I'm just not sure how much control he has in the final decision.
landing spot. will be interesting to see how he does.
I'm just not sure how much control he has in the final decision.
But is he such a good little soldier that he can't express a hint of disagreement? Brandon would forever be held in the esteem of Michigan fans if he could somehow show that he isn't Delaney's bitch.
doesn't mean shit, except to the extent a conference-wide decision would hurt Michigan. His client is Michigan. If he wanted to fight the change he would. It's his job.
He was given a choice-tradition or a chance at a slight increase in money? He chose the money. And he knows that the demand for The Game is inelastic-people aren't going to stop watching it because it moved. It will simply lose its prestige and Brandon is apparently OK with that.
Dave Brandon does not need any messages sent to him. Everything that he does/says is very carefully calculated and that's why we like him so much.
Exactly - don't present it as if this is some brilliant move that will make things better.
How do you know that he hasn't?
And there are PLENTY of people in postions of power who do not think before they speak, so I wouldn't necessarily take that quality for granted.
I'm jealous that you're drunk.
Straight shooter, or liar, which is it?
(Anyone else sensing a board meltdown right around the corner?)
I think most people on this board are intelligent enough to know that life is lived in the grey. Not black and white.
So to ask me a question (albeit rhetorical) like that is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
My initial response was to the mob-like notion that a "message must be sent" to Brandon in regards to how he has handled the situation. People have assumed a lot of things about what has gone on behind closed doors at this program for the past two years and we, as Michigan fans, have stood up for our team/people.
Do I think that Brandon's comments/opinion may be different if not for the current allegations and general cloud hanging over the program...absolutely.
His response is unpopular, but highly diplomatic.
How many times does David Brandon have to tell you how he feels, explicitly, before you stop trying to defend him by saying "we don't know what's really going on?" How can something be unpopular, and diplomatic? To who? The Big Ten? He doesn't work for the Big Ten. He works for The University of Michigan. He seems to have forgotten that.
The way that I view "being diplomatic" is maintaing a sense of tact and even-keel even though something may be unpopular.
Clearly you (as well as many others) feel very strongly about this. If I had my choice, I'd choose status quo, but I don't view it as the end of the world either.
Though I think you can be tactful, and still be strong. Brandon doesn't have to go on a board post like rage publicly, but he could strongly get the point across that he is opposed to the idea, and is negotiating to "fix" it. He can keep the even keel by not running around acting like his head is cut off, but he doesn't have to like it. Which it seems he does.
And yes, I feel strongly about it. Because of all the stuff that's happened to the program...the bowl streak, the losing seasons....I feel this is more damaging. That was a big deal, and it was only 40 years of history. Now we're talking of trashing 75 years of history. And I might as well scream now, because if/when it happens, it won't help.
It will be ugly.
Brian's right: this fait accompli and this is just PR they're pushing to try and make a shit sandwich more palatable. I'm sorry, but no amount of Grey Poupon is going to make my taste buds dance for this turd. The fact that three intelligent people who are knowledgeable about the conference can sit in a room and come to this conclusion is staggering. Delany should get shit canned for this travesty, but he won't. As far as I'm concerned, this undoes all the good that he's done over the years.
to know that from this point forward we will never play Ohio State for a trip to the Rose Bowl again, never play them for the Big Ten championship again, that doesn't sound good to me.
This is true. However, think of what IS at stake if they're in the same division:
Oh, it's much worse than that. So, in order to have them play for the Rose Bowl a couple times a decade, we're going to split them up into separate divsions. This means:
A) If we are in seperate divisions, at least half of OUR division won't have to play tOSU. This is like us having the same win/loss as MSU, except we played non-conference foes Notre Dame and Oregon while they had snacky-time on Northern Michigan and Michigan Tech (what, they are playing everyone in the state now, right?). Why should half of our division get away with not playing tOSU while we play them? Put us in the same division so that The Game counts, winner take all style, for our half of the conference.
