in defiance to the Freep story released days earlier. This board was so pissed at the Freep and solidly behind the team and the coaching staff for that game.
Mike Lantry, 1972
in defiance to the Freep story released days earlier. This board was so pissed at the Freep and solidly behind the team and the coaching staff for that game.
I will never Boo the players. The coaches are a different story. If the same bs happens this weekend you can bet you will hear boos, and with good reason. If we can't move the ball on the worst defense in the B1G, we are FUCKED.
How the hell do you make the distinction? more importantly how do players and recruits? They just hear booing. A lot of recruits probably won't even know why since they probably didn't watch all our games. They'll just think we're dicks, and with good reason.
Honestly, what do you hope to accomplish besides making yourself feel better? Do you really think the coaches will change what they're doing? Do you think they will somehow try harder, as if they aren't already totally invested in winning?
the players know FULL WELL that the coaches didn't execute last Saturday. Michigan dominated the 2nd half until the play calling halted our momentum (on the PSU 27 yard line).
Two consecutive Fitz runs for NO GAIN will bring a cascade of boo's ... and EVERYONE will know where the boo's are aimed.
I respectfully disagree. The players and coaches are a lot closer to each other than either are to the fans. It's even more so in rough times, players and coaches know it's the guys in the lockeroom that matter and that need to stick together, not about what the fans are saying. Lockerooms where players are blaming the coaches are the exception and the sign of extreme disfunction (see: USC and Kiffen). You boo one, you are booing the other as well in their eyes.
Fantastic post. I'm not sure Borges is the answer and I think some honest, frank questions can be asked about how effective his scheme/adjustments have been. That being said insulting his weight, insinuating that he doesn't care about his job/winning, or any of the such vitrol that has been spouted since Saturday is unnecessary. You'll almost never see me post in game threads or immediately after losses because I know I can't maintain perspective in the heat of the moment. I'd suggest many, many posters here do the same.
I'm all right with people having melt downs on SATURDAY, but this week at MGoBlog has been pretty depressing. Why can't we just have an Al Borges Open Thread and a Michigan Offense Open Thread. Every other post is the same stuff written by another person explaining the same thing that has been covered at least 100 times.
Let's move on and start discussing the positive parts of being a Michigan fan.
Agreed. I've been avoiding the blog this week for that reason.
that game I would still feel the way I do know. The offensive coordinator has and will cost Michigan wins going forward, and that's hard to stomach, but Mule's gonna mule.
Reading this blog I keep thinking I'm in the minority for not wanting to fire the OC immediately, but then I realize this place is a gigantic echo chamber. I want to see, just once, Ace, Seth or BiSB or any mod for that matter actually disagree with Brian on something substantive. Or point me to when it happened, because I haven't seen it.
Putting aside for the moment that we have no idea what is out there for other OCs who would actually want to work here (expecially when you just fired the guy who was recruiting like a boss and just lost a 4OT game) and we're sitting at 5-1 with a game against Indiana coming up, this is the same OC who was flexible enough to run a spread for 2 years that was clearly out of his comfort zone, so now is stuck in the first year of trying to implement something like his system. Yes, the OL has many issues, obviously, starting with the fact that we have 3 first-time starters there. I don't know how to fix that mid-season, but I do know that unlike RichRod's teams on defense, we have an army of awesome and talented recruits coming in who will shore up the line.
Borges lost 1 game in which we had a 33 yard field goal from the dead center of the field to win it. How about we all relax a bit? We all know he doesn't want to run the spread, but I'll bet anything Borges scores more points against OSU than RichRod did his last year.
All of the above is exactly why you're (OP's) post reviewing the plays from the game in detail quarter by quarter was so helpful - we have more than one actually informed opinion on the play calls.
Echo chamber is one way of putting it, but when you control the content and the lens through which it is seen through, it becomes a cult of personality. Which, yes, the blog isn't technically a public space, and we're all guests here, et cetera. These are the pitfalls of confirmation bias and the front page contributors here are not immune - which is why I enjoy the Space Coyote's posts as they routinely provide an alternate and equally if not more plausible view of things.
If you listened to the podcast, you would get the impression that the OC is a complete moron. I wonder how many programs are banging on the doors of bloggers to come save their teams from the veteran coaches.
MGoBlog has become so popular because it's a place with well thought out and reasoned analysis. I thought Borges was a moron on Saturday night well before the podcast.
Maybe Brian and Ace know what they're talking about? Sometimes things are so obvious that the masses are right.
The masses were also pretty certain Hoke was a terrible hire so I'd be careful about that.
Also, my point is that it's not actually "the masses" it only sounds that way because this is a blog full of sheep.
