September 29th, 2014 at 10:04 AM ^
After thorough concussion testing, no doubt.
o i am laffin
September 29th, 2014 at 10:32 AM ^
I agree. This is bullshit coverup stuff. There is no way he was properly tested for any injury (head, leg, whatever) he may have sustained while out on the field in that limited amount of time.
But, people are going to believe what they want to believe and spin the story however they want.
Me, personally, you either believe that Hoke was negligent in sending Morris back out there due to the possibility that he had a concussion. Or you believe that Hoke is negligent in all things, from the lack of a headset, to the lack of player development (Morris #1 with a bullet on that list), to the lack of player preparation (Bellomy is still looking for his helmet, I believe).
We pay this man millions of dollars each year to recruit kids and stand / clap / point at things on Saturdays in the fall.
September 29th, 2014 at 12:08 PM ^
If the medical staff decided that Morris was not concussed following a proper test (I'm not saying that a proper test was administered - I have no idea), I don't see how we can villify anyone for Shane playing on a busted leg. Football players play on hurt feet/ankles/legs/whatever all the time, and generally that accepted as ok if the player is willing to go, yes? Case in point: this here blog singing the praises of Gardner for playing a great game against OSU last year on a broken foot.
[EDIT: for the record, I'm only responding to the post above because of the "head, leg, whatever" statement; not saying you're villifying Hoke for playing Shane on a bad leg, but it seems like some people have been doing so.]
September 29th, 2014 at 10:48 AM ^
and him going back out when Gardner's helmet came off, did the medical staff or trainer test or evaluate Shane Morris for a concussion? Yes - or - No?
September 29th, 2014 at 10:06 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 10:11 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 10:17 AM ^
Thank you for stating the obvious...
September 29th, 2014 at 10:19 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 10:45 AM ^
Morris shouldn't have even started the 2nd half. He did absolutely nothing in the first half. The only score we got was essentially all Deveon Smith. Then, early on in the 3rd quarter when he was noticeably limping, he should have come out. You can't leave an ineffective QB in the game who is also hurt. There's no point in doing it. It's not going to "toughen him up" in the least if that was their aim. And it led to the disastrous string of series where Minnesota put the game away. By the time Devin came in it was garbage time.
The whole way the coaches handled the QB's in this game was horrible.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:06 AM ^
He was cleared by doctors for the leg issue. No concussion testing was performed before the helmet fiasco. The official response is there was no head injury and thus no testing was done.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:07 AM ^
Which is absolutely appalling.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:23 AM ^
Dude, Shane was fine. He was practically cheery going to the sidelines. He even put his arm around a lineman to give him encouragement.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^
is being used a catch all word for taking a huge shot, so it is hard to know at this point (especially if no actual testing was done) if he actually had a concussion or just got knocked silly. I believe you can have one without necessarily having the other.
But it is PR at this point, for the program and for Hoke. Hoke is getting fired. He is not going to coach another Michigan football game. At the same time, it has to be determined the "reason" for his termination. I believe it is possible that Hoke did not know the extent of the shot that Morris took. He played in an era where if you "got your bell rung" you took a moment to get your poise and then you played on. That is not to excuse it, but it is the truth. The problem is, that mentality is so 20 years ago that Hoke still living by it the way that he does shows really that he is not fit to be a football coach at this level. He doesn't understand the stakes, on a number of levels.
However, the athletic department is not going to "black list" the guy. You fire somebody for his teams poor play that is one thing. There will still be a job for him somewhere. You fire him for player safety reasons and that is another thing altogether. Truth be told, Hoke was never qualified for this job and he probably has ruined what could have been a promising coaching career, albeit mid-level or as a D-Coordinator at a power program. To terminate him for this Morris incident, which could be a little more nuanced than we know, would essentially end his career. You are seeing some PR from the athletic department. He won't be on the side lines for the next game and it will be because "we are going in another direction and wish him the best." It is not going to be because "he is clearly Satan and we cannot have Satan coaching at Michigan."
September 29th, 2014 at 10:54 AM ^
I am a physician. A concussion just means your brain hit the inside of your skull. You do not get "knocked silly" without that happening. If Shane swooned because his leg hurt, its possible he didn't have a serious head injury. And the symptoms of a concussion can have a wide spectrum. But if he was lighthead, dizzy, had a headache, lost consiousness at all, he had a concussion and should have been yanked. And the way he was blinking as if to clear his vision seemed like his head was bothering him to me. Can't let the kid shake that off. The coaches have to take control and pre-empt the medical staff.
September 29th, 2014 at 11:00 AM ^
most certainly not a physician, that much is clear. What I am saying is that it is possible that he did not have a serious head injury. He got blasted, I think a player can get blasted without having a concussion, and I think most would agree. Look, not a defense here, but there are some conclusions being jumped to here. I am not saying Hoke doesn't have it coming at this point though.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:16 PM ^
Guys, it is irrelevant whether or not he actually had a concussion. Irrelevant.