B) In the same division, playing our last game against tOSU likely means the winner has another week to showcase why they are likely playing for a national championship and the BCS should select them. Look at Florida and the handjob the CBS gave them in the SEC Championship Game in 2006. Gary Danielson still has a little Urban on the corner of his mouth from that. What fan wouldn't want The Game to be the last one played by their rival until bowl season? What fan wouldn't want to know that they whipped their rival to earn the right to play for the Big Twelven title?
C) Tradition is important. Every year I miss a saturday in white tail gun season because of The Game. My wife goes shopping with her mother and sisters and there are no kids in sight. Even the dogs go to a neighbor's house. Once a year, for a couple of hours, I will turn off my fire pager, turn off my cell phone, and I'm entranced by what happens in Ann Arbor or Columbus. I'm sorry if your house burns down, call the next township over. It only happens once a year. On the same day. For all the marbles. No matter what marbles they are.
D) David Brandon knows better than this. It hurts our image to give in to this and he is an image man. We are defined by our actions and The Game is one of those. Do the right thing and reattach your man-bag, Mr. Brandon. Picking your battles is a good idea, but sometimes you have to fight those battles. This is one of them. Sack up or go back to selling pizza.
I liked him to start, but I will literally illogically blame every negetive thing to happen in any UM sport on him b/c of this. I realize thats not a mature way to go about things, but its the truth.
That's where I am. Who'd a thunk his pimp hand would come down on Michigan football?
... SEC ingrates:
... but I will literally illogically blame every negetive thing to happen in any UM sport on him b/c of this...
Brandon is handling a challenging situation with directness and diplomacy. There are no easy answers in the new CFB world order.
I used to hope the AD would read this board from time to time. Because of posts like this I hope it's blocked by the proxy server at Schembechler Hall.
The guy gave up a seven figure salary and (possibly) nine figures in stock options to have this sort of crap throw at him, by (alleged) Michigan fans!
I realize its stupid and illogical (as I state in the post), but the truth is prior to this I would have been the first to make excuses for minor hicups. Like I said, I'm just being honest here. Can you honestly say that you have objective opinions about someone's actions that has done something to piss you off royally in the past?
Edit: also, as others have said, the decision pisses me off, as well as the way they are trying to feed it to us like its a good thing. If he came out and said "Well, we got fucked here by the conference and we're going to have to live with it". That would sit a lot better with me than the bullshit he's feeding us like we're some dumbass groupies that will automatically take on his opinion.
You made it clear that you were giving an irrational feeling, that may have been a bit tongue in cheek.
People are just trying stick you for it because they can come to terms with how wrong their opinion is.
A challenging situation? No. Maybe a controversial one that'll potentially get some other people kinda PO'ed at him (Delaney)? Yes. I don't know about you but I'd be that guy that actually stands up for something despite the money (even though it's minimal for UM/OSU to be separated). So far I've had a lot of respect for Mr. Brandon. He's done pretty much everything right in my opinion and then some (scoreboards supposedly going in extremely soon, whether it's realistic is another manner but I'd be kinda pissed if he said that and didn't look at if it was actually a possibility). But this is the type of shit that no matter what you've done beforehand, you automatically go to the bottom of my shit list. I'm sorry but that's unacceptable to try to pull some bullshit out to cover your ass about the Rose Bowl. We both know that while it meant a good deal, it was more than that and you lose a hell of a lot more changing the game to mid-season than keeping it at the end of the season. This is where you build true respect, the respect that Bo had. When you stand up to your superiors, the media, the crowd and you speak against for something you believe in and know is right.
Also, yeah he did give up a pretty big salary for this job. But he's filthy rich, has enough money to buy anything he wants, probably is still making good cash on Domino's (among other investments), I guarantee he has a fair share of stock in them as well and for all we know this is more of a political move than anything. Do I think that's the reason? No. I think he wanted a change of pace and wanted to take things to the next level in his book. But money isn't an issue for him and should be a non factor.
And it shows why mgoblog has gone down the toilet. He's getting pos banged for saying that he will never forgot Dave Brandon for this and this is an OUTRAGE!