Interesting that you fall into the trap you point out for others. It is not the masses, only a relatively loud voices. Yet, you say this blog is full of sheep. The "sheep" that you reference may be loud and show up a fair amount, but that doesn't mean this blog is full of them.
the "sheep" comment is not really correct. The blog is not full of sheep generally (although Brian's opinion is generally taken as gospel, which was the point there), but the people who are prone to overreact and all agree are the ones who post in times of woe and want such as these. People are looking for answers, and Brian sells the only blog that's got em (sort of).
As far as current mods go, I don't think either of us is pushing Brian's opinion more than any thoughtful agreement would allow. I guess you could say that LSA and I don't critisize him, but I'd be pretty surprised to see more than one or two critisizism posts if you click on either account.
how you see fit, but to me the apologists just sound like Baghdad Bob. That game was so ridiculous I wasn't sure who I was rooting for at the end of game. I was so pissed at whatever it was the mule we have for an offensive coordinator was trying to do that I was almost relieved that PSU won. Competence won out over fucking muleball, as it should.
What kind of burrito?
Keeping with the lean meat after the burger I had for lunch. Yup, eating healthy.
While I agree with on the name calling I do have to point out that the reason the intensity level racheted back up today was concurrent with his press release where Al basically "doubled down" on what appears to the vast majority of the board to be a deeply flawed strategy. I know for me personally I was miffed about the game on Saturday (and probably only just miffed) until Borges basically blamed the players for not properly executing his gameplan instead of admitting the gameplan itself was horrible.
In business when I have always been taught to deliver good news anytime but to deliver bad news with a plan. Al's "plan", so it seems, is to continue on the same path we are on now but with different players. Which is the height of arrogance IMO given what an impossible position he put those players in most of Saturday.
Fire Borges. Am I allowed to say that or is that being uncivil?
Not that I'm any kind of judge of posting ettiquite, but you at least gave a reason. I think that's all people are asking for.
MGrowOld I have no issue with you saying "fire borges" but the implication is to fire him mid saeason with no idea if we have a better play caller to take over and that sounds like a terrible plan to me.
This team is 5-1 with plenty of football to be played and much at stake as they could be 6-6 or perhaps 9-3 considering the talent and schedule. "Fire Borges" is not the sensible civil plan to take action with in the now.
I am just as frustrated as you are and I want to see some changes against Indiana. I want to see Funchess, Dileo, Gallon and Norfleet in the spread and run from that with 5 blockers facing 5 down linemen. I want to see us take the 5 yards the defense gives playing 15 yards off Gallon when they play cover 1 with 8 in the box. I want to see some misdirection and more zone read. As much as I would like to se Al Borges in contrition I would much prefer to see him take what the defense gives him.
Plenty of football left to play allow him his 90 days to right the ship before calling for his head. Al was at 100% of plan just last week at 5-0.
The reason I'm not as afraid to pull the trigger now as most is simply because I refuse to believe things could get much worse. Hell, I'd be happier letting Devin call the plays (at least then we'd eliminate the delay of game penalties) than Borges right now.
After 1 1/2 years of "it can't get worse" mentality as the OL goes from bad to worse, I would think people would have learned to stop and consider the unintended consequences of every change.
that is PRECISELY why Borges needs to go. It is his job to know our strengths and weaknesses, and it is VERY clear that we cannot run against an 8 man in the box defense. Yet that is what he called ... time after time. There is tons of visual evidence - how can Devin not be allowed to audible when he sees this? It's not like PSU was hiding their strategy.
Plain and simple ... Borges is NOT doing his job to make this team successful.
You're missing the point though. We fans tend to see only one snippet of the whole picture and when things aren't going well, we immediately what change, sometimes drastic change, without fully comprehending the impacts of the changes. Borges may well deserve to be fired, but it won't be without negative consequences and there's absolutely no guarantee the next guy will be do any better given the constraints of the team right now. Things absolutely need to get fixed, but I seriously don't think fans are privy to all the information they need to know the best way to make those changes. "Fire Borges" just seems like the most obvious one from the stands or tv screens.
Fair, but people also heard a lot of what they wanted to hear, things that already supported what they'd already decided about Borges.
"Because the power game wasn’t as good, you can’t just say, “We’re not going to do it anymore." was the first thing people took issue with. But he followed up the next sentence with "You still have to sprinkle it in. What we did in the second half was we threw the ball more, created a few big plays, and did a pretty good job." That's perfectly reasonable. Even air raid teams don't totally not run. You can criticize when we ran and how much we ran, but what he said is totally reasonable and consistent with 99% of coaches out there.
People had a problem with the bubble screen thing, which, fair enough. Honestly, I did too. Then again, he's not the first coach to bristle a little when reporters tell them how to do their jobs.
None of it is an excuse to fly off the handle like some people have.
Because you're better than that, but if prior to the Borges press conference you were only "miffed" I'd hate to see you mad.
Guilty as charged. More than miffed.
But in my defense you will notice the comments definitely spike in their intensity after I saw his press conference. And I never called him names - I just think he's horrible at his job and for reasons I cant begin to fathom, he seems to think he's doing great.
