META: Bring Back Actual Voting
I want to see how high (or low) some posts get. Limiting it to 5 up or -1 down kinda sucks.
As Michigan fans, we demand the right to know exactly how good or bad something is.
It's not even that. Being able to neg someone to Bolivia without being a mod is half the fun
I remember Brian mentioning sometime a couple months ago that he was going to change the voting system. I wouldn't expect any changes to be made until the off-season though, when he has more free time.
I don't know if its a matter of coding or what but I know for a fact there is a lot of mgousers out there who are Competent programmers who could get the job done for Brian. I don't know if thats an option but it should be.
Everybody wins. The intern gets experience, Brian gets free labor, we get actual votes. Maybe we can get the EECS department to fund this as some sort of work-study project.
there is a lot of mgousers out there
That right there would have been worth at least a -5 in the olden days.
The man is married now. He doesn't have "free time" without first being given permission in writing by She Who Must Be Obeyed.
I've been married for 17 years now. I know how these things work (or thought I did, but the rules keep changing).
You fools. You must accept this "democracy" that is given to you...or you will be crushed. Resistance is futile.
But, yeah, I like reading the unpopular comments too. The semi-censorship now in place really accomplishes nothing. Most of us have pretty thick skin and are comfortable with the internet and it's nearly-anything-goes ethos.
I totally agree and I'd be willing to pitch in if necessary to change it back.
I agree. It's almost election time. Let's start practicing.
Your guy sucks, my guy rules!
/how most people sound/act when politics come up
Agreed. I hate this moderate button.
The one you can't see...
100% agree. I'll donate $500 to help pay for the reprogramming costs.
What would it cost for a programmer to make this happen. I bet the necessary funds could be raised in the time it would take to order a pizza and have it delivered.
Jimmy Johns would have had it there before you hit "save" on your comment.
I absolutely agree. And to tack on a rider to this proposal, I'm of course going to throw in a request for higher minimums to post. Most threads that get negged to bolivia are usually started by guys who have just crossed 100 and aren't aware of board rules (spoken and unspoken) and the general way things work here. If we bring back real voting, a point threshold of 200, 250 or even 500 would be much more attainable by someone who is actually contributing likeable material to the board, yet more difficult to attain for the undeserving guys.
A quality newbie could theoritcally get to that higher point threshold and contribute more good content faster than the way it is now. On the other hand, trolls that have been here for many years, or guys that annoyingly over-comment right off the bat to get to 100/500 pts, would not just default their way to the needed point total like they're able to now. The board will make damn sure of that.
In general, allowing voting (and raising thresholds for starting threads) gives this board more of a ability to police themselves (which is a positive thing and something we've always done a decent job of) and it also makes the mods lives a bit easier.
I agree on the threshold bit, but the ability to neg someone will help take care of that problem too.
With negs that actually bring down your point total, it will take longer for people to get to 100 points because they will with a doubt say some stupid things in their first hundred points, meaning they'd really be at 150 or so of today's points before they were able to post.
Also - if people know that if they make a dumb post they'll get lots and lots of negative points, they'll think twice once they hit that 100 number, knowing a bad post might bring them back to 50 in a hurry.
The big problem now is that if you make a bad post or start a bad thread, there will be no ramification outside of getting ribbed, unless it's terribly offensive. Having a point threshold plus consequencs might be enough.
One of the great, self-policing aspects of this board was the ability to neg troll-like comments into bolivian, and to upvote those that were truly great or funny.
I expect that the reason that Brian removed the old system was because of the level of acrimony during the latter part of the RR era. Those that wanted RR gone were often negged heavily for expressing their negative views by those that defended RR. The result of this was a point system that led to negging (or upvoting) based entirely on the view expressed.
The discord and split in the fanbase that characterized 2008-10 is gone, however. Sure, we don't all agree on everything, but the differences of opinion (i.e. Fitz should be benched in favor or Rawls vs. Fitz will be fine) are ordinary for any fanbase, and there is no real acrimony. So, I personally see no reason not to go back to the old system that we all liked.
I think you are spot on here man. Too many wildly negative or positive posts revolving about the RR debate. Very nasty business that, I hope to not see that ever again.
Its the gift that keeps on giving all year-round. I still have people that neg me on sight for my "performance" during that time. My (and I think jHackney's) position was that the vitriol was ridiculous, regardless of opinions. We blew up every argument about it, regardless of the position. And I think we learned that even trying to do that was bad. I think everyone learned a lot from that era - not just as fans but as participants on this blog. I know I did. And my one take from it as a moderator now is to make sure that everyone respects each other.
So, from my standpoint, the accumulating point system helps weed out an punish the trolls. And the moderators can simply provide back-up in the event they don't get the message rather than how it works now.