Dave Brandon knows more about the rivalry than anyone on this board. Have you ever played osu? Has Brian?
Oh right all of us are just armchair quarterbacks.
Brandon knows what it's like to play OSU at the end of the season with everything on the line.
Brandon does not, however, know what it's like to play OSU in the middle of the season, when the two teams aren't in the same division. It's never happened, so how could he? He is assuming (rather naïvely) that it'll be just the same "because it's UM and OSU." On this, I believe he is very wrong.
OSU was not always our archrival. Originally, it was the University of Chicago that we focused our season on. (It was after a win over Chicago, to clinch our first Big Ten title, that Louis Elbel was inspired to compose "The Victors.") OSU has become our archrival since the rivalry became an annual end-of-the-year game in 1935. It became the Game when it was the one that always ended the season, so we could point to it all season. Just as the date change caused it to be upgraded in importance, if it stops being played then, it can easily be downgraded.
You're right. Marques Slocum knows more than all of us too about the rivalry because he actually played for Michigan...
And he's got a fuck lion, so come fuck wit' him.
Brandon has this exactly right. He doesnt need any letters sent to him. I really wish the 'I hate change' crowd, perhaps the same folks who decried any change to the Big House, would give it a rest. Change to 'the game' was inevitable when we brought in Nebraska, when divisions became a foregone conclusion. Moving the game and putting UM/OSU in differnt divisions is the best compromise. Brandon once again has nailed it. Experience the change before you write it off. People will get used to it. It will maintain its luster, have some faith. As long as UM and OSU are both powerhouses, the game will be 'the game'. Decrying the change before it has happened seems a little insecure.
I, and a lot of others, don't hate change. I hate THIS CHANGE.
I've been a staunch supporter of virtually every change that has been made wrt the football program, but this shit is outrageous. Fucking outrageous.
Brandon has this right. I was hoping that we were going to end up in different divisions myself. Change is going to happen and keeping us in the same division just makes the game play second fiddle to the title game every year.
Putting us in separate divisions now makes the MSU game more important that "the game."
Putting us in separate divisions now makes the ________ game more important than "the game." (fill in blank with any inter-division team)
Does nobody else see that?
What would you rather see?
a) Near 100% chance that every year "The Game" has a bearing on who plays for the Championship, Michigan/OSU v somebody else. (So 100% chance for a meaningful game every year).
b) 0% chance that the "The Game" determines who makes it to the Championship game. 20% chance they cross paths a second time and play for Championship. (So a 20% chance they actually play a meaningful game in a given year.)
It's not money driving this, it's 10 other whiney schools driving this. If Michigan and OSU are in the same division, the other four teams are basically screwed as far as chances of making it to the championship game go. Which isn't much different than the Big11 structure in place today.
Suddenly I want to turn into Texas and start bullying the other schools. What a giant mess this all is.
Moving the date of the game is what will do all of that. Not putting us in different divisions. I actually was hoping that we could keep the game at the end of our schedule. I mean the chances that we will have a rematch one week later are not that high anyways and if and when it does happen it will mean that we will be both having great seasons similar to 2006.
The date change is the biggest kick in the teeth, but putting us in separate divisions will hurt the rivalry as well. We will no longer be competiting in the standings, keeping an eye on each others' games all season. That will be a bigger change than you think. Basically, the Big Ten is going to split into two six-team conferences that play a playoff in December. It will hardly be a unified conference.
Being in separate divisions is the bigger kick in the teeth. The date change is brutal, but a meaningless cross-divisional game even if they kept it at the end of the year is where the real damage will be done to the rivalry over time.
That we should allow the final game to be MSU, under any circumstance. If it can't be OSU, I think it should be Nebraska even though that virtually guarantees us the toughest schedule in the conference every year.
