The message that must be sent to Dave Brandon
The man is a genius, but Lord I have rarely heard anyone get something so wrong as he does in the latest DetNews article. His reasoning:
"I do believe that one of the things people have lost track of in all of the noise is that if Michigan and Ohio State are in the same division, Michigan and Ohio State will never again play for the Big Ten championship -- we will never again play for the Rose Bowl. I think there's a lot of people that just haven't focused on that, and they need to understand that.
"And I have to tell you as a guy who was part of the program and who understands the magnitude of that game, to know that from this point forward we will never play Ohio State for a trip to the Rose Bowl again, never play them for the Big Ten championship again, that doesn't sound good to me.
It's so badly wrong it's got to be one of those things bureaucrats say when they want to distract people from the fact that the TV people are holding the leash. Assuming it's not, and that he really believes this stuff, which he might, anyone contacting Brandon in any way to plead for leaving the Game in November should keep the following in mind:
- Brandon's reasoning is based on the notion that Michigan and OSU might one day play in the title game. We all know this. Brandon should look at the folly of the ACC for a lesson: expecting that Miami and Florida State would reach the ACCCG, the game was set in Florida for years, and played in front of humiliatingly empty stadiums when Boston College played in the game more often than either Florida school combined. Conferences that make big scheduling decisions like that based on one of the 36 possible combinations for the title game end up with egg on their face.
- Michigan and Ohio State playing for the Rose Bowl was on life support when Penn State came into the conference and died with Nebraska and the advent of divisions. Is there any among us who'd prefer U-M/OSU for the Rose Bowl once every fifteen years over U-M/OSU in its rightful place every year and playing with the division on the line at least two years out of three?
- Lastly, who among us would care less about the BTCG if it were a UM-OSU rematch from a week ago? Anyone? Can anyone envision a scenario where the two schools have already wrapped up their divisions, year after year after year, before playing The Game?
August 26th, 2010 at 10:38 PM ^
But really, is once a decade worth it? If we shared a division, there's no way the meeting could fail to mean something; chances are pretty good that at least three out of four years, it'd have implications for the division title. And you'd still be able to say, "the loser can't go to the Rose Bowl,".....is that really any different than before? By moving them into separate divisions, you're guaranteeing the regular-season game to have the same, very limited impact every year. Limited enough to mean basically nothing.
I just disagree that the rivalry dimension will automatically stay the same. As fans nationwide we've lost the sense that games should be played for the sake of playing them. We simply must have champions. And that means our teams simply must be champions, and I promise you, down the road, someone will express the sentiment that beating OSU was great and all but Iowa or Wisconsin is more important because that's what'll determine the division. Or - worse - "sure, we lost to Ohio State, but we still have a chance at the division and that's what matters." The minute a Michigan fan puts beating Iowa ahead of Ohio State like that, that is nothing less than a travesty.
And if they play in the last game of the season, but that game is the BTCG, the anticipation is gone. Just gone. It lasts a week, as opposed to the three-month buildup we should be getting. The BTCG is the postseason. It's not on the schedule as Ohio State. It's effectively another bowl game. We never played OSU in the "last game of the season" anyway, if you counted the bowl game, so I don't count the BTCG either.
August 26th, 2010 at 11:29 PM ^
Here's the main sticking point in your argument for most people: it is not the Big 10 championship that makes the Michigan/Ohio State game big. Do you care less in years where the Big 10 isn't decided by the game? There are few fans that think of winning the Big 10 first and beating Ohio State second when this game comes around. It is always about beating OSU and the Big 10 championship is just icing on the cake.
At the end of the day the game itself is what matters and all this championship stuff is secondary on that Saturday in November and that is why most of us want it to stay that way. The Game is a self contained event and that's what makes it so special.
August 27th, 2010 at 4:07 PM ^
Ok, I'll admit that I am starting to be pursuaded by the folks here giving reasonable responses. If everyone feels so passionately, maybe I am missing something. And I am not so arrogant or foolish to believe that I know better than everyone else. So, pehaps for the sake of you folks who feel so strongly, maybe Brandon will feel the same way.
August 26th, 2010 at 11:43 PM ^
It actually gives me faith to see you getting negbanged for this because I know I'm not the only sane one left.
August 26th, 2010 at 2:22 PM ^
Part of me wants to believe this is all a joke, and Brandon will say "sike."
What a cluster fuck.
August 26th, 2010 at 2:24 PM ^
It's probably futile (and if already discussed on here I apologize), but does anyone know if David Brandon has an email address that the public can use to send respectful but strongly worded messages about moving The Game? I can't seem to find it if it exists. I have sent Madej an email already.
August 26th, 2010 at 11:48 PM ^
I tried looking for it too but in the end the facebook posted by Brian had the best link...