And sadly, so does his boss it seems.
Once social organizations reach a state of static equilibrium, entropy begins to occur. The degradation of the system unit of entire system is then only a function of time. This unintended process occurs until the system is thrown out of its static state with new inputs or process changes, or the system fails. To challenge the onslaught of entropy, system thinkers are required to continuously expand their knowledge of the scope and complexity of their system. Once they can identify a way to for the component or process to evolve, the risk of entropy is lessened. After new actions are taken or inputs are changed, the process to avoid system decline due to entropy begins again. Once growth has stopped, the decline of the system is inevitable.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world
I haven't and will not resort to name calling. My message has been simple and what I think to be fair and to the point.
And this blog covers the winningest program in college football. And for some time now, this program has not performed up to its historical record.
And I believe in truth-telling. And I think that honest appraisal no matter how debilitating the manner in which it is conveyed expresses how we think and live, even if we dislike the manner in which it is offered. It is what it is.
I have followed this team my entire life. I didn't attend the school but I believe in its principles. And there is no question that this is one arrogant, entitled fan base. It is used to winning. It is used to great achievement.
But it also knows when it's being lied to. And that is the case in connection with the way this offense is being run. And the evidence is self-evident. We don't need an expert to point the bs out. We can see it for ourselves. And it's not on the players, unless you believe that they ought to be able to do what many pro football players are incapable of doing.
I don't think this is true.
Football is certainly a results-based business. So I suppose if an offense underperforms, the coordinator is to be blamed. But the problem with your argument is that nothing is self-evident.
I look at this line and think that every coordinator on earth would struggle with it. To confuse matters further, the offense has look good in spurts, as evidenced by our being in position to win @PSU despite spotting them the ball at the 14- and 20- yard lines in the 1st half.
If that sounds like an apologia, it really isn't. If we fire Borges, I wouldn't bat an eye. "No man is more important than the team". But this is the place we come to talk about stuff. This is why I've been spazzing out for weeks about how this line is the worst ever. To me, it seems self-evident. Apparently, it isn't. More to the point, people keep insisting that there is an offense to be had that does not depend on blocking people. As much as id like to see that offense - out of sheer curiosity - I'd hate to see it at Michigan, because I couldn't imagine it being able to win games.
I've been trying to discuss why we suck, in detail, and asking if Borges should be fired and if that will fix anything. That's all. But I've been attacked personally or had my thoughts dismissed as those of an apologists. I'm not sensitive enough for it to really matter, and I only care about the opinion of 5-7 guys on here w/r/t football theory, but I do think its bad form for the board.
Said what I have felt. I've read most every word that gets posted on the blog for a while but wading through all of the "fuck this" comments has been wearing.
I always thought preachers stood on soap boxes.
I do not. Dare to be different!
Or I just suck as speling
Yes..Mrs. Grass is one of my favorites.
Well, now nothing makes sense...
Placing the blame on one individual, player or coach, is always impossible. A missed field goal, a nearly tipped/intercepted pass, a near first down spot (I think they still got the review wrong), a miss thrown pass, a missed tackle, miss block, a bad play call, etc all contributed to the loss. We simply need to take this as a learning experience and grow from it. Also, I agree about a level of maturity on the board. I avoided reading the blog for days after the loss so I didnt have to hear all the negativity/profanity. Football is a game, not life or death. Enjoy it, root on your team, root for the health/saftey of everyone, quietly sulk for a few hours after a loss and appreciate a good game of football
I appreciate, and agree with, your thoughts completely. I haven't posted anything on here since Saturday, as what is there to add, really? More vitriol isn't helpful. Right now, I can see both sides of the debate on keeping AB. Was his play-calling predictable? Yes. But we also should have won that game and it took more than one fluke play for us not to. No one on here was complaining about him after ND. I think we all need to chill out, keep calm heads (as the coaches seem to be doing), realize it's only one week and it's a GAME, and realize that all of the goals of the team are still out there. If Al can learn from his experiences, we'll know by the end of the season and I'm sure Hoke reassesses everything every year.
And just to show that I'm not just some pansy-ass, I will include gratuitous profanity, because I'm a fucking fuck who's a fat fuck and doesn't know his fucking ass from his fucking face.
Now that's what we need on this board.
You may be a fat fuck. I've never seen you. But I've never seen you say anything that would lead me to believe you're a fucking fuck. And I've lived in Boston, so I've known some fucking fucks.
I mean, I'm sure he's not a currently fucking fuck, but suggesting he's a fuck that's never fucked (not that there's anything fucking wrong with that) is pretty fucking fucked up, don't you think?
What do you think I am, some sort of fucking rude-ass fucking hogfucker?
What the fuck do you know about that fucking fuck? The only thing he fucks is his own fucking ass. Meow.