I don't know this as fact, but I would assume that OSU and UM most likely have the largest and most lucrative (traveling, merchandise, etc) fan bases in the Big 10. Therefore, from a Big 10 financial perspective its not necessarily about getting a rematch of those two teams in the championship game (which they would love and make a killing on), but at least having one of them. In opposite divisions, they aren't mutually exclusive and thus have a better chance of at least one making it (don't have the time to crunch the actual stats on that, but would be interesting to know what the actual change in probability of at least of UM/OSU making it is). Basically, it decreases the probability of a dud championship game.
I'm completely against the change mind you. Money be damned.
... keeping us in the same division just makes the game play second fiddle to the title game every year.
Yes, but putting us in separate divisions just makes the game play sixth fiddle to the title game every year...
conference championship is then second fiddle to the BCS bowl game that the winner will be going to which is how playoffs are supposed to work. I initially liked conference expansion because it meant it would be one step closer to a playoff system, but now I'm not so sure.
This has to be you? Because, this sounds just as stupid and sackless as his article over on which shall hence remain unviewed by this fan. Accepting Change - when it's regressive in its changes ... well, that's cowardice in my book. Go Blue!
The blatant ignorance to history baffles me here. Remember the OU/Nebraska rivalry? Yeah me neither. This is literally the exact same situation and the powers that be seem perfectly happy to repeat it. It will not be the same, the game will not be The Game it will be a game, saying change is inevitable doesn't make it right.
1 in 10 people didn't like the changes to the Stadium. But 1 in 10 actually like the idea of moving The Game.
Is this topic just bring out the contrarians, or just the stupid people?
Is this topic just bring out the contrarians, or just the stupid people?
That's a bit much dont you think?
My point is that its not when the game is played that makes it 'the game'. Timing has contributed, but its not essential. There is more history there, more to the rivalry than when it has been played. We need to have more faith. The game may need to be hyped up a bit more for a few years, but my guess is that it will eventually not be about when it is played at all, but about the other aspects. The timiing aspect will eventually be forgotten. And that's fine. Other aspects will make up for it. It's bigger than the timing. It's an institution. Let the institutional forces do their thing.
I really wish the 'I hate change' crowd, perhaps the same folks who decried any change to the Big House, would give it a rest.
Was a bit much?
I didn't neg you for it, but it seems like you haven't even read Brian's Main Page Post. Or still just completely disagree with it, which I acknowledge as possible. Decisions like this make me lose what faith I have left. The Game shouldn't need to be hyped. The institutional forces, of The Game, are all the things around it. As Brian pointed out. I can't take "well, just take it, let it happen, and see how it works out." It may work for you. More power.
...but it seems like you haven't even read Brian's Main Page Post. Or still just completely disagree with it, which I acknowledge as possible...As Brian pointed out. I can't take "well, just take it, let it happen, and see how it works out." It may work for you. More power.
Wow. So you make your arguments through Brian. I don't let Brian, or anyone else, think for me. This puts quite a new spin on your calling me stupid. Nevermind the whole institutional argument, I could not care less what 'you' think.
As I quoted, the fact that you compare the huge number of people calling for the greatest of all Michigan traditions to stand to the small minority that didn't like the Stadium changes was, well, stupid. It's the worst kind of straw man.
And why should I go over and retype everything BRIAN JUST SAID. Or I or many others have typed time and time again. Just the fact that your points are all contrary to his, and he shows why you're wrong, pretty much does the job for me.
And it's funny that you've been around long enough to acquire that many points, and think I like to parrot Brian. I wish everyone else on here thought that about me too. I'd probably get in less beefs.
But feel free to quit when you're losing the argument. I wish you had before you started.
But feel free to quit when you're losing the argument. I wish you had before you started.
Losing the argument? That's the problem - you think its possible to lose an argument based on preference, based on opinoin, based on perspective of tradeoffs. Sorry, but its not.
And my not hanging around here continuing to debate with someone on the internets all day is due to having a life. Again, another very mature approach on your part. Its been a real pleasure.
But since you obviously do, to say it's all just a matter of opinion is silly. And that there aren't logical opinions and ones just based on feeling, with different values. There's been tons of evidence presented here on how it will degrade the rivalry. Just saying "It's just my opinion and I like it" doesn't really add tons of weight to your argument.
