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McGary vs Morgan (revisited) + Horford, who do you start?

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February 7th, 2013 at 7:54 PM
#1
robbyt003
robbyt003's picture
Joined: 10/25/2010
MGoPoints: 2591
McGary vs Morgan (revisited) + Horford, who do you start?

A couple of weeks ago I posted the : McGary vs Morgan who do you start?

Well, the consensus was to start Morgan and continue to play McGary off the bench.  Now, with Morgan being limited by an injury, do you give McGary the start?  Now I do understand that McGary did start the second half last game, but should/will he be the full time starter now?  I haven't seen enough out of Horford to put him over McGary.  

McGarys stats for last 5 games:

01/24 vs Purdue

21 MIN. 3/6 FG. 0/2 FT. 6 PTS. 3 REB. 1 BLK. 1 STL. 0 PF. 0 TO.

01/27 @ Illinois

16 MIN. 3/7 FG. 0/0 FT. 6 PTS. 8 REB. 0 BLK. 0 STL. 4 PF. 2 TO.

01/30 vs Northwestern

15 MIN. 2/4 FG. 2/2 FT. 6 PTS. 11 REB. 0 BLK. 0 STL. 2 PF. 1 TO.

02/02 @ Indiana

28 MIN. 5/7 FG. 0/0 FT. 10 PTS. 7 REB. 1 BLK. 2 STL. 4 PF. 0 TO.

02/05 vs Ohio. 

29 MIN. 7/13 FG. 0/1 FT. 14 PTS. 6 REB. 1 BLK. 4 STL. 1 PF. 0 TO.

 

I like what I've seen out of him on the floor lately and I think it would definitely help boost his confidence to put him in the starting lineup.  SIX STEALS in the past two games and 0 TO, those are pretty impressive stats.  My vote, until Morgan is 100% and maybe even when he is, is to give McGary the start.

*OH and can we please leave Reon Dawson alone?  He is committed to Michigan, so lets just leave it at that*

“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing” - Bo Schembechler

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February 7th, 2013 at 7:59 PM | McGary. (Score:3 Normal)
TTUwolverine
TTUwolverine's picture
Joined: 04/13/2009
MGoPoints: 1873

25-30 min per game... and starting.  I think he brings a lot of energy off the bench, but I think that energy is just as useful at the start of a game as it is later. 

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:14 PM | I think 25 is about the limit (Score:5 Normal)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4163

I think 25 is about the limit of what he can play right now with his fitness. He was grabbing his shorts and asking out several times last game. His energy is great, but he only has so much to expend. He played 29 against OSU including the OT.

I don't understand why people are so hung up on the starting question. It doesn't seem to bother him and who finishes far more important. It's not like we're talking about who starts at QB.

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:50 PM | Definitely McGary (Score:1)
iawolve
iawolve's picture
Joined: 11/03/2008
MGoPoints: 2488

That guy is developing as his PT is increasing, got to find that ceiling.

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February 7th, 2013 at 9:58 PM | I think people are (Score:3 Normal)
highestman
highestman's picture
Joined: 11/30/2010
MGoPoints: 140

I think people are underestimating the defensive liability of McGary.  He has the ability to take people 1 on 1 b/c he's so athletic, but he is getting caught either out of position or getting confused on help D (which is normal of a Freshman learning to fit in of course).  For instance, Indiana ran the same play twice with Oladipo streaking in on the wing, misses the lay-up, and Zeller slamming it home.  Yes, he didn't try to miss the lay-up, but they knew he would draw McGary out of position and open up the lane for the rebound if there was a miss.  I think Morgan is way ahead of McGary in terms of savyness on D.   

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February 8th, 2013 at 12:04 AM | I think this was discussed in (Score:4 Underrated)
indianablue
Joined: 09/08/2009
MGoPoints: 157

I think this was discussed in the game recap, but those putbacks are just as much the fault of the on-ball defender as McGary - if they didn't get beat to the basket, McGary wouldn't have to come over and help. Generally speaking, your choices are: Oladipo throwing a dunk down or getting a routine lay-in, or forcing a tough shot and hoping someone can block out on the backside.

It's a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation.

Three-quarters of the world is covered by water; the rest is covered by Charles Woodson.

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:04 PM | Back when OKC had James (Score:5 Normal)
JimBobTressel
JimBobTressel's picture
Joined: 11/28/2010
MGoPoints: 43

Back when OKC had James Harden, he accepted, even embraced his role as running with the 2nd team offense, and regularly was a double digit scorer.

My opinion is this. The move evenly scorers are spread out over both units, the better the sustained play. Let Stauskas and McGary run the second team. 

Morgans skillset is badly needed to defend. Did you see what OSU did to us in the paint? It was getting ugly.

