Who is thread directed towards? Everyone I know and MGoBlog in general is super excited about this team.
Mens Bball- Are you a believer now?
He's referencing all of the people who said that the preseason ranking was way too high. This is not the best way of doing that, though.
I think the pre-season ranking was too high; it was based on speculation of how well the freshmen would perform. Look at UK for an example of high rankings based on projected freshman stars.
So far, the Wolverines have proven that they deserve to be in the conversation. They pass the "eye test;" they look as talented as any team we have seen in maize and blue for a long time. I thought it would take them a few months to fulfill their potential as a team, but this version of the Wolverines already play like they have been together for years. The Big Ten schedule and the NCAA Tournament will be the determining factors, though.
A number two ranking means a team deserves to be in the Final Four. Unlike football, teams are allowed an opportunity to prove where they should be ranked where they should prove it: on the court. This team does look like it can make it to the Final Four with a few breaks, but we'll see how it goes later in the season.
Are they the second-best team in the country? Time will tell. But do they deserve their ranking right now based on record and SOS? I think they do.
There is a fairly significant contingent of the fan base that essentially refuses to accept the team is legitimate until we play osu. It's just frustrating because obviously everyone will have a better view then... But it's just annoying when they are more critical of their own team than even our rivals are of our own team - with really nothing to justify their level of skepticism.
I feel like it's justified to be somewhat skeptical of just how good we are, given that the overwhelming majority of MGoBlog users (if not all of us) endured the huge letdowns after our 4-0/5-0/6-0 in football.
I think this team looks damn good, can compete with any team in the country, and I believe the #2 ranking is justified as well. But I completely understand skepticism on the part of any fan, if only because we've been conditioned to feel this way after the past few football seasons.
I think a lot of us are just simply not used to being in the same conversation as Duke, Kentucky, UNC, et al. Kids who are in college now were too young to remember the Fab Five days and hadn't even been born when we won it all in '89. Even for those of us who do remember those days, the memories have been buried by years of sanction-riddled mediocrity. It's the opposite of delusion.
We will obviously learn a lot more once we get into the conference schedule. If we play as well as we have been against Ohio and the likes, then the sky is the limit. Realistically, the freshmen probably will come down to earth a little bit at some point, but hopefully it won't be during an important game/stretch.
Nope, we suck. Not even a top 50 team.
Get back to me half way thru Jan. I want to see them against top 10 teams before I think there a 1 seed type of team
Do you apply this rigid standard to all
Teams before you can view them as truly legitimate? Why can't we extrapolate at all based on what we have seen so far? We haven't lost to a team like butler who was down 3 players like Indiana did...we have taken care of business like we are supposed to. It's not out fault nc state was overrated and costed us a marquee matchup.
I would say yes I am a believer now. It will be interesting when we play Ohio State, Michigan State and Indiana, but there is no denying that this year's team is pretty damn good.
We won't go undefeated, but we will definitely be in the thick of things there at the end.
If they lose even one game, I will consider this season as a failure.
I definitely am excited about this team, but whether we are #2 in the country is a different story. We still get sloppy with the ball at times, we lost a key frontcourt piece in Horford, and we have yet to show that we can put away a decent team without at least some annoyance.
Is this team capable of making a Tournament run and playing up to their ranking? Sure, but the freshmen have to do a lot of growing (it would be nice if McGary got more aggressive in the post and on the boards), Hardaway needs to find his shot on a more consistent basis, Burke has to continue being Burke, and we have to avoid the injury bug.
That said, I LOVE watching this team and definitely excited to see what they are capable of when B1G basketball gets underway!
Michigan is ranked #12 in turnover %. They do a good job of taking care of the ball so I don't see the problem. TO are part of the game and to expect a team not to turn the ball over is unrealistic.
I'm not saying they don't. I'm saying that "at times" they can be sloppy. That #12 ranking is deceptive to the extent that we haven't faced any high-end defenses yet. It will drop once we play B1G competition.
My comments were about things that could go wrong. As a Philly sports fan, I've learned to enjoy the success but be very clear-eyed about the possibility of less than full success.
This is a team that COULD win it all. But there are certain things that could go wrong that would prevent that, such as sloppiness among players not named Burke.
Pittsburgh is ranked 18th in defensive efficiency, Kansas St is 38th. JB team always take care of the ball. This is no different. It won't drop at all. Michigan has never had more than 17% in Turnover %. Your assumption that it will drop is false.
Some people are just never happy. Sad for them.