And I just think it's funny that you start being insulting, with bad correlations, and then feel all bad and superior when it's turned around on you. But you're on right now, so you must not have that much more life...
Wrong. The timing is essential. It's the biggest game on the schedule and (probably) always will be, which means that once you put it in October, what's left? Every loss is easier to take because there's still the chance of beating Ohio State. Every win is more fun because it makes us feel like there's a better chance of beating Ohio State. Say we beat OSU in October. You know what'll happen next: "well, it's nice we beat Ohio State, but the biggest game is Wisconsin, because that decides the division!" If anyone ever says that, and they will, then we just blew 100 years of tradition, and for what?
I simply dont agree, but I respect your rational explanation of the timiing issue. I agree that it is a factor, but there have to be tradeoffs. I think the UM/OSU game will still be the biggest game, even if there are games left to be played. The others will be important, but not as important. The rivalry dimension of 'the game' will never be lost. 'The game' will be important, but different reasons, and for reasons over and above why the subsequent games are important.
UM/OSU will never again regularly play in the last game of the season. Never. That is gone. And we see the resulting tradeoffs differently. I see the timing as a tradeoff worthwhile of not having UM and OSU in the same divisions and potentially meeting for a second time, yet not two weeks in a row, in the title game every once and a while. I don't want to never see them play for the Big Ten title again, or never play in the last game of the season again.
But really, is once a decade worth it? If we shared a division, there's no way the meeting could fail to mean something; chances are pretty good that at least three out of four years, it'd have implications for the division title. And you'd still be able to say, "the loser can't go to the Rose Bowl,".....is that really any different than before? By moving them into separate divisions, you're guaranteeing the regular-season game to have the same, very limited impact every year. Limited enough to mean basically nothing.
I just disagree that the rivalry dimension will automatically stay the same. As fans nationwide we've lost the sense that games should be played for the sake of playing them. We simply must have champions. And that means our teams simply must be champions, and I promise you, down the road, someone will express the sentiment that beating OSU was great and all but Iowa or Wisconsin is more important because that's what'll determine the division. Or - worse - "sure, we lost to Ohio State, but we still have a chance at the division and that's what matters." The minute a Michigan fan puts beating Iowa ahead of Ohio State like that, that is nothing less than a travesty.
And if they play in the last game of the season, but that game is the BTCG, the anticipation is gone. Just gone. It lasts a week, as opposed to the three-month buildup we should be getting. The BTCG is the postseason. It's not on the schedule as Ohio State. It's effectively another bowl game. We never played OSU in the "last game of the season" anyway, if you counted the bowl game, so I don't count the BTCG either.
Here's the main sticking point in your argument for most people: it is not the Big 10 championship that makes the Michigan/Ohio State game big. Do you care less in years where the Big 10 isn't decided by the game? There are few fans that think of winning the Big 10 first and beating Ohio State second when this game comes around. It is always about beating OSU and the Big 10 championship is just icing on the cake.
At the end of the day the game itself is what matters and all this championship stuff is secondary on that Saturday in November and that is why most of us want it to stay that way. The Game is a self contained event and that's what makes it so special.
Ok, I'll admit that I am starting to be pursuaded by the folks here giving reasonable responses. If everyone feels so passionately, maybe I am missing something. And I am not so arrogant or foolish to believe that I know better than everyone else. So, pehaps for the sake of you folks who feel so strongly, maybe Brandon will feel the same way.
It actually gives me faith to see you getting negbanged for this because I know I'm not the only sane one left.
Part of me wants to believe this is all a joke, and Brandon will say "sike."
What a cluster fuck.
It's probably futile (and if already discussed on here I apologize), but does anyone know if David Brandon has an email address that the public can use to send respectful but strongly worded messages about moving The Game? I can't seem to find it if it exists. I have sent Madej an email already.