Morgan can be counted on as a decent scoring option when the PG (Morris and Burke) feeds him. McGary can create his own baskets...he's more independent

ATTN NBA Dads and Siblings: Have brothers / sons on the hoops come-up? 

Michigan = NBA Family U

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:04 PM | No Change (Score:5 Normal)
YurtleTheTurtle
YurtleTheTurtle's picture
Joined: 11/11/2012
MGoPoints: 13

McGary has been able to provide a spark off the bench for this team, and not very many players can do that. Many players need to start and play lots of minutes to get into a groove.

Until we know that Morgan or Horford can consistently give us that boost off the bench, I say steady as she goes.

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:04 PM | I still like McGary off the (Score:5 Normal)
Allin4Blue
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 529

I still like McGary off the bench. Horford has played pretty well with Morgan being out. McGary still has some freshman tendencies, but is so valuable coming off the bench.

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:06 PM | In addition, I would like to (Score:4 Normal)
Allin4Blue
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 529

In addition, I would like to see both McGary and Horford on the floor at the same time against teams who are getting a lot of offensive boards. Ohio was killing us on the offensive glass.

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February 8th, 2013 at 2:21 PM | I can't strongly enough agree (Score:2 Normal)
PB-J Time
PB-J Time's picture
Joined: 09/06/2012
MGoPoints: 258

I can't strongly enough agree with this. GRIII is a good player, but needs a rest. I also think having Horford out there may cover some of McGary's (positional) defensive deficiencies. 

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:06 PM | McGary (Score:4 Normal)
MGoLow
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Joined: 02/06/2013
MGoPoints: 5

I think there's no doubt that McGary's got much more upside and might even be better right now, but I think there's also some real value in starting Morgan if he's healthy. He provides savy and defense and after all, McGary will get the same minutes whether he starts or not. Let the young pup keep growing and learning. I'm sure we'll be seeing him starting next year if not sooner.

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:05 PM | Reon is more than (Score:1)
Committed
Committed's picture
Joined: 04/06/2011
MGoPoints: 407

Reon is more than committed...

What every longshot, come from behind, underdog will tell ya is this... The other guy, may in fact, be the favorite. The odds may be stacked against you, fair enough. But what the odds don't know is...this isn't a math test.

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:16 PM | You would know. (Score:5 Normal)
Hobbes217
Joined: 01/05/2012
MGoPoints: 188

You would know.

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:12 PM | McGary coming off the bench (Score:1)
UMxWolverines
UMxWolverines's picture
Joined: 03/01/2009
MGoPoints: 5246

McGary coming off the bench has been working pretty well, but if Horford or Morgan don't step it up on Saturday I'd start McGary the next game.

"Ohio is like a giant turd that Michigan just can't pinch off"

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:16 PM | Minutes (Score:2 Normal)
Naked Bootlegger
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Joined: 01/28/2011
MGoPoints: 1213

I want this team to go far in the tourney.  One thing that always worries me about freshmen is hitting the proverbial wall by mid-season.   I like that McGary is relatively fresh at this point, so I don't mind seeing his minutes kept at 20-25 max.   He played more against OSU and absolutely deserved it - and we frankly needed it -  although he was huffing and puffing a little bit.  

McGary starting?  It doesn't matter to me.  He seems happy with his role and is an absolute joy to watch.   I've never seen a big cause so many turnovers away from the basket.

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:24 PM | Morgan (Score:2 Normal)
gsot21
Joined: 01/26/2013
MGoPoints: 88

Morgan, just look at the biceps 

My spelling sucks. 

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:25 PM | Slow starts (Score:2 Normal)
TaiStreetsMyHero
TaiStreetsMyHero's picture
Joined: 08/08/2012
MGoPoints: 727

Maybe starting mcgary could help prevent the team from falling behind early in big games. Not good for the heart to watch us play entire games from behind

I do it for my love of the Streets

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:30 PM | He was on the floor when IU (Score:4 Normal)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4163

He was on the floor when IU made their big initial run, though. Belein removed Morgan after he got that foul in the first minute.

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:34 PM | It seems like Coach B is (Score:1)
ken725
ken725's picture
Joined: 10/26/2008
MGoPoints: 4562

It seems like Coach B is pulling the starting 5 right away after their first foul anyways. 

Ohio State game:

Horford got his first foul at 18:07 to go in the 1st half.  So I guess in this game the starting center got less than 2 min before getting subbed. 

Pulling the 5 after their first foul has been the MO ever since Morgan got injured. 

Indiana game:

Horford got this first foul at 19:27 to go in the 1st half.  McGary came in right away for Horford.