August 26th, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^
The idea of UM/OSU playing off-campus indoors in front of 30,000 corporate shills with the few true fans stuck up in the end zones is disgusting. An October date is sufficient to break my streak of attending the game.
August 26th, 2010 at 2:36 PM ^
Brandon misses the fact that to knock our rival out of a Big10 title/Rose Bowl chance is even more of a given or likely factor each year with smaller divisions that will be in place. The last game in Nov would likely even have more riding on it. Also I see chances for more rivalries to develope through the title game. Michigan-Nebraska anyone? I agree with Brian that for him to say we are risking that once in a decade back-to-back meeting is a cop-out. I think its more about money than he will admit. Nafta-ish.The greater good. Share the wealth bullshit. And that giant sucking sound coming out of Columbus isn't about money.
On top of that Brandon wants to guarantee Michigan and Ohio State have the toughest schedules year in and year out in the Big 10 by putting them in different divisions. I hope he knows the limb he is going out on with all this. He's throwing the fans and the team under the bus.
Finally.... Tradition? Does that mean anything? Apparently not.
August 26th, 2010 at 2:36 PM ^
Just you wait. It's comin'. If DB feels free to mess with 75 years of tradition, then you can bet that all other supposedly sacred traditional things have bull's-eyes on them, if a slightly larger payoff is predicted by the suits.
Bo is spinning so rapidly in his grave that strange gravitational effects are happening.
August 26th, 2010 at 2:44 PM ^
It's worse than that. It's been played on the last game of the season every year but 1935.
August 27th, 2010 at 4:00 PM ^
No, 1935 is when we started playing OSU at the end of the season. Before then we played the University of Chicago last, and they played Illinois last. (It was after a last-minute win over Chicago, which clinched our first Big Ten title, that Louis Elbel was inspired to write "The Victors.")
August 26th, 2010 at 2:41 PM ^
"I do believe that one of the things people have lost track of in all of the noise is that if Michigan and Ohio State are in the same division, Michigan and Ohio State will never again play for the Big Ten championship -- we will never again play for the Rose Bowl. I think there's a lot of people that just haven't focused on that, and they need to understand that."
Thank you David Brandon. In my silly attempts at reason, I completely misunderstood the singular point that you have been putting across for the past week. Here I was, wondering why you would gladly blow up the greatest rivalry in football based on a three-year revenue projection, why you so dearly cling to the idea that LucasOil Stadium is a more appropriate location for a M-OSU game than Michigan Stadium or the Horseshoe, why a once in five years occurrence is more valuable than a century old tradition of pitting two viscous rivals against one another annually in a game that means much more than sometimes placing a Rose Bowl participant, why you would throw away so much that is already valuable for the hope at getting something of similar value.
August 26th, 2010 at 2:57 PM ^
Because he's a corporate guy, not a football guy. I was initially opposed to his hiring, but his performances and decisions up till now lulled me into thinking that he was going to be OK.
Now, I know my initial suspicions were correct.
Michigan football tradition = pizza sauce.
October UM-OSU games = New Coke.
I cannot imagine this happening if Bo were still alive. I think he'd have strangled DB by now.
August 26th, 2010 at 3:17 PM ^
“I’ve heard that a lot the last couple days: what would Bo (Schembechler) say? Bo hated the idea that Penn State was allowed in the Big Ten. He hated it, he fought it, he thought it was a terrible idea. I love Bo, I owe a lot to Bo, I respect Bo immeasurably, but I can tell you the Big Ten is a much better conference right now that Penn State is in it. Bo would hate the idea that we let Nebraska in the conference. He would hate the idea of splitting into two divisions, and he’d hate the idea that we’d have a championship game to get to the Rose Bowl, as opposed to the way it’s always been. And there are a lot of people out there that feel the same way. …In other words, Harbaugh him, after he's dead. Might as well just spit on his grave.
August 26th, 2010 at 4:18 PM ^
It doesn't matter what Bo thought of adding Penn State, or what he would have thought of adding Nebraska and a title game. What matters is what he would of thought of turning Michigan's regular-season game against Ohio State into one that has less at stake than Michigan's games within its division.
August 26th, 2010 at 4:23 PM ^
Comparing side issues, with the issue that meant the most of anything to Bo, is disingenuous. And really, while he didn't want to make it tougher on Michigan by bringing in PSU, his bigger problem was that it would water down M-OSU by bringing in another power. (Not to mention the biggest problem with it is that the Presidents did it without checking with the Athletic Directors first. Bet Dave would have liked that).
August 26th, 2010 at 9:39 PM ^
why you so dearly cling to the idea that LucasOil Stadium is a more appropriate location for a M-OSU game than Michigan Stadium or the Horseshoe
This is a point that a lot of people haven't really thought about. By the time M and OSU finally do meet up in Indianapolis, I guarantee there will be a ton of articles written about how weird it is and how it's not right that this game makes the on-campus game meaningless.