In a previous thread (i can't find) someone suggested unlimited upvoting but limited negging so someone can't be sent to Bolivia in one fell swoop by an angry mob. Seems fairly rationale.
but I'm pretty sure Brian stated it was lost in the hack bombing of a few years ago. Had to go with different "thingies" (the extent of my website knowledge) in the rebuild and that awesome points system was not a possibility at that time.
You are correct. Brian had to change it after the site got attacked. I think all or some of the codes were turned malicious, but I'm sure someone with actual programming knowledge can be more specific.
I like the Neg aspect of it, but it used to be a thousand GIFs and funny pictures in most threads getting upvoted like crazy, but those images kinda bogs down real discussion that takes place around it.
We can regulate that kind of stuff. I won't lie - having a true, accumulating voting system was tremendous - both entertaining and less pressure on moderators to regulate rogue users - but I will be the first to admit that I have no idea what goes into programming (cost, time, labor, etc.). No idea.
hilarity are 66.66(repeating of course) percent of why I come here. The other 33.33 is the UM info. Don't be bagging on the total awesomeness that is this site. UM football is only part of it.
I actually read the beginning of Brian's "That 70s Game" entry to my wife yesterday with the commentary that it was a perfect example of why I love this site. The writing (not just Brian's, but also many MGoContributors) is some of the best on the internet. That this site just happens to be about Michigan athletics is a worthy bonus, but it would be exceptional without it, too.
This is the problem with Reddit now, where discussion gets derailed because the jokes get upvotes. Maybe having the option to filter out posts that are moderated as funny would help.
But if the jokes are getting upvotes, doesn't that mean that people like them? If a joke is derailing a discussion and you don't like that, couldn't you just downvote to show your displeasure?
Sounds like he and Herm sit together at home games.
You got a problem bruh?
and pluses. Also, hiding sucks. Too often, any idiot can come through and shut down a post--let everyone read them and decide for themselves--plusses and negs help give an idea of how people see them.
Agreed on the hiding aspect.
Just change your comment threshold settings right below the main content of the forum post to -1 and save. This automatically unhides all hidden posts that were voted negative.
Is the bug that makes it impossible to read page 2 (and beyond) without opening a new tab ever going to be resolved? That'd be nice.
^^^ This I care about.
Points, not so much.
I was one of the biggest whiners when the change was made, and I've been in favor of this ever since. Quite frankly I think it's kind of silly that we still have this system when even when the change was made 90% of users didn't like it. And it's not like it would be super hard to code or anything; we already had the perfect system. Just bring it back.
because I love America!
In the old system this post would easily be worth 100 pts, sadly, all you good people can do is alot me my 5 pt pittance.
stoopid 4ive points.
Thinking about this a little bit harder, I'm wondering if Brian actually changed the system to penalize for being a terrible fanbase for 3 years. If so Brian its worked and we're sorry. We won't do it again.
Say you love Rich Rod and you're sorry to see him go...
I know I'm sad Rich is gone and I agree he was treated badly by everyone and it definitely wasnt his fault at all that things didnt go well here. I wish we could just rewind the clock and give him a big "do-over" and let him have Jeff Casteel like he was suppose to have - don't you?
Now can we have our points system back?
Does anyone on here know anyone who knows anything computer programming? I was a sociology major, so I barely even know how to use a computer, but I have to believe that at least one mgoblogger knows something about this stuff.
Hell, when we wanted Iris Macadangdang to win NOY, we made it happen. Can neg points be that much harder?
i think i got half my points in the NSFW Steven R Kass thread.
Bring it back!!!!!!
Those threads did generate points. As did many others, like the Raback predictions. TomVH threads also had lots of points associated with them. I'm looking forward to seeing the true points system return to mgoblog.
Nothing will ever compare to the Lloyd Brady photoshop threads. If there are any that haven't seen them, you all should go visit the MGoHoF and check them out. Classic.
(And a little plug for my "Free FuManBlue" posbang thread that got him out of Bolivian. Of course, he decided to be stupid and get sent back there again.)
And yet some people think this blog's point system is a zero-sum economy...
I am planning a move to Drupal 7 as soon as it is feasible and will be starting that process as soon as the OSU game ends. Unfortunately, that process is going to take a while because some critical modules are still not updated.
So the site will remain static until then; when I move to 7 the full glory of pos/negbangs will return. Prepare thy anus.
If you are a coder who wants to accelerate this process, the best thing to do is take some drupal 6 modules and update them for the latest version. If you're interested, email me. I've got some cash for the project but not the 100-200 dollars an hour kind of cash most shops are looking for.
and I'm sure some MGoCoder would do the work for a few thousand points.
So points are actually worth something? I already tie my self esteem to my point total, but after this new/old system gets put in place, if I play my cards right, I'll be able to quit my job!