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

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February 8th, 2013 at 2:04 AM | It seems to me that it (Score:2)
kevbow7
Joined: 07/03/2009
MGoPoints: 8

It seems to me that it doesn't really matter who starts, this being part of the reasoning.  Also, I'm confident in any of the three, really.  

Obviously, McGary is a spark off the bench, but the three rotate very well.  I just hope Morgan is able to use his experience to guide our play in the paint along with Horford's wingspan and McGary's guts.

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:34 PM | We are 20-2. (Score:1 Normal)
champswest
champswest's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 2002

Let's let coach keep setting the lineup.

"I hate losing more than I like winning." - Zack

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February 7th, 2013 at 9:03 PM | Thanks Champ!  Alright Mods, (Score:5 Normal)
robbyt003
robbyt003's picture
Joined: 10/25/2010
MGoPoints: 2591

Thanks Champ!  

Alright Mods, delete the thread, we aren't supposed to discuss potential line-ups. 

“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing” - Bo Schembechler

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:35 PM | I cannot stand Hulls (Score:3 Normal)
creelymonk10
creelymonk10's picture
Joined: 12/04/2009
MGoPoints: 505

I cannot stand Hulls. He has that unique punchable face.

EDIT: Oops, wrong thread. My statement still rings true.

"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football."
-John Heisman

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:59 PM | There is (Score:3 Normal)
oHOWiHATEohioSTATE
Joined: 11/22/2010
MGoPoints: 1371

no wrong way to eat a Reese's and there is no wrong thread for this post.

If an OSU fan divorces his wife are they still brother and sister?

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:36 PM | i'm good... (Score:1)
GOBLUE4EVR
GOBLUE4EVR's picture
Joined: 01/09/2009
MGoPoints: 988

with either of them starting, they both good enough D and rebound well enough to be out on the floor at any time... i just want morgan to be able to play more then 3 mins in a game again, so horford can go back to playing his 5 mins a game....

horford is such a liablity out on the floor right now, he thinks to much and is not sure of himself when he does make a move to the basket... he needs to grow a set and just take the ball to the basket and not worry about the shot getting blocked or not making it... i do love his rebounding though...

@GOBLUE4EVR

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February 7th, 2013 at 8:42 PM | morgan (Score:3 Normal)
mistersuits
Joined: 01/27/2010
MGoPoints: 525

Morgan starting, 20 mins.
McGary off the bench 25-30 mins.
GR3 takes a breather, caps at 35 mins and we play two bigs for at least five minutes a game.

BYOBracket.com - my bracketology tool, build your own bracket. Enjoy!
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February 7th, 2013 at 8:48 PM | Remember when we always (Score:1)
T-town Wolv
Joined: 12/01/2010
MGoPoints: 159

freaked out whenever Morgan got in foul trouble during games? Don't have that problem anymore.

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February 7th, 2013 at 9:18 PM | I like Mitch's energy coming (Score:1)
TWSWBC
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Joined: 01/27/2011
MGoPoints: 802

I like Mitch's energy coming off the bench this year.  Generally other teams don't have someone to match what he brings.  He still (to my knowledge) hasnt started yet this year and I dont see a need to do that now.  Total amount of minutes and who finishes the game is more important to me than who starts.  Having quality big men who each deserve minutes is a great problem to have. Go Blue!

If I tell you it's Easter, you better start looking for eggs.

Some folks call it a sling blade, I call it a kaiser blade.

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February 7th, 2013 at 9:23 PM | This is such a great problem (Score:2 Normal)
Wolverine Devotee
Wolverine Devotee's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: -9994437

This is such a great problem to have. I love you Beilein. 

When the ADept sells special jerseys and gear, you'll see my picture next to the targeted customer crowd. A sheep.....but a Blue one.....

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February 8th, 2013 at 12:11 AM | This is easy... (Score:1 Normal)
Mr. Yost
Mr. Yost's picture
Joined: 07/25/2011
MGoPoints: 5536

Always start Morgan or Horford...McGary gets the most minutes and starts the 2nd half.

 

Really it doesn't matter, (when healthy)...you play all 3 and ride the hot hand, they each bring something unique. All 3 are underrated and solid players.

 

One thing I will say...they need to play together more than they do. We need to play 2 bigs at least 5-7 more minutes than we do now. I've said this 4 times now...we started Horford and McGary in OT vs. Ohio and I don't think they scored in the first 3:00 of OT.

“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”

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February 8th, 2013 at 12:35 AM | Of course, the only time we (Score:2)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4163

Of course, the only time we scored during that time was a late shot clock stepback by Burke. Small sample size for both o and d apply.

I do agree we need to play 2 bigs about that amount of time, if for nothing else than to rest GRIII.