The idea of UM/OSU playing off-campus indoors in front of 30,000 corporate shills with the few true fans stuck up in the end zones is disgusting. An October date is sufficient to break my streak of attending the game.
Brandon misses the fact that to knock our rival out of a Big10 title/Rose Bowl chance is even more of a given or likely factor each year with smaller divisions that will be in place. The last game in Nov would likely even have more riding on it. Also I see chances for more rivalries to develope through the title game. Michigan-Nebraska anyone? I agree with Brian that for him to say we are risking that once in a decade back-to-back meeting is a cop-out. I think its more about money than he will admit. Nafta-ish.The greater good. Share the wealth bullshit. And that giant sucking sound coming out of Columbus isn't about money.
On top of that Brandon wants to guarantee Michigan and Ohio State have the toughest schedules year in and year out in the Big 10 by putting them in different divisions. I hope he knows the limb he is going out on with all this. He's throwing the fans and the team under the bus.
Finally.... Tradition? Does that mean anything? Apparently not.
Just you wait. It's comin'. If DB feels free to mess with 75 years of tradition, then you can bet that all other supposedly sacred traditional things have bull's-eyes on them, if a slightly larger payoff is predicted by the suits.
Bo is spinning so rapidly in his grave that strange gravitational effects are happening.
It's worse than that. It's been played on the last game of the season every year but 1935.
No, 1935 is when we started playing OSU at the end of the season. Before then we played the University of Chicago last, and they played Illinois last. (It was after a last-minute win over Chicago, which clinched our first Big Ten title, that Louis Elbel was inspired to write "The Victors.")
"I do believe that one of the things people have lost track of in all of the noise is that if Michigan and Ohio State are in the same division, Michigan and Ohio State will never again play for the Big Ten championship -- we will never again play for the Rose Bowl. I think there's a lot of people that just haven't focused on that, and they need to understand that."
Thank you David Brandon. In my silly attempts at reason, I completely misunderstood the singular point that you have been putting across for the past week. Here I was, wondering why you would gladly blow up the greatest rivalry in football based on a three-year revenue projection, why you so dearly cling to the idea that LucasOil Stadium is a more appropriate location for a M-OSU game than Michigan Stadium or the Horseshoe, why a once in five years occurrence is more valuable than a century old tradition of pitting two viscous rivals against one another annually in a game that means much more than sometimes placing a Rose Bowl participant, why you would throw away so much that is already valuable for the hope at getting something of similar value.
Because he's a corporate guy, not a football guy. I was initially opposed to his hiring, but his performances and decisions up till now lulled me into thinking that he was going to be OK.
Now, I know my initial suspicions were correct.
Michigan football tradition = pizza sauce.
October UM-OSU games = New Coke.
I cannot imagine this happening if Bo were still alive. I think he'd have strangled DB by now.
“I’ve heard that a lot the last couple days: what would Bo (Schembechler) say? Bo hated the idea that Penn State was allowed in the Big Ten. He hated it, he fought it, he thought it was a terrible idea. I love Bo, I owe a lot to Bo, I respect Bo immeasurably, but I can tell you the Big Ten is a much better conference right now that Penn State is in it. Bo would hate the idea that we let Nebraska in the conference. He would hate the idea of splitting into two divisions, and he’d hate the idea that we’d have a championship game to get to the Rose Bowl, as opposed to the way it’s always been. And there are a lot of people out there that feel the same way. …
In other words, Harbaugh him, after he's dead. Might as well just spit on his grave.
It doesn't matter what Bo thought of adding Penn State, or what he would have thought of adding Nebraska and a title game. What matters is what he would of thought of turning Michigan's regular-season game against Ohio State into one that has less at stake than Michigan's games within its division.
Comparing side issues, with the issue that meant the most of anything to Bo, is disingenuous. And really, while he didn't want to make it tougher on Michigan by bringing in PSU, his bigger problem was that it would water down M-OSU by bringing in another power. (Not to mention the biggest problem with it is that the Presidents did it without checking with the Athletic Directors first. Bet Dave would have liked that).
why you so dearly cling to the idea that LucasOil Stadium is a more appropriate location for a M-OSU game than Michigan Stadium or the Horseshoe
This is a point that a lot of people haven't really thought about. By the time M and OSU finally do meet up in Indianapolis, I guarantee there will be a ton of articles written about how weird it is and how it's not right that this game makes the on-campus game meaningless.