He COULD have had one, showed symptoms of having one, and needed to be evaluated fully before being allowed to return to the game. He wasn't. He stayed in and then was re-inserted after being out a few minutes. Full evaluations for concussions don't take 1-3 minutes and they can't be done while the player is on the field playing.
He shouldn't have ben in there and certainly should not have been put back in no matter what LATER evaluations say about a concussion.
September 29th, 2014 at 1:59 PM ^
msoccer, as another doc, I of course agree with your take about being "knocked silly" without a concussion. Futhermore, I listened to the game on the radio while driving, and when I heard Morris was going in for a play when Gardiner's helmet came off, I thought it was outrageous--and that was without even the benefit of seeing the hit, or the TV announcers' commentary. I thought it was evidence of Hoke's incompetence and evidence he should be gone, now. I feel even stronger about that after watching the tape. But still...if Morris did have a sideline evaluation by the medical staff, is that really on the coach to "pre-empt" the medical staff? Again, I wasn't there, but it certainly seems to me that Morris should have had a full head-injury sideline assessment, and did not. Is that really Hoke's fault? Shouldn't he be able to rely on the trainers? As a UMMS grad, I sure have a lot of faith in the UM healthcare system, and assume that's where the staff comes from. I'm really angry about what happened, I'm just not quite sure where that anger should be directed.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:08 AM ^
Yes we know. His leg injury was deemed to be not that serious. Because it was just his leg that was hurt and after evaluating his leg they determined he could no more damage to his leg by playing. I know watching it on TV the announcers were absolutely horrified at first that Hoke would leave Morris in the game due to the potential long term damage Shane could do to his leg. And the reason the national media has picked up this story and is running with it on both sports and traditional news broadcasts is because of the national outcry and worry over football players leg injuries.
Because it was his leg.
September 29th, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^
To the two down voters of this post above, this is called sarcasm. Everywhere the poster said "leg" substitute the word head. The dead giveaway is how many times the poster uses the word "leg", 7 times in 6 sentences, that lets you know his comments are tinged with sarcasm or dripping as it were in this case.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:08 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
September 29th, 2014 at 10:41 AM ^
Do you agree that it's entirely possible Hoke didn't see the head shot? The only reason we saw it on TV was the replay.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:56 AM ^
There was a penalty called on that play for roughing the passer. They showed the hit on the jumbotron. He should have known even if he didn't.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:57 AM ^
that Hoke neither saw the head shot nor knew that Shane's wobbliness had to do with anything other than his leg. It is possible. There have been plenty more egregious decisions by head coaches made regarding player safety than this, even if he did see it. William Gholston was knocked unconscious for over a minute and returned to play the rest of the game.
However, you are not going to see anybody taking Hoke's word for it or giving him the benefit of the doubt. Two reasons, both Hoke(Gibbons) and the Athletic Department(everything) have shown that they will flat out lie to cover their ass. Two, the very fact that Morris was still in the game to take the shot defies any explanation or rationalization.
Maybe Hoke did not see it, it is possible, but it really doens't matter in terms of his future at Michigan. He is cooked.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:48 AM ^
the coaches did was put Morris back into the game. There is NO WAY his health should have been further risked by putting him back in. You call a fu**ing timeout or put Bellomy in. Those are the only choices of a rational coaching staff that knows what they're doing.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:09 AM ^
Sam was pretty much saying whatever he had to say to support Hoke this morning in regards to the concussion issue. It was baffling, inarticulate, and random. I like Sam, but he was all over the place today.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:14 AM ^
i wonder if sam was just saying what he needed to to maintain his insider access. not that doing so makes it right; it doesn't. just wondering.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:17 AM ^
Maybe you heard different segments than I did, but Sam stated several times that the staff screwed up in not getting him off the field immediately. His view is that Hoke would not knowingly send a guy who was concussed back out onto the field—which I agree with—and that the staff on the sideline supposedly did the eval and said Shane was OK.
It's the second part—that the medical staff did an appropriate evaluation on the sideline in the 90 seconds or so they had available—that's extremely questionable. Just exactly what constitutes a real concusion protocol? The NFL version is 8-12 minutes, and there's no way the UM trainers had that amount of time.
UM is going to have to describe exactly what their sideline eval consisted of. If it was just looking into Shane's eyes and asking him who the President is, it's a big problem.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:25 AM ^
My football coach used to ask you what you had done the night before, if you remembered, you were fine. One time I wasn't even concussed but had blacked out the night before so I couldn't remember to give him an answer.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:33 AM ^
Has there been an announcement that an investigation is in process? As an alum... a season ticket holder... and as a parent, I would like to know that a complete and thorough investigation and follow up is underway.... to ensure there will be no reoccurrence, or at least greatly minimize the risk.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:12 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 10:23 AM ^
Sam is at this point relying on what the staff is saying, which is apparently "Shane Morris did not have a concussion."