I just have one question: how do I cash in my points?
Put me down for $500 to help the cause Brian.
maybe somebody (Not Me) should do a kickstarter or paypal thing. I would spend all of that money on hookers and blow.
Eh, it would likely just be easier to get people to donate directly to the site through good ole' beveled guilt.
Easier maybe but in my case I'm committing financial support for a specific task to be completed. Beveled Guilt donations can be used on all sorts of crazy things like trips to Georgia Bulldog games or even Blockhams.
Wait...mgoblog pays for Blockhams?
"Prepare thy anus"
Jesus, Brian, it's about to get serious isn't it?
It needed to be said.
That's what She sa . . . DON"T JUDGE ME!
I can't believe you said "Prepare thy anus" without posting THIS (I linked rather than embedded because scale definitely added something).
I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that having the picture be enormous made it funnier, not that I didn't know how to make it smaller.
Actually, I just changed it to prepare 'thy' anus. Sadly the grand scale of your picture did not carry over. I would recommend just staring at your screen very closely, then opening up the image.
I stand corrected. You have corrected the corrector. Touche, good sir.
Now I will go back to getting lost in the eyes of my Ewok rapist.
11w has added an aggressive, unlimited voting feature like the mgoblog of old. I'm in full support
I'm sure your MGoPoint total will benefit greatly a return to the old system.
Well seeing as I read far more than I actually comment, it will be well worth the enjoyment of watching the inner turmoil that I've learned to love over here lead to -100 posts
One of the things that I actually found most useful as a new user, when it came to learning about this corner of MGoFandom, was the voting system as it underscored what was lauded and what was frowned upon. It basically gave people a clear picture of the culture and how to contribute positively to it, I think. Just seeing which posts were heavily upvoted / downvoted often were policing in itself, as it stopped me from saying things that I could see would get oblitterated.
My question - would we go back to the same +2 upvote / -1 downvote relationship as before?
I wasn't posting, or even lurking, on the Blog before the change, so count me as one of those who are excited to see these new developments.
I'd like to see voting come back, but with a few tweaks.
I don't know how to deal with this, but I'd like to see the new voting system or mods have some way to address compulsive voting. Specifically, there are some people who compulsively downvote anything posted by someone they disagreed with in the past. For instance, there are some who reflexively downvote anything Section 1 ever puts up on the board, probably because of his position on RR and the Freep. It seems that some mgomembers hold a grudge against other mgomembers that never dies out, and will always downvote everything put up by the object of their wrath and ire.
The original post has a "voting details" tab which reveals both these compulsive downvoters (and also outs those who shamelessly upvote their own posts. IIRC, RollDamnTide / WolverineInABag did this a lot.) That kind of feature would be helpful if and when true voting comes back.
More than just voting, I think it would be helpful for the board to be able to do more self-policing. There are two areas where this can be needed.
First, some of the comments which add no content just clog things up. (i.e., posts that consist entirely of "YESSS!!" or "Ohio SUX." or "You're an A-hole." or "Denard's the man!") Short posts make sense when answering a question (Who do you want to beat most: MSU or OSU?) But other one word / one line posts lower the level of the board.
The other thing is going to the dark side of acrimony and recrimination. Whether it is discussions on RR or the Freep or Denard's passing, or Borges' playcalling, on occasion, people on the board need to agree to disagree without becoming thoroughly disagreeable. Sometimes, once a thread has degenerated, people just pile on the offender.
On occasion, there were some classic meltdowns and flame wars on the board several years ago. These can be amusing, but usually are just sad, and not helpful. There were formerly some worthwhile posters who either were expelled or voluntarily left the board after being piled on. Again, if the board just pillories someone expressing an unpopular and non-mainstream POV, finally, a useful poster is driven away. IIRC, user mgoshoe signed off for several months because of board disagreements. I'm glad he is back, and don't want to see users like him driven away.
Lastly, there are some who will go through a thread and upvote everything, or downvote everything, with which the voter personally agrees (or disagrees.) I guess this is ok, but it kind of makes the point system . . . pointless. We don't just need a point beauty contest.
IIRC, downvotes cost the downvoter a downvote, so compulsive downvoters would quickly lose their privileges.
I found that 1 point out of the old mgopiggy bank was often well worth the neg.
The meltdowns, flame wars, pos-bangs, neg bangs... none of those were useful, but they were awesomely entertaining.
They were few and far between, so let's not make it seem like they were the norm. If you don't want to read the flame wars, don't click the links. These things happen on all message boards.
But my participation to the discussions have decreased substantially since the old voting system went away.
I think Reddit pretty much has a solid voting system. Is there a way we could copy that type of coding into Mgoblog? I can see that being fairly simple from a person who knows zero about coding..