The Game belongs in Michigan Stadium and Ohio Stadium, and nowhere else.
before I read your post, but that was fucking hilarious. At least now I'm pissed, but with a grin on my face.
"robotic Bo Schembechler who has a fire breathing penis that he uses to torch Zombie Woody Hayes."
It's gold Jerry, gold.
He has already sent his message loud and clear. He's not a "Michigan Man", he's a business man. If he was a Michigan Man he would be fighting this instead of just going with it because it gives the richest conference a few more bucks.
Well, two wishes. I wish Bo could come back for one day and talk to Brandon about this. And I wish I could be there to hear what he would say. I would be willing to bet that Brandon would be doing anything he can to stop the Big Ten from diminishing such a great rivalry.
Brandon wouldn't dare say this if Bo were around. There is just no way.
Maybe someone should ask Lloyd what he thinks?
The problem is that while Lloyd is a great guy and pretty good coach, he doesn't have the fire that Bo had, especially not the heights it would take to take on this issue.
Lloyd has more fire in his belly than you might think. Ask Drew Sharp.
IMHO, this is not a debate about whether people should accept change or not. This is not a debate about how great it would be if UM-OSU played twice in a season (it would be great, if you're asking me). This is about tradition, that simple element that makes college football great, greater than all other sports. Tradition is forged like steel, over years and years of repetition, infused with emotion and intrigue and suspense and love. Tradition has no monetary value. Nay, it is invaluable and irreplaceable. Tradition that is broken does not change, it ceases to exist.
Yes, new tradition can rise from the ashes of the old. But what people have to decide now, while there is still time, is whether they want to be a part of the new tradition like they have been a part of the old tradition. Its not a question of whether I will love Michigan football and all that it encompasses. No, it is a matter of the extent of my love. With this change, I think my childhood memories will die a little inside, forever changing my views about Michigan, the Big Ten, and college football. This change is a major step toward moving the institution of college football closer to professionalism and it makes me sick to my stomach. Is nothing sacred?
To that end, I will be sending a message to the AD, the President, Jim Delaney, and everyone else who I can pinpoint to listen to the fans and alumni. Fans are what makes sports. Not the athletes (though they are a prerequisite), not administrators, and definitely not change. In this case, the fans should rule and our voice needs to be heard. Who will join me? (Picture Blutarsky in Animal House running down the hall in his toga when you read that last line).
Seems silly for such mass frustration. UM is just one participant of a 12 member league and to take frutstrations out on Brandon is, quite frankly, just silly. UM has just one vote and I doubt The Game means as much to the 10 non-involved participants that see more value in UM and OSU being in separate divisions.
to treat alumni like babies (well, actually, it sort of is, but you get my point in this case), and if the regular-season game is being stripped of having anything real at stake because the other members of the conference want it that way, we have a right to know why. Instead, he's saying he thinks it is a good idea, which is pretty hard to believe.
He works for the University of Michigan, not the Big Ten conference. Same goes for Mary Sue, who presumably had a say in this.
We aren't "just one vote." We are Michigan, not Indiana. If we want something related to the most important rivalry game in all of sports we could get it. Further, the rest of the conference should care about The Game because it lends prestige to the rest of the conference.
Brandon represents our interets in this matter. Who the hell else should we direct our anger towards?
The other members shouldn't be so stupid as to want to draw conference boundaries on current or even historical prestige. UM is currently down-do we draw lines based on how we are now, historically, predicting the future or otherwise? OSU could get USC'd someday and fall into a decade-long hole. Then what? Strength of program should NEVER be a consideration in drawing up conferences. Use tradition, history, rivalries, geography or other non-performance based measures.
