ accuracy, but he is WAY TOO TALENTED to not touch the ball every down.
They will figure it out. I've taken my two deep breaths... have you?
you couldn't have been this level-headed in your OP.
Who gives a shit if blog message board posters (easily the most analytical AND fanatical group of fans) want to spend 1% of their time celebrating a win, and 99% of their time bitching because our most important player is showing some significant issues in an important phase of the game?
We've had fast (Heisman-like even) starts before, only to see them crumble once the B1G season starts.
I certainly don't %100 blame Denard; he's stuggling sure, buts it's also on the coaches (specifically Borges) to put him in a position to succeed. They are currently failing to due that in the passing game. I'm very confident that Denard and the coaches will fix this problem. How fast and by how much remain in question.
By the way, there have been a ridiculous amount of semi-clueless new posters lately, combine that with the Veteran's fear of repeat season meltdowns and you have a toxic soup of reactionary message board dysfunction.
I bet you also wanted Ryan Mallett to start over Chad Henne too.
You seriously want to bench Denard for the upcoming Big Ten season, and start a QB who is a RS Freshman, learning a new offense, and who has taken 0 meaningful snaps in his career? Are you really that fucking dumb, or are you trolling? Please tell me that you're trolling so that I don't have to kill myself, because I now have to walk around with the knowledge people like you exist and actually believe they know what they are talking about.
Just once I would like to be able to act as czar of Michigan football, and grant you the ability to coach one game so that you could get your ass booed out of the stadium, and subsequently mocked on every sports related talk show and in every sports column in the country for the astronomically stupid idea of benching Denard for Devin Gardner.
When I typed that I was straight faced and cool as a cucumber.
I simply have zero tolerance for dumb.
Which means you have zero tolerance for the vast majority of humanity. You have anger issues. ;)
Welcome to MGoBlog.
I see your first few posts have been largely unintelligible flamebaits that have added nothing to the discussion.
I have a feeling your time here will be short.
OP, get a life.
All Michigan fans are thrilled to be starting 4-0. Same scenario as last year, except at this time Denard was completing about 70 percent of his passes. The we ran into teams that actually knew how to play defense. If some of us are concerned, we have a right to be. We all love Denard and we all see improvement with our defense, but the part of our schedule that really matters starts next week, and if we need our passing game to win games, based on what I'm seeing, the Michigan fan base has cause for concern.
Now how the fuck was my response trolling? Some of the attitude around this place really needs to go. Someone posts that we shouldn't have an opinion, then you tell him why you should and that's trolling? I don't get it.
There ought to be a rule aound here that if you are going to call someone a troll, be man enough to put your name to a response.
"Now how the fuck was my response trolling?"
Usually when you tell someone to get a life, it's trolling. It's fine to have a different opinion, but you were a dick about, hence the trolling tag.
But probably the "Get a life" line. Ad hominem attacks like that are always frowned upon here. And ultimately, it's a bit hyprocritical of you to make such a statement.
The OP wasn't addressing people who have concerns - because we all share those concerns. It's the timing (dude, we just WON, in convincing fashion), coupled with the people who are still -STILL - saying that DG should be the QB and Denard should be the RB.
I sure wasn't trying to be a dick, so if I was out of line I apologize. I live and die by Michigan football, and I have real concerns as do many of us. Our passing game is a problem right now and will be a subject that will probably be the most salient topic of conversation around here this week.
Sorry, but that excuse for dickishness doesn't cut it. Everyone on this board (unless they are a member of an opposing team) "lives and dies" by Michigan football. It does not confer a licence to launch ad hominem attacks in the direction of those with whom we disagree.
When you click a button it would be helpful to attach the reason why you dinged someone.
Name yourself you surreptitious scoundrel! Now, be a man and fight me over the internet!
When we are negative about what we are seeing it isn't something personal about Denard. I love Denard and he is an extremely talented runner. But, I also have to be realistic with his abilities and admit to myself that it will be difficult to beat a team with a strong defense when your QB can't move the ball through the air. I personally can't see us beating the likes of OSU, MSU, or Neb and that's frustrating. I think we expected him to improve his throwing abilities and it looks like he's regressed so far. Love the kid, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating to see such glaring deficiencies. I would love to be wrong here.
I was wondering what would happen once we couldn't bitch about Ezeh and GERG. I never thought it would be to bitch about Denard and then yell at each other about it. I guess this is better?
About moving Denard into the slot - Look, we got pleanty of slots running around. Just because he is fast doesn't mean he can play reciever or even catch a football. No thanks, I would rather have him touch the ball every offensive play.
About Devin starting - I am sorry, but this is one of dumbest things I have ever heard. People are entitled to their opions, but this is almost enough to make me learn to embedd stuff so i could get one of those "Not sure if serious" pictures that all the kids love so much. Look, if Devin could move the offense better than Denard, don't you think that the coaching staff would have him playing? If you say "No," then explain to me why they are sticking with Denard.
Denard is not, repeat not, going to win the Heisman this year. He is a flawed passer. He may always be. He is also the best QB on the roster right now. Tom Brady is not walking through those doors and we will not go 12-0. We have to accept that for this year. 8-4 looks seriously realistic, maybe even 9-3. That is not too bad for this year given all the history and the change in style and coaches.
but you can see that the coaches and the players are getting it together. Denard and the offense had their problems, but they did put 28 on the scoreboard which should be enough to win. I'm glad to see that we have a real defense emerging as they learn the system and learn how to play with each other. What an improvement over the "down the field escort service" we provide the last two years. Defense needed to step up at times and they did it. The seniors are very aware how good starts turned into less than stellar finishes the last 2 years. They don't want a repeat experience and this coaching staff is going to tell them to work hard, keep improving, and never be satisfied. Give the team and Denard some space to do that.