The way I look at it is, this team is much more talented than the teams we've had in recent history--and those teams in recent history were able to compete with, and sometimes even defeat, opponents like Duke, Ohio State, and MSU. If the 2010-11 team could take Duke to the wire in the NCAA tournament, then why shouldn't I believe this team capable of beating anyone in the country?
All I will say is I would love to play Duke tommorow.
What about today?
We've played 11 games and still don't have a shut out. Our defense is porous. Just saying....
I blame Al Borges
We sort of ease into the B10 schedule, which is nice. Will need to see if this team has another gear to continue to perform against much-improved competition, and in more hostile venues. Poise will be a key factor. Have seen that to some extent already, but that is a virtue that will need to continue to improve as they go forward.
We may ease in to the Big 10, but as of Jan. 15, it's on for the next month. @ OSU, @Minny, Purdue, @ Illinois, Northwestern, @ Indiana, OSU, @Wisc, @MSU.After that, it eases up considerably, with home games against MSU and Indiana (to finish the season) the toughest tests. Given our schedule so far, with a bunch of wins over pretty good teams, but no elite teams, I'd think a record with 5 losses or fewer through the regular season, maybe 6 losses if we win the tournament, should put us in line for a #1 seed.
As a reference, MSU got a #1 seed last year with 7 losses after winning the Big 10 tournament, and the league is stronger this year.
Thinking further, the #1 seeds may be harder to come by this year than last, if early season impressions hold (which they don't always):
1. Duke (great resume and a pretty weak ACC with UNC stumbling and NC State not seeming to live up to expectations),
2. Syracuse or Louisville out of the Big East (Syracuse hasn't played anyone, Louisville looks solid, even with their center hurt).
3. Arizona (now has a good win over Florida, a road win over Clemson, and will play in a very poor Pac 12 ... though a couple of losses could derail their bid).
4. Michigan/Indiana/OSU, whomever has the better resume, with the possibility of a second #1 if any of the above stumble. The main competition for this second #1 being Florida.
Florida outplayed them on their home court. Arizona pulled off a few miracle steals to win the game.. but if that game was at Florida, I suspect it woulda been a 10ish point Florida win.
Besides Flordia is #1 in Kenpom and Arizona is #13.
I'm just thinking that the Pac12 is really weak and they could conceivably have 1or 2 losses at season's end. That kind of record and a win over what looks to be the best team in the SEC would look pretty good to the committee (I totally agree about the nature of that win).
at this point. I guess we should be excited.
I think we're good and definitely top 10 but I'm waiting for the BIG season until I believe we're legitimately ranked that high.
If we aren't #2 then who should be? Legit question, not trying to be a dick
If you want to go on pure resume of undefeated teams, I guess you could make a case for Arizona. Their win over Florida is better than anyone we've beaten (though it was more about Florida gagging the game away than anything else) and they beat Clemson away (which is stretching "good win") or maybe Illinois (wins @ Gonzaga and home to Butler).
That's about it, and both of those are really marginal cases.
has one point wins over Hawaii in OT and Gardner-Webb. At Gonzaga is a good win, but I like our overall resume a lot better.
I will never forget the day after that loss to Minnesota during the 2010-2011 season. Sitting at 1-6 in the B1G after missing the tournament the previous year. I started reading things on this board and others insinuating Beilein should be fired, that he could never recruit at an elite level, and that the program was going nowhere. I let it sink in for a few days and I was believing this to be true.
All I can say is I am a fucking idiot.
I still think the best UM team I ever saw was the 1992-93 unit when the Fab Five were sophomores, plus we still had guys like Riley, Voskuil, and Pelinka on the team. When that team lost in the NCAA final, it was a legitimate disappointment.
Just in terms of raw talent, I don't think our current team is as good as that 92-93 squad. But then again, who is?
I was very disappointed by that lost. I thought there was no way we would lose to UNC with the team we had. You go through both of their lineups and it has always seemed crazy to me we lost that game. Just think that the talent was very different but maybe that's because of seeing the careers that the Fab five had compared to the players on UNC in the NBA
The teams are hard to compare. Our current team is incredibly talented and expertly coached. Execution and shooting have been as good as can be expected. We have a bunch of extraordinarily talented players contributing to a more superior team product.
The Fab 5 won on brute force, athleticism and intimidation. I don't remember the same kind of sophisticated offenses being executed the way Beilein has our current guys running. I could be wrong, but this is seems to be the main distinction between the two teams as far as I'm concerned.
I'll start believing when the preview/prediction threads start coming out 4 days before tipoff.
OP- thank you for not making this a prediction thread for the EMU game.