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February 8th, 2013 at 1:18 AM | Morgan When Healthy (Score:2)
hockeyguy9125
hockeyguy9125's picture
Joined: 03/30/2009
MGoPoints: 1672

McGary has been fantastic off the bench...if it ain't broke, don't fix it

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February 8th, 2013 at 4:12 AM | Mary Ann (Score:1)
Muttley
Muttley's picture
Joined: 07/07/2009
MGoPoints: 4599

But I'm OK w/ the other option

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February 8th, 2013 at 9:07 AM | Horford (Score:0 Flamebait)
mgoblue14050
mgoblue14050's picture
Joined: 12/12/2011
MGoPoints: 71

I personally think Morgan should never touch the ball again. Beilein should start Horford because like you all have said, McGary really does have that spark off the bench

We don't claim to be the best, but we're damn hard to beat

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February 8th, 2013 at 9:31 AM | Morgan starts. Simple as (Score:1)
aenima0311
aenima0311's picture
Joined: 11/21/2008
MGoPoints: 538

Morgan starts. Simple as that. Upperclassman and one of the best pick setters in the Big Ten. That's vital when we run a pick and roll-based offense. McGary's energy off the bench is a great game changer. I wouldn't mind seeing a lineup with McGary at the 4 and Morgan at the 5 for a few minutes per game. 

Pronounced Ahh-Neh-Muh

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February 8th, 2013 at 9:31 AM | Start McGary (Score:1)
NHGoBlue
NHGoBlue's picture
Joined: 01/27/2011
MGoPoints: 72

I think he has earned it. If he picks up a quick foul we have the depth to rotate.

Fergodsakes! 

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February 8th, 2013 at 10:19 AM | Any 2 of the 3 (Score:1)
Steve in PA
Steve in PA's picture
Joined: 08/10/2009
MGoPoints: 2345

They all have a different style to their game.  McGary is a definite low post player with the enthusiasm of the Energizer Bunny.  But, going 100% all the tme wears him down and then he starts to make mistakes.

Horford is a highpost player who can score and has a light touch on his shot.  He's too "brittle"for the low post and will get muscled out of the way by more physical players.  His game is finesse and athleticism.

Morgan is a hybrid of the two.  While he doesn't excel at either, he can be more than adequate at both.  Right now his greatest asset is experience.

 

 

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February 8th, 2013 at 12:38 PM | Horford - start McGary - off (Score:2)
ReadYourGuard
ReadYourGuard's picture
Joined: 08/21/2008
MGoPoints: 6192

Horford - start

McGary - off the bench.  20-25 minutes a game

Morgan - to the hyperbaric chamber, or voodoo doctor, or massage parlor - whatever it takes to get the ankle healed.

"the Spirit of Michigan...is based on a deathless loyalty to Michigan and all her ways....and a conviction that nowhere is there a better university, in any way, than this Michigan of ours" - Fielding Yost
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February 8th, 2013 at 12:45 PM | Sneaking in (Score:2)
Ron Utah
Joined: 02/28/2012
MGoPoints: 497

The Reon Dawson comment at the end of the OP, is, IMO, spot on.  The kid is a Wolverine now, and we should support him.

I like that we have two good options, though neither are currently great.  McGary has lots to learn still, but his energy and passion make things happen.  Horford seems more than adequate.  I guess I'd like to see Horford starting, but McGary playing the lion's share of the game (25-30 min).  This gives McGary time to watch the game and get a feel for what he needs to do, and, hopefully, the coaches are explaining what he needs to focus on when he gets in the game.

That said, what is this post doing in the football thread?

Thank you, Coach Hoke, for bringing Michigan back.

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February 8th, 2013 at 4:10 PM | I am pleased with how Coach B (Score:2)
gordie bell
gordie bell's picture
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7965

I am pleased with how Coach B is divvying up the minutes, but  like many of you, I wouldn't mind seeing more of two Bigs playing together. I think this will happen against MSU and Wisco.

Basically Michigan has a 4 headed monster at Center. Here are the stats of Morgan, Horford, Bielfeldt, and McGary. at the bottom I shaved a little off the totals to compensate for the rare time Coach B plays them together. All in all, great stats from the 5 position, especially in such a perimeter, spread the floor, based scheme. 14 point 12 boards out of the Center position is pretty damn good and probably only going to get better.







name points rebounds assists steals blocks
Mitch McGary 6.1 6.1 0.4 0.9 0.7
Jordan Morgan 5.8 4.8 0.4 0.5 0.1
Jon Horford 2.7 2.6 0.4 0.3 0.7
Max Bielfeldt 1.6 1.9 0.2 0.2 0.1
totals 16.2 15.4 1.4 1.9 1.6
my adjusted totals per game 14 12 1 2 1

 

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