Everyone does need to step off a ledge. We handly beat a team a lot of people thought would upset us. Our defense is miles better than last year's, and at this point is decent, which is incredible considering where we were last year. Our RBs are also seemingly much more producitve this year.
Yes, we have put Denard on a pedestal. All the people saying he needs to be taken out as QB are ridiculous. He has struggled passing, but so far he has more for made up for it running the ball. If we take him out, Devin might throw more effectively, but he won't run as well, and the option reads won't work nearly as well. The reason our RBs get the holes they do is because everyone flocks to Denard, leaving the RBs lanes to run. That won't happen with Devin in.
HOWEVA. Denard's passing is a big concern to me. No matter how you slice it, 8-16 with 2 INTs is just plain bad. Once we get to the meet of our B1G schedule, if Denard can't tear up a team running like he has, I don't feel confident putting it on his arm at all. Improvements must be made, and quick.
The past two years started in similar fashion -- what da ya know, SDSU was just like Western 2009, and UConn 2010 -- and any little hickup is sending convulsions through our system based on what we've been through in the past.
We'll feel a lot better once we've done in Sparty, brought Paul Bunyon home, kept the Brown Jug home, and knocked off everyone else leading into the Nebraska game.
I was somewhat worried about WMU, flat-out expected Michigan to lose to ND, and was worried about SDSU. I'll take 4-0. I also think it's interesting that people (apparently) take it for granted that Michigan's QB will run for 200 yards.
To think that going 4-0 is a double-edged sword, simply because we all went through two years of starting 4-0 and ending 5-7 and 7-6. So, as a result, rather than relishing the early victories we look beyond and think "how will we collapse this year"?
Screw the last two years. This team is different. The coaches are different. The sky is still the limits. There are issues of course, but damnit I believe this team can beat anybody right now. We just handily beat a team many picked as upset-special-of-the-week. We held a darn good offense to 7(!!!) points. We beat ND with the same passing attack that needs so much work. Through all this talk of concerns with Denard's passing, what gets lost is how awesome our D was today, how much they've already improved over last year. Even there, obviously still concerns. But this team has shown through 4 games the ability to will a victory, to win despite deficiencies and at times ugly play, and all witha coach who basically says "we suck...lots of practice to do" after a 3-touchdown victory (which is good imo)
Sky's the limit.
In 1997 too. Doesn't mean we're any more likely to do the same as that year than the previous two years, but there you go. It seems like people would be happier if we were 3-1. At least with this win we won be going 3-9.
I agree with this guy. I don't think the fanbase will ever be happy with a performance. Denard had a shitty day throwing (again) but we won by three touchdowns! Yet, people will focus on everything that wasn't good and start having a panic attack over it.
WE GOT A WIN. And it wasn't in a 67-65 3OT fashion. It was a sound win. Ryan Lindley couldn't buy time to find a receiver and we kept Ronnie Hillman out of the endzone.
What more do you want?
....at least I am not one of the folks that goes to meet-ups for this show (my sister does that), but the kids like it, and we sit down and watch it with them. It's actually pretty funny once in a while. I think they throw the pop culture into the show to draw in the parents though.
I was getting bored of this ledge anyway.
Petition: Chill out
I fixed it for you.
From this URL
I learned in 2010 Denard had 688 rushing yards through 4 games, for an average of 8.7 yards per carry.
In 2011, Denard had 552 rushing yards through 4 games, for an average of 7.8 yards per carry.
We need a thread panicking over the lower rushing yard per carry figures!
Those starry-eyed optimists who were confidently predicting 10-2 have reason to be concerned. Those who were thinking 8-4 are probably thinking "they're right about where we thought they'd be." Those in the latter group were far more realistic.
The thing I'm most encouraged by is that our defense has consistently gotten the big stop or turnover at key situations in all of our games so far, even if they've been giving up big plays during the game overall. Getting those critical stops or turnovers was a huge problem during conference play during the last three seasons. This defense is going to give up plenty of yards to MSU or Iowa or NW, but if they can keep them from converting third downs at critical junctures they can stay in the game even if our offense is sputtering.
this post is UNACCEPTABLE
We are turning into a bunch of pussies. I don't know if the Emo of this site feeds into it, or attracts it, or if there enough people around who can't remember or have forgotten about what it's like to win (and expect it). Because if right after a dominant win against a team that it was thought we'd struggle against, to go 4-0 in a season everybody knew we weren't going to be a great team all people can do is complain...what the hell are you going to do after we lose? And we will, because we're a few years away from being a great team. And even then, guess what- teams full of teenagers don't play perfect games every week, and the number of teams across the country that look like they could demolish everyone in their path and are bad ass in every facet of the game are pretty rare.
Will our problems keep us from going undefeated? Uhm, yeah. You should have known this coming in. Till then, act like you've been there before, stop fretting how every oncoming light in the dark is a train, and learn how to enjoy the wins. Because you're not going to find a way to enjoy the losses. The last 3 years should have taught you that if nothing else.
Why do you even watch football if the wins give you no pleasure, and the only way you're going to be happy is to win 63-0? Find a new hobby before you give yourself a stroke.
Just kidding. Spot on observation.
Our last 4 games are challenging, at Iowa, at Illinois, Nebraska, and Ohio State at home. God I don't want to lose 4 in a row. At the end of the day the fan base will be happy when we win. If we go 8-4, yeah that's better than last year. But, if we go 8-0 or 7-1, then lost 3 or more of our last 4 games that would heartbreaking. So in my mind we need to find a way to at least split MSU/OSU and split Iowa/Illinois. But, without a consistent passing game I find that a challenge.