I don't know. I like the fact that our big men know and accept their role. All that would accomplish is taking shots away from Burke, Stauskas, THJ and GR3.
If we go undefeated and win it all ill say we should be.
If we go undefeated and win it all, we should be #2? Man, your standards are seriously high.
I've been a believer from the day I first watched Cazzie, Ollie, Larry, George and their teammates play at leaky Yost a "few" years back. And no, young fellers, they weren't on skates.
I love the people who like to say "We're Too Young!" and "Not Ready Yet.". Newsflash people, it's 2012 not the mid-90s. I know we haven't been Elite in a long time so maybe UM fans haven't paid much attention to College Bball but the way we're constructed right now is ideal.
The best talent leaves for the NBA after 1 or maybe 2 years if you're lucky. You've got to strike when you've got the pieces and that's what we have in 2012-13.
Anyone really think Burke comes back next year? I would absolutely love that but it's probably in his best interest to leave depending on the rest of his season obviously. Not that we want to be like Kentucky but guess why Calipari attracts top talent? He consistently puts guys into the 1st Round. That's what we're on the verge of especially with our facilities and the momentum we have with all the exposure we're currently getting.
UM Bball is finally back for good. Let's reclaim the state and put MSU back in its rightful place - Izzo should get a ton of credit for taking advantage of UMs sanctions and poor coaching hires but those of us over 30 know who the real Bball program in the state is (all things being equal).
Let it stay that way. Personally, one thing I love about our team is if we have one shooter that is cold, we have at least 2-3 more that can step up and score on our starting 5.
Few teams can boast that. And I've seen it night in and night out from our ball club.
that they are good enough to beat anyone and still have a very high ceiling. I'm not sure if they are the 2nd best team in the country right now. However, I believe they have the talent and coaching to win it all.
Plus, they are damn fun to watch.
I admit I was doubtful of our preseason ranking, felt like we should be back around 12 or 13. Now, I feel like we are maybe top 6 and can beat anyone on a given night. I'd like to see us in B1G competition a bit before feeling like we're the #2 (or #1) team in the country.
Burke has been awesome, Stauskas lights out, GRIII living up to his hype, and the three headed Morgan/Horford/McGary monster is definitely getting the job done. Hardaway has been great at times, mediocre other times. Defense sometimes seems lacking..... I don't have stats for it, just from the eyeball test.
We've simply outclassed every team we've played this year. Even when we're not playing particularly well, we still beat teams pretty handily. That didn't used to be so. This team is several levels better than last year's team. Michigan is officially back to being an elite basketball program.
Yup, that's exactly it. Even when I feel like we haven't played well we still seem to always be up,10+ points. The amount of depth and scoring on this team is something we haven't seen in 20 years. IMO, we haven't put a complete game together yet. Let's hope we see it in Columbus in January.
but thus far, all signs are good. Too early to say whether we're #2, and at some point we'll drop, but this seems like one of those years where any one of a number of schools could win it all, and we look to be solidly in that mix.
I'm sure even if we win the national championship, some people on here will still say we're overrated.
the foundation is there, but experience isn't yet. I think we lack that killer instinct though. The killer instinct will come with time. We get a decent lead and then get careless and sloppy. Right now, any team in the top ten can be beat any other top ten on any given day.
The best team from my generation with the killer instinct was the early 90's UNLV teams. Some people might get butt hurt over not picking the Fab Five, but anyone who remembers watching Larry Johnson, Stacy Augmon, Greg Anthony, George Ackles and Anderson Hunt would agree.
Going into the Big Ten schedule, there will definitely be a rough stretch from about the middle of January to the middle of February where will definitely need to be running on all cylinders, but I can't see any game in the conference schedule ahead where this team would not have a liegitimate shot at winning it. What makes this season a flurry of excitement is the style of play that eminates from this team. If they miss a shot, they are great at getting the rebound. If there is a defensive miscue, this team is still good at getting in front of the ball. There is an aggression and an opportunistic approach to play that makes me think they can compete with anyone.
They very likely won't win them all, but they are equipped to be in them all, in other words.
We may not stay #2, but if they keep playing at this general level, they more than likely end the season in the top 10, I would say. As to the preseason ranking, I actually thought it was fair, but this was based on zero evidence from actual play, of course.
Pretty much agree about there being no games that we're out of in the Big 10, at least in terms of talent.
Indiana away will obviously be tough, but they have a huge issue of who Jordan Hulls guards (they lost to Butler because a walk on PG broke his ankles). He can't guard Burke and he's too short to check Hardaway or Stauskas. They also seem to forget to feed Zeller at times. We should also be able to slow them down, but they're always really tough at Assembly.
