Yeah, but that is the Pac 10. The 3-3-5 will never work in the Big Ten, just like the spread.
Maybe the 3-3-5 isn't a Conspiracy to Ruin Michigan
I'd rather have Casteel.
I can't get over Brian's breakdown of UM, and not having the defensive players in the correct allignment. That can be corrected.
I still think we need a new DC.
RR feels the exact same way. Unfortunately, Casteel has twice rebuffed us.
And West Virginia isn't going anywhere.
Casteel needs RichRod, and RichRod needs Casteel.
I don't want him to meet Brandon (at least, not until after he's hired). If you're a good assistant, the last thing you want is to have confusion about whom you're reporting to. It's RR's program. He reports to Brandon, but his assistants report to him. If Brandon tries to micromanage, we'll be in trouble. The only thing he should do is allocate enough money for RR to offer a competitive coordinator's salary.
Well lets hope money can be an issue then...
I like the West Virginia defense, and their team speed on defense. I think it'd also be a much easier transition.
That's right -- only the 9-1-1 (featuring nine BIG guys up front that will hit you in the mouth) will work in the Big Ten. It's too cold for anything else.
- - -
Really -- to hear some people tell it, Wisconsin plays ten TOUGH 400-pound guys on the line that run sub-5.0 forties and never miss a block. If it were that @#$%ing easy, every team in the country would run POWER football.
Corn, cheese, or brats in the country for more than 1 wisconsin team
I don't remember seeing Patterson running, but I do remember thinking, "wow why is Cam moving in like slo-motion, he should be there by now." I couldn't believe how slow I thought he was running, he looked tired (not saying it's easy to do but still).
But I thought he was slowing up just to get a chance to smack someone
No I specifically remember this... i couldn't figure out if Cam was slowing down in case he needed a block? He looked very slow. Or Patterson should be a Safety.
I think Cam was slowing down so that his blockers could catch up to him a little bit. He was running faster, then slowed down a bit, then started a little faster again.
And think about it. He could have been tackled if he had tried to pass his blockers.
that Cam Gordon could beat all of us in a race.
Not all of us are out of shape.
I couldn't believe how slow I thought he was running,
That really is something.
Cam gives us the beef to run what is actually a 3-4 with an athletic fourth LB/S hybrid (people seem to hate the 3-3-5 in theory alone but if we call it a 3-4 the griping goes away). For all the talk about lack of size, the only places we are really undersized is with Martin at NT and Roh at DE but because they are so athletic, it can work. Although it makes me want to puke on myself to even bring it up, the Giants go undersized all the time up front to get their pass rush going and it worked to perfection against the Patriots in the biggest dong punch superbowl of all. With everyone except Mouton back next year (plus Woolfolk and Floyd returning from injury) we really have a lot of pieces in place and should be a solid defensive team next year whether we run the 3-3-5, 3-4, or 4-3.
I think any defense with experienced players can work as long as you confuse the offense. There doesn't seem to be any dominant defense out there that is better than any other. I think defenses depend on situations within the game instead of debating what to line up in beforehand.
p.s. I like your extra box.
I've never been that concerned with the 3-3-5. My concern is that our DC and position coaches are not on the same page. I think Gerg and Shafer had different ideas of how to run a defense than RR's staff from WVU.
If we get a staff that is on the same page and some more experienced and impactful players we will be fine 3-3-5 or not
a freak athlete; he's just not big enough to play NT and I think his technique isn't great. He has linebacker speed in a DT's body. Cam has linebacker speed too, which is why it's good he's at his natural position instead of at FS. Vinopal has looked good out there. He's fast and a pretty good tackler when not vastly outsized (gulp, Wisconsin).
How appropriate that Captain Obvious would come to the rescue here.
There's not much more to tell; ESPN saw his athleticism and "upside" back in '06, too:
Great athlete, so-so football player ...
I saw Alabama in the 3-3-5 stack this weekend against Miss. State. First thing I thought was Michigan and wondered if Alabama coached it's players to be in the right position.
Maybe that's just the difference between seasoned veterans on defense versus lolfreshmen in the backfield.
race was pretty apparent /amazing.
First thought: I can see why Cam struggled in coverage.
Second thought: "With the 194th pick in the NFL draft, the New England Patriots select Adam Patterson, defensive tackle, Michigan."