Not to mention that the OSU fanbase is shoulder-to-shoulder with us on this. So it's not just one very important fanbase that's angry, but two - and probably the two biggest ones of all.
Join up with Ohio State and pull the dick move (Texas) and say well I'm leaving if you fuck with that game.
Why is it a dick move? We joined the conference in the first place because it served our interests. If it doesn't, we have every reason to leave. The Big Ten isn't a charity case.
I might be able to live with the placement of Michigan and OSU in different divisions and the game not being played the last week--IF we were getting anything in return for this trashing of tradition.
Obviously there's a lot of negotating going on, and no teams are likely to come out of this completely satisfied with the changes, but what is Michigan--and OSU for that matter--getting in return for making such a huge sacrifice?
If, for example, Nebraska is placed in our division, could we at least push for them to be our final game each year?
If Michigan and OSU are split and the game between them is no longer the last one--and they try to make MSU our final game each year, that's like a lose-lose-lose situation!
I can't believe they just don't stick with the change they already made and try it on Thanksgiving Saturday for a few years and see how that pays off. Instead of the weekend before Thanksgiving, when nationally people are busting ass for those precious days off, I thought backing it up a week like this year's game would boost ratings. On Thanksgiving Saturday I would think most people outside Big Ten country would be eating leftovers and looking for football on TV in any form, and we serve them up the greatest game on the planet. Why throw that ratings gold away for a roll of the dice that a rematch happens in some sterile dump of an NFL stadium? I am hoping if this does go through that the outcry is so great that they shitcan it after a couple seasons. They don't write schedules in stone and dumb ideas have a way of exposing themselves over time.
Paging Lloyd Carr, paging Lloyd Carr, your decades of service and understanding of the UM-OSU rivalry is desperatly needed. I know he's no Bo but you'd think the only living coach with a UM National Championship would have some weight behind him. We've seen what happens when he just sits idly by - have the fans hate Rich Rod. Lloyd, you may not like RR, you may not like the Adidas uniforms, you may not like allowing players to talk to the media but, God help you, if you don't stand up for the program you helped to maintain and grow Bo is going to get up from his grave and bitch slap you right after he's done beating this shit out of that corporate zombie we have in the AD's office.
are the days I can brag about UM and tOSU having the greatest rivalry in all of sports. All of this just makes me a sad panda :(. At least we have 9 more days to bitch about it until the good shit starts.
Here go my meager points but at least the sacrifice is made at the altar of reason, not melodrama.
Step back from the ledge and it becomes apparent that there isn't anywhere near this level of outrage on the Buckeye boards (I checked scout). Now why might that be? Bitter as it is to acknowledge, they are secure in their current perch at the top, while fans here thirst for The Game merely for the one sure shot at limelight (and sweet after taste) by perhaps ruining the Bucks' season just short of the championship threshold. IMO, if the positions were reversed, i.e., Ohio State was scrounging near the bottom of the league, there would not be near this level of hysteria (on this board) for a regular season-ender against tosu.
Accept this point of view and it becomes apparent that re-scheduling The Game isn't the dire apocalypse it's being made out to be. Once UM's fortunes reverse, it will matter little when it is played.
DCLeopard91 posted this on the frontpage article thread, but it might get buried in the 200+ replies, so here it is again:
Here's the addy for Big 10 Commish Jim Delany
President Mary Sue Coleman: [email protected] AND
Football (Athletic Dept): [email protected] (attn: Dave Brandon) AND
This whole fiasco is a microcosm of what's wrong in America today. The government (Big 10) is controlled by the corporations (profit), owns the media (Big 10 Network). Always seeking more power and control they pull stunts like (insert here everything illegal of the last 10 years) changing the game, and most people are so dumb/lazy/indifferent that nothing is done about it. Well I challenge everyone to do something, and that means whatever it takes to not screw up this game for money.
When I was in school there was a group for Affirmative Action called B.A.M.N (by any means necessary), that is the kind of stance it will take to stop these greedy bastards from stealing our birthright.