I think OSU will actually give us more trouble. They have the only guard in the conference that can check Burke, and they're long on the wing so they match up well. We haven't seen a scorer like Thomas either, and they're going to be the first game where we're on par talentwise. If they get a consistent second scorer, they'll be very good.
If we catch an insane Brandon Paul game where he's raining 3s, Illinois can beat us, and Minnesota in the Barn is never fun, but we're better than both those teams in terms of talent. MSU is doing there usual thing of scuffling against a tough schedule before they become difficult.
They way Trey Burke has played this season, if hes healthy i fully expect a long touney run.
The way Trey Burke has played this season, if hes healthy i fully expect a long touney run.
What is this? A practice speech for your sparty firends? Man, I can't wait until newbies or longtime lurkers who've hardly contributed and have no idea what is/isn't acceptable on the board can no longer start moronic threads like this one. Brian's offseason blog updates plans can't come soon enough.
There is a lot in conference ball to be played still...
Right now I will say that we look like one of the best teams in the country. Whether we're #2 I can't say. We're up there, though, and we will be competitive in every game we play this season.
This team is capable of beating anyone on any given night.
I'm convinced this team is a top 10-15 team, which means they are a really good basketball team. I'm not quite to the point where I believe they are a top 5 (1 seed) team. I think to do that, it will be necessary for McGary to do a little more, to get the ball a bit more down low, and for the Wolverines to show me good rebounding against a GOOD rebounding team, and find another way to consistently score when Burke is off/defended well. Yeah, Hardaway, Robinson, and especially Stauskas have been superb at times. Indeed, sometimes unstoppable in their own rights. But all three have had substantial bumps in the road, mostly when Burke either gets a bit too shot focused or is defended better than usual.
To put a number on what I'm talking about:
I think 12-6, 13-5 is a floor for their Big 10 record, which is pretty damn good. Main reason for these numbers - There are a LOT of super teams in the Big 10. 12-6 could happen with losing road games to darn good teams plus one loss either at home to an excellent team or on the road to a team they probably should beat. .
OTOH, I think 16-2 or so is absolutely achievable, which would make them one of the better teams in the Big 10 over the last decade, and would be their best conference record in the last 20 years.
Once Big Ten play starts, we're not going to be winning as easily as we are now. We play MSU, OSU, Indiana, and Illinois on the road before playing them at home. The road trip to Minnesota looks much more difficult now and we don't play them at home. We also have a road trip at Wisconsin (we don't play them at home either) and we haven't won there in over a decade.
To go 13-5 in conference play would be a HUGE accomplishment I think.
I like this team. I look forward to every game. But I think we're more in the 10-15 range. I don't think we're top 5.
if we go 13-5 in conference we're a 2 seed at worst.
in front of them at this point WolverineHistorian? From the games I have watched so far this season around college basketball, I really haven't seen five teams that have looked better or more talented. As far as trying to claim there are 9+ teams better at this point, that is extremely pessimistic based on what other teams have done and shown so far.
Something to consider is that this team, will only get better as the season goes along. Considering how good they are now, I am 100% certain they will have every oppurtunity to win it all when March rolls around. This team has the talent and athleticism to match up with anybody in the country. Their only significant weakness is a lack of a dominant inside big man on the offensive end, but the offensive firepower at other positions is more than enough to make up for that. Not to mention feeding the low post has never been a big staple of a Beilein offense anyways.
Just for the record I was a believer in this team's lofty ranking before the season, based on the fact that recent history in the college basketball has seemed to indicate raw talent is more important than experience. I can't say I am really surprised by what the freshmen have shown so far, with the exception of Stauskas being a little more atheltic than I thought he would be.
I would be surprised to see any team make it out of B1G play without atleast 6 losses, if not more, so let's not get too excited before B1G play either beats us down or makes us unstoppable.
I would be. Last year's 13-5 record (MSU/UM/OSU) was the worst record for a 1st place team in the last 11 years (and probably longer... ESPN's page didn't go back any further).
Last 11 years:
I can't believe there have been over 70 replies and no one's posted this:
Obviously this team is for real. Trey Burke looked good last year. This year he's been unbelievable. Pro scouts must be drooling. Good play from returnees and a fabulous freshmen class adds up to some potential good things at the end of the season. If Burke gets hurt, though, forget it.
When B1G play begins I will be a believer. Still early in the season. But are they deserving...yes, with the record they have and how they have been playing. Horford injury scares me but they key is consistency, consistency, consistency.