Mattison v. Narduzzi Total Defense rankings
First off, I realize threads comparing UM and MSU (particularly those that are complimentary of MSU) will inevitably cause some sore anuses among a handful of posters here. To those posters, there's nothing I can do for you. The thread has been posted and now you're upset. You're just going to have to deal with that.
To everyone else, the chart below shows the Total Defense rankings of Michigan and Michigan State since 2006. Narduzzi took over for MSU in 2007, Mattison for UM in 2011.
| Total Defense Rankings | ||
| Year | Michigan | Michigan St. |
| 2006 | 6 | 83 |
| 2007 | 23 | 39 |
| 2008 | 67 | 59 |
| 2009 | 82 | 73 |
| 2010 | 110 | 43 |
| 2011 | 17 | 6 |
| 2012 | 13 | 4 |
| 2013 | 41 | 2 |
Narduzzi is unquestionably the gold standard in our conference when it comes to defensive coaching. However, contrary to popular belief, he's not invincible. While he drastically improved MSU's defense in his first year (2007), it took him 5 seasons to really get MSU's defense going and turn it into a dominant force. The point being, it takes time for even the top defensive coach in our conferece to build a dominant defense. With that said, it was no small task taking the 83rd ranked defense in the nation and turning it into the 39th ranked defense in his first year. That alone was very impressive.
However, I submit to you that what Mattison has done in his first 3 years is just as impressive (if not more so) as what Narduzzi did in his first 3/4 years. Mattison took the 110th-ranked defense and immediately (not in 5 seasons) turned them into a top 20 defense in each of his first two seasons. Granted, 2013 was a regression (though not a drastic one) which was at least in part due to departures/youth/lack of depth, injuries, and our offense constantly putting our defense in tough situations. But just as Mattison took us from 110th to 17th in his first year, I see every reason to expect improvement this year in light of our depth/talent and (hopefully) less error-prone offense.
Now, I'm not arguing that Michigan will become a dominant defensive force like MSU. I don't think anyone will match what they've done any time soon. But given what Mattison has accomplished since 2011 and the roster he has to work with this year, I am arrogantly, but comfortably, predicting that Mattison will field his 3rd top-20 defense in 4 years this year.
Thoughts? Criticisms? Personal insults?
TL;DR: Narduzzi is the shit, but Mattison ain't no slouch either and will probably field his 3rd top-20 defense in 4 years this year.
thirty point overall defense jump trumps everything you just said?
Yeah, me either.
I'm actually excited to see the defense this year.
August 7th, 2014 at 10:54 PM ^
....right down the line. John Madden recently said that Oakland played loose because even if they went three and out, the attitude was, "Fuck it. Ray Guy will put the other guys on their own ten anyway."
August 7th, 2014 at 11:49 PM ^
http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-g…
Team D Plays/Game N. Rank
W Ky 65.8 7
MSU 65.9 8
UM 72.1 46
OSU 76.8 85
Team Yds/Game N. Rank
Louisville 255.5 1
MSU 258.1 2
UM 371.5 32
OSU 400.3 57
Team Opp ToP N. Rank (no OT)
BGU 26:04 4
MSU 27:04 9
UM 28.42 35
OSU 29:01 41
Team Opp Pts/D Play N. Rank (Less is better)
MSU .196 2
OSU .317 30
UM .372 62
Team Opp Yds/ Pt N. Rank (More is better)
Louisville 20.3 2
MSU 20.0 3
OSU 16.4 23
UM 13.8 80
Team Opp PPG N. Rank (Against D only)
MSU 12.9 3
BGU 16.5 5
OSU 24.4 33
UM 26.8 61
Just a random spitball but I'd imagine the game against Michigan contributed approximately 1/14 to MSU's total season stats in 2011, 1/13 in 2012, and 1/14 in 2013.
To add specifics to my snark here are results (MSU yards allowed to Michigan / (%) over/under season average
2011: 250 total yards allowed / -9.9%
2012: 326 total yards allowed / +18.8%
2013: 168 (ugh) total yards allowed / -33.4%
Borges slightly bolstered defensive numbers for MSU in '11, significantly hurt defensive numbers for MSU in '12, and heavily bolstered defensive numbers for MSU in '13. These are not sack adjusted so slight grain of salt (very slight).
Don't bring context into this thread
110th to 17th
tells you everything you need to know about Mattison. Guy knows what he's doing. I do expect a better defense this year, but I am concerned about the lack of pass rush from the front 4 - which we didn't have last year. Less concerned about the LB's and secondary.
Narduzzi is the **** because the Big10 has been awful while MSU has been good. Even more, the MSU D gets away with so many PI and PF, it's not even funny.
Narduzzi is a good DC, for sure, but he gets his *** kissed way too much on this board
If somebody posted photos of Mattison's grandkids, somebody else would neg it. It's just the way it is around here.