The Game belongs in Michigan Stadium and Ohio Stadium, and nowhere else.
August 26th, 2010 at 2:49 PM ^
I don't care if they play POD every time a third and short comes around. I don't care if they call Michigan Stadium "Dominoes New Pizza Field." I don't care if they change the mascot to a robotic Bo Schembechler who has a fire breathing penis that he uses to torch Zombie Woody Hayes. I'm fine with black uniforms and turning every game into a night game
But, for God's sake. Not this.
August 26th, 2010 at 3:18 PM ^
before I read your post, but that was fucking hilarious. At least now I'm pissed, but with a grin on my face.
August 26th, 2010 at 3:25 PM ^
"robotic Bo Schembechler who has a fire breathing penis that he uses to torch Zombie Woody Hayes."
It's gold Jerry, gold.
August 26th, 2010 at 2:53 PM ^
He has already sent his message loud and clear. He's not a "Michigan Man", he's a business man. If he was a Michigan Man he would be fighting this instead of just going with it because it gives the richest conference a few more bucks.
August 26th, 2010 at 3:01 PM ^
Well, two wishes. I wish Bo could come back for one day and talk to Brandon about this. And I wish I could be there to hear what he would say. I would be willing to bet that Brandon would be doing anything he can to stop the Big Ten from diminishing such a great rivalry.
August 26th, 2010 at 9:41 PM ^
Brandon wouldn't dare say this if Bo were around. There is just no way.
Maybe someone should ask Lloyd what he thinks?
August 26th, 2010 at 11:55 PM ^
The problem is that while Lloyd is a great guy and pretty good coach, he doesn't have the fire that Bo had, especially not the heights it would take to take on this issue.
August 27th, 2010 at 4:12 PM ^
Lloyd has more fire in his belly than you might think. Ask Drew Sharp.
August 26th, 2010 at 3:03 PM ^
IMHO, this is not a debate about whether people should accept change or not. This is not a debate about how great it would be if UM-OSU played twice in a season (it would be great, if you're asking me). This is about tradition, that simple element that makes college football great, greater than all other sports. Tradition is forged like steel, over years and years of repetition, infused with emotion and intrigue and suspense and love. Tradition has no monetary value. Nay, it is invaluable and irreplaceable. Tradition that is broken does not change, it ceases to exist.
Yes, new tradition can rise from the ashes of the old. But what people have to decide now, while there is still time, is whether they want to be a part of the new tradition like they have been a part of the old tradition. Its not a question of whether I will love Michigan football and all that it encompasses. No, it is a matter of the extent of my love. With this change, I think my childhood memories will die a little inside, forever changing my views about Michigan, the Big Ten, and college football. This change is a major step toward moving the institution of college football closer to professionalism and it makes me sick to my stomach. Is nothing sacred?
To that end, I will be sending a message to the AD, the President, Jim Delaney, and everyone else who I can pinpoint to listen to the fans and alumni. Fans are what makes sports. Not the athletes (though they are a prerequisite), not administrators, and definitely not change. In this case, the fans should rule and our voice needs to be heard. Who will join me? (Picture Blutarsky in Animal House running down the hall in his toga when you read that last line).
August 26th, 2010 at 3:09 PM ^
Seems silly for such mass frustration. UM is just one participant of a 12 member league and to take frutstrations out on Brandon is, quite frankly, just silly. UM has just one vote and I doubt The Game means as much to the 10 non-involved participants that see more value in UM and OSU being in separate divisions.
August 26th, 2010 at 3:32 PM ^
to treat alumni like babies (well, actually, it sort of is, but you get my point in this case), and if the regular-season game is being stripped of having anything real at stake because the other members of the conference want it that way, we have a right to know why. Instead, he's saying he thinks it is a good idea, which is pretty hard to believe.
He works for the University of Michigan, not the Big Ten conference. Same goes for Mary Sue, who presumably had a say in this.
August 26th, 2010 at 3:25 PM ^
We aren't "just one vote." We are Michigan, not Indiana. If we want something related to the most important rivalry game in all of sports we could get it. Further, the rest of the conference should care about The Game because it lends prestige to the rest of the conference.
Brandon represents our interets in this matter. Who the hell else should we direct our anger towards?
The other members shouldn't be so stupid as to want to draw conference boundaries on current or even historical prestige. UM is currently down-do we draw lines based on how we are now, historically, predicting the future or otherwise? OSU could get USC'd someday and fall into a decade-long hole. Then what? Strength of program should NEVER be a consideration in drawing up conferences. Use tradition, history, rivalries, geography or other non-performance based measures.