The question is just exactly how they arrived at that conclusion.
Personally, I think how they handled the Morris situation is emblematic of the program: incompetence, disorganization, mismanagement, and failure to put the players in the position to be successful. I don't believe that there's anything malevolent or evil or consciously malicious in the staff, from Hoke on down. It's just a bad football staff, and responsibility starts with Hoke.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:28 AM ^
Even more specifically, Bellomy, who couldn't find his helmet! Seemed almost comical to see him running around trying different helmets on the sideline. Even in middle school they taught us to always keep our helmets within an arm's reach.
September 29th, 2014 at 12:26 PM ^
I agree Bellomy should've known where he left his helmet, but it's not logical for him to keep it within arm's reach when he's signalling plays during the game. The backup QBs move with Nussmeier up and down the sideline all game. My assumption from watching him scramble around is that all the backup QBs keep their helmets together on the sideline near the offense benches and he grabbed the wrong one in haste. Or maybe someone moved it, who knows. He probably should've started getting ready when Morris came out but so little time elapsed between when Morris came out and Gardner's helmet came off. Furthermore, Gardner's helmet frequently gets jarred loose. He needs to adjust his chin strap or something.
September 29th, 2014 at 11:07 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 10:10 AM ^
How is this happening?! Make it stop!
September 29th, 2014 at 11:21 AM ^
This all feels like a sequence out of "Catch 22" or "Brazil".
September 29th, 2014 at 10:10 AM ^
which is much longer than the time Schmidt and the trainers had available to evaluate Morris.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000253716/article/nfls-2013-protocol-for-players-with-concussions
That doesn't necessarily mean that the protocols that UM uses aren't sufficient, but eventually UM is going to have to answer just what exactly was the evaluation that was done of Shane on the sideline to determine he wasn't concussed.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:32 AM ^
They really needed to get out in front of this and give a careful recounting the moment ESPN began to starting making it the story of the game, which was more or less as it was happening. We have discussed crisis management on the site before, and one of the first things you do is try get out in front and tell your story before others frame the discussion for you. Michigan's AD failed in a very public and unfortunate way in this regard certainly.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:41 AM ^
For a man with such extensive experience at the high corporate level—where good PR is an absolute necessity—David Brandon displays all the communication instincts of an 8-year old caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:59 AM ^
from the man in every controversy that's come up in his time as AD. He has his lawyers gin up a whitewashed press release that attempts to absolve the U-M and people involved of any wrongdoing or lack of judgment. The goal every time is to stonewall and hope that the media and everyone forgets about it after a week or two. I'm sure it comes from his days running Domino's. Obviously, it would be far better if he followed a more proactive crisis management and PR strategy that involved actually addressing the real problems and what they're going to do about them.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:29 PM ^
It's quite an amazing phenomenon that our culture have gotten to the point where any admission of guilt, for issues big or small, is resisted at all costs. Even if it means looking like a fool or worse a dishonest fraud in your efforts to deny any wrong doing. It's as if being the fallible humans we all are is an indictment. Making mistakes is weakness? This couldn't be further from the truth. Admiting failure is strength. It takes fortitude and strength of character. As such it affords us an avenue of grace and generostiy from others. Cover ups and denials, on the other hand, tend to bring more scrutiny and judgement. Yet from politicians to coaches to individuals the knee jerk reaction is deflect and deny.Sad really that honesty and integrity are such a rarity.
September 29th, 2014 at 1:50 PM ^
What they're not realizing is that this is very different than the typical corporate PR situation. The amount of information available to the public here is virtually the same as what they have so they don't have the same ability to control the dialog. No one on "that side", including these radio lackeys seems to appreciate that not-so-subtle nuance
September 29th, 2014 at 10:12 AM ^
has poineered some revolutionary kind of concussion test that is orders of magnitude faster than any currently used in the NFL and in other sports, there wasn't enouhg time between him coming off and going back in to see whether or not he had a concussion. Couple that with the fact that he was left in for a few plays after the helmet to helmet and collapse, they didn't even check in the first place after the injury.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:14 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 10:30 AM ^
The ball.
The sideline, particularly the head coach, doesn't spend his entire time watching to see if the QB takes a hit. He's following the game.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:59 AM ^
80,000 fans saw it all play out but no one on the UM sideline did. yep. that is reasonable.
September 29th, 2014 at 11:49 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 2:35 PM ^
I'm sure that this is true but I'm not buying that every person on that sideline was engaged in those activities that you mention. What about all the support staff? The assitants, the position coaches, the medical personel? None of them is tasked with monitoring what's happening on the field between plays?
September 29th, 2014 at 11:18 AM ^
would you just stop, every post is dumber than the last.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:34 AM ^
They were all on their phones watching more interesting games with the new and improved wifi coverage courtesy of Dave Brandon.