August 8th, 2014 at 10:30 AM ^
Point taken, and I withdraw my argument.
So why did they handle Stanford the way they did? How does a weak big ten make MSU's defense any less respectable?
FIFY.
You can spell it out. We won't faint.
So the final determination is that Narduzzi is a great defensive coach and Mattison is pretty good too?
2007: 28th; 50th
2008: 61st; 64th
2009: 76th; 62nd
2010: 101st; 48th
2011: 46th; 5th
2012: 25th: 5th
2013: 41st; 1st
Mattison obviously got Mich organized in a hurry, but Mich's slower tempo made 2011 look better than it was.
I'd say we have to evaluate Narduzzi's first 7 years vs. Mattison's first 7 years. Slight issue is that Mattison hasn't been at UM for 7 while Narduzzi has.
Both coaches inherited somewhat of a mess from the previous DC, and both have made obvious gains from where they started. What remains to be seen is if Mattison, armed with recruiting and development, can match what Narduzzi has accomplished and get into the top-10. It also remains to be seen whether Narduzzi can keep his plane flying at that level.
How many more years will Narduzzi remain a DC before he wants a HC's salary? How many more years can Mattison keep going at this high level, given his age advantage? Who would either school tap to replace these skilled coaches?
These questions and more, will be answered, in a season near you and I!
August 7th, 2014 at 10:23 PM ^
Narduzzi just got a bump to >$900K
It is difficult to compare to HC salaries since they have so many incentives and contracts with shoe companies and things but base salary alone would put him around 70th in the country for HCs. For perspective it shows Jerry Kill making $1.2M and Beckman $1.7M
Yes he would get a bump as a HC but its not going to be spectacular jump and at this point he is a conquering hero in EL and anyplace else he goes he will just be a coach on the clock to be fired if success doesnt come within 3 years. He has 100% job security and would be the front runner to be the next HC at MSU if he stayed. I do think he will leave for 3-4 years and then come take over when Dantonio goes but it is not a sure thing with his current status and salary
August 7th, 2014 at 11:11 PM ^
Tim Beckman makes $1.7 million?
FML
For anyone panicking about Hoke's tragectory, this is just another piece of evidence that people should just relax a bit. Having your upperclassmen in place is important, and last year's Michigan team had the highest percentage of underclassmen of the 2000s. MSU under Dantonio struggled for a while before they started having consistently elite defenses.
August 7th, 2014 at 10:46 PM ^
August 8th, 2014 at 12:34 AM ^
Run defense until OSU was actually OK last year despite having a very young rotation - once you got past the Jibreel Black's and Frank Clark's it got young very fast. Pass defense was a horror show. Playing 10-12 yards off WRs almos all year. Lack of pass rush was also bad. There were not many impact players on the defense - I am sure a healthy JMFR would have helped to a degree but the defense was lacking in a lot of areas.
My opinion is any team playing in the Big 10 has an advantage on "stats" on defense and is overinflated. (just as Big 12 is overinflated on offense stats since the defenses suck) We only had 3 teams ranked in the top 50 nationally in total offense as a conference. The offensive competition generally sucks - what high octane offenses did the conference roll out last year? After Indiana, OSU it fell off.. maybe throw in Wiscy who we avoided...I am not going off rankings I am just going off who could roll off a ton of points like a middle third SEC, Big 12, or Pac 12 team could...
We probably have 2 NFL calibar QBs right now in the entire conference. So I think UM - along with many other teams - had inflated stats on defense since they were facing a lot of mediocre offenses last year. Combine a weak conference with some very bad teams in the non conf like CMU, Akron, and UConn - and our stats were inflated. The eye test said it was a very pedestrian defense last year that if was playing in the Pac 12 or SEC would have been exposed a lot more.
To that end:
MSU was #2 in total defense, Iowa #6, Wiscy #7. I don't think if you asked around the nation (with the exception of MSU) people would say - wow what a conference, 3 of the top 10 defenses in the nation! No one plays defense like the Big 10! SOS matters.
So the roids started in 2011.
August 8th, 2014 at 10:31 AM ^
To hell with MSU.
August 8th, 2014 at 10:40 AM ^
What I got from the numbers were once you recruit and get players for your style and system on defense, you will be very good. The first few years of MSU they didn't have their recruits out there yet, but once they did and they were older (what we are waiting for with this team) the defense became elite. That's what I got from the numbers, and it's why I'm excited for the future of this team.
August 8th, 2014 at 10:46 AM ^
I think this year's defense will be better, but top 10? WOuld be thrilled, but that would be a huge improvement from #41. Hoping for top 15, expecting top 20-25.
We'll miss some of the guys we lost, just because I relly like some of the guys coming in doesn't mean we won't miss Black, Washington, Gordon, Gordon, and Avery. DT is especially conerning for me as Pipkins has just now started precticing again so I don't expect him to be much of a force for half the season.
Love our LBs and love our DBs. Need to see more from our D line.