With the younger guys like Demens and Vinopal. Moving Cam and Roh down has also helped. We're making progress.
I totally agree. It's nice to see those guys in their natural positions.
it's always jimmies and joes, not Xs and Os.
Sure, there's RPS and "chess matches" and whatever, but it really boils down to the fact that if the guy on the other side of the ball beats your guy, you just can't do much about it.
i just want to find a new dc that runs the 3-5-3 or 3-3-5 i think its actually called 3-5-3 but i digress. I think the new dc should run the 3-5-3 because thats what the coaches know how to run if not they all D assistants need to be let go and the new dc should have FULL and TOTAL control of assistants hires and scheme.
More of a response to Feldman here, but whatever. If we were to come out in the 46, it would probably blow Pryor/OSU's mind. If you practice against something all week, and then have to block/read something else come Saturday, you're going to sputter for atleast a little while. Compound that with the fact that teams don't always come out to play, and you get the Oregon-Cal game of this past weekend. (Note: I'm not suggesting we do that, I understand the implications of changing anything defensively at this point). Defense is almost entirely about the players (as the OP and many others suggest), any logical scheme employed with the 1997 Wolverine defense would probably have quite a bit of success.
The 3-3-5 is used to address spread teams like Miss State and Oregon. None of the top teams in our conference run an offense like what Dan Mullen or Chip Kelly dial up.
OSU does a good portion of the time. Actually, almost every team in the country has a spread package. But when those teams go power, we've usually responded with a 4-4 or 4-2-5..
is a Spread team that might occasionally go power not the other way around. Hence you are better starting a in 4-4 or 4-3 and moving to a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 to match the tendencies of the teams we play in our conference. I am just looking at every other D in the conference including newcomer Nebraska runs their base defensive sets.
The relevance is that I was hoping to maybe convince 1 person in the world that knows nothing about football but calls radio stations and says RR is stupid for running the 3-3-5 it will never work" that it is possible to use it and stop people.
I understand that we have chosen to be a multiple defense and adjust our set up based on the offenses personnel and down and distance and we won't be running much 3-3-5 vs Wisconsin.
Mike Martin is not big enough to be a nose tackle in a 3 man front in the bigten, big12, sec..... he doesn't control 2 gaps against the run and that must happen.
3-3-5 would need a big space eating nt that controls the 2 inside gaps and demands a double team so the inside lber can flow to the ball without getting a lineman or 2 lineman coming free every single play.
Mike Martin should be playing de in a 3 man front....
Next yr dline should have Qwashington or Richard Ash at the nosetackle position....and could go 4 man front and still have a great rush package....
4-3 front sde vanbergen, dt mikemartin, nt qwash/Ash, rde roh/black
4-2 rush rde Roh, dt mike martin, nt qwash/Ash, Rde Black
You can also slide vanbergen to dt or nt on pass rush packages......
Mike Martin has been taking on double teams all year long and has been doing just fine. But I guess you are right. Oh wait, no you're not.
I still see the 3-3-5 as a variant of the 3-4 with a nickel back. I know the terminology and the position descriptions are slightly different, but they are still quite similar. The spread has rendered a lot of old defensive looks obsolete. There will be plenty of new schemes to combat the spread as it becomes even more popular. I am guessing most of these will also be met with a lot of resistance at first.
As long as they aren't playing five DB's against a full house backfield on third and short, I really don't mind. Maybe people would like it more if they went 4-2-5, but I am seeing that "5" as non-negotiable in this era, at least in the base set against spread offenses. When most teams have some variant of the spread formation, even those who just want to use "trips" out of a pro-set, four DB's isn't going to be enough.
I am guessing that as RR gets more personnel on defense and they gain more experience, we will see more mixes of traditional and modern defensive sets. I think the defense is in a position similar to that of the offense last year; they can't put in the full playbook because players are still learning.
All i know is that the 3-3-5 kills random people in NCAA Football 11. Ppl dont know what to do with it
I was thinking maybe he should just hand it off to the faster player Patterson. I did miss the Pianos so maybe that is why he was struggling.
It always comes down to the players at the position. If you have the best 11 players on the field who also play well together and buy into the scheme and execute you will have success. Michigan's defense played with more confidence Sat and executed better...albeit against Purdue.
You also cannot ever rule out momentum and rivalry games.....it always plays a huge role as well.