August 26th, 2010 at 9:44 PM ^
Not to mention that the OSU fanbase is shoulder-to-shoulder with us on this. So it's not just one very important fanbase that's angry, but two - and probably the two biggest ones of all.
August 26th, 2010 at 11:58 PM ^
Join up with Ohio State and pull the dick move (Texas) and say well I'm leaving if you fuck with that game.
August 27th, 2010 at 4:14 PM ^
Why is it a dick move? We joined the conference in the first place because it served our interests. If it doesn't, we have every reason to leave. The Big Ten isn't a charity case.
August 26th, 2010 at 3:19 PM ^
I might be able to live with the placement of Michigan and OSU in different divisions and the game not being played the last week--IF we were getting anything in return for this trashing of tradition.
Obviously there's a lot of negotating going on, and no teams are likely to come out of this completely satisfied with the changes, but what is Michigan--and OSU for that matter--getting in return for making such a huge sacrifice?
If, for example, Nebraska is placed in our division, could we at least push for them to be our final game each year?
If Michigan and OSU are split and the game between them is no longer the last one--and they try to make MSU our final game each year, that's like a lose-lose-lose situation!
August 26th, 2010 at 3:37 PM ^
You'd think that since Brandon has been a part of the rivalry from a young age that he of all people would be most opposed to this bullshit.
August 26th, 2010 at 3:56 PM ^
I can't believe they just don't stick with the change they already made and try it on Thanksgiving Saturday for a few years and see how that pays off. Instead of the weekend before Thanksgiving, when nationally people are busting ass for those precious days off, I thought backing it up a week like this year's game would boost ratings. On Thanksgiving Saturday I would think most people outside Big Ten country would be eating leftovers and looking for football on TV in any form, and we serve them up the greatest game on the planet. Why throw that ratings gold away for a roll of the dice that a rematch happens in some sterile dump of an NFL stadium? I am hoping if this does go through that the outcry is so great that they shitcan it after a couple seasons. They don't write schedules in stone and dumb ideas have a way of exposing themselves over time.
August 26th, 2010 at 4:11 PM ^
Paging Lloyd Carr, paging Lloyd Carr, your decades of service and understanding of the UM-OSU rivalry is desperatly needed. I know he's no Bo but you'd think the only living coach with a UM National Championship would have some weight behind him. We've seen what happens when he just sits idly by - have the fans hate Rich Rod. Lloyd, you may not like RR, you may not like the Adidas uniforms, you may not like allowing players to talk to the media but, God help you, if you don't stand up for the program you helped to maintain and grow Bo is going to get up from his grave and bitch slap you right after he's done beating this shit out of that corporate zombie we have in the AD's office.
August 26th, 2010 at 6:15 PM ^
are the days I can brag about UM and tOSU having the greatest rivalry in all of sports. All of this just makes me a sad panda :(. At least we have 9 more days to bitch about it until the good shit starts.
August 26th, 2010 at 9:46 PM ^
Here go my meager points but at least the sacrifice is made at the altar of reason, not melodrama.
Step back from the ledge and it becomes apparent that there isn't anywhere near this level of outrage on the Buckeye boards (I checked scout). Now why might that be? Bitter as it is to acknowledge, they are secure in their current perch at the top, while fans here thirst for The Game merely for the one sure shot at limelight (and sweet after taste) by perhaps ruining the Bucks' season just short of the championship threshold. IMO, if the positions were reversed, i.e., Ohio State was scrounging near the bottom of the league, there would not be near this level of hysteria (on this board) for a regular season-ender against tosu.
Accept this point of view and it becomes apparent that re-scheduling The Game isn't the dire apocalypse it's being made out to be. Once UM's fortunes reverse, it will matter little when it is played.
August 26th, 2010 at 9:59 PM ^
DCLeopard91 posted this on the frontpage article thread, but it might get buried in the 200+ replies, so here it is again:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's the addy for Big 10 Commish Jim Delany
[email protected]
Michigan--
President Mary Sue Coleman: [email protected] AND
[email protected]
Football (Athletic Dept): [email protected] (attn: Dave Brandon) AND
[email protected]
Ohio State--
President Gordon Gee: [email protected]
AD Gene Smith: [email protected]
August 26th, 2010 at 10:52 PM ^
This whole fiasco is a microcosm of what's wrong in America today. The government (Big 10) is controlled by the corporations (profit), owns the media (Big 10 Network). Always seeking more power and control they pull stunts like (insert here everything illegal of the last 10 years) changing the game, and most people are so dumb/lazy/indifferent that nothing is done about it. Well I challenge everyone to do something, and that means whatever it takes to not screw up this game for money.
When I was in school there was a group for Affirmative Action called B.A.M.N (by any means necessary), that is the kind of stance it will take to stop these greedy bastards from stealing our birthright.
