Mattison and defense at the game

They played one of the most explosive offenses in the nation. Let's be real.

I was not surprised.  We gave up 47 a month ago to Indiana, after all, and got run over by Iowa a week ago.  The D has never been all that great at stopping either the run or the pass this season.  The pass rush has been minimal, the DL has struggled to get a push up front, and the DBs have struggled to stay with their men in deep coverage.   Not a recipe to stop the OSU offense.

I think their ability to to run was pretty predictable. We struggle bringing down bigger backs like Weisman and Hyde. I obviously wouldn't have predicted giving up 400 yards rushing but gotta give osu's offense credit. They are pretty lethal when they get Hyde rollin

Playing Avery & Furman was a big mistake. They suck. Also missed Ross

And why wouldn't we basically have Jake Ryan shadowing Hyde?  Realize he isn't a middle LB but I would think he could try and shadow him, on one side. 

In some ways, it is more embarrassing to get dominated like this on the ground.  A passing attack over the top of our D might have scored the points too - but it also might have left Miller injured!  Instead, we seemed to play a soft zone, and 6 man fronts and this became a dominant effort by OSU. 

I remember one 4-play drive they literally scored in 1:16 - on 4 runs!  LOL.  Embarrassing.

thought the biggest thing was their tackles dominated us.  I think we should have been blitzing Ryan off the edge every dam play, he was the only one that disrupted anything in the backfield.

Avery sealed our win 2 years ago with INT.  He is a solid nickel corner playing our of position.  Furman hasn't seen much time at all and looked lost.  Is that his fault or coaching?  Maybe both.  I don't think these guys "suck" at all.

I do think the inability / unwillingness to play 7-8 in box or throw some run blitzes hurt.  And I am not sure but I think Jenkins-Stone getting ejected hurt too - though I hadn't heard him in game prior?

Were just not good enough in the middle of the DL. Pipkins was a massive loss this season and QWASH hasn't seemed to be healthy all year long.

Next year as much as I hate using that word should be better, while young hopefully the younger Redshirted guys like Poggi/Hurst can put on some weight to help in the middle.

Frankly, the most disappointing aspect of this year have been the respective lines. Both need to make huge strides for their to be drastic improvement in 2014. I think Hoke and co understand that which is why I believe a huge emphasis will be placed upon improving the offensive and defensive lines.

It would've been nice to have Peewee all year and in this game as well.

I said earlier in the year that we should play two DT and not a NT and a 3T against the power teams and am not sure how much we used that against OHIO. With Pipkins out I wanted Henry and Washington all game with Black and Wormley used more as ends for contain. Thought i saw more typical 3T used and their larger experienced line manhandled smaller UM DL players all game. I guess you could say pick your poison as the pass was contained and Meyer would have done more spread passing if we did use a stouter line to load up on the run. I thought people say make Miller beat you with his arm so a lot of blitzing with lane discipline ala MSU approach may have worked if tried and we had the right people doing it. Borges may have saved his job and likely did but Special teams were a disappointment again and still. How does the rest of the B10 seem to have better than average kickers and UM struggles..I hope to see more ST focus and teaching and a QB coach under Borges at least for better results. Hart can replace Fred Jackson if he retires also. Hecklinski safe and a lhelluva recruiting coordinator.Poor tackling was again evident yesterday and stark compared to OHIO tackling. How good the LB coach (Smith) is versus Manning I question. Maybe red Deer antler spray like the other teams use is the answer?

Most of our starters/upperclassmen on defense are not the same level of athlete that they were facing.  Also OSU's offensive line is better (way better) than any we have faced this year, and our d-line is still young.  They dominated the line of scrimmage.  I actually was surprised how few opportunities our secondary gave them to make plays in the passing game.  

Well, Pipkins was out and so were James Ross and Jarrod Wilson. We started a freshman (Gedeon) at WILL, and their running back was bigger than our inside linebackers. We were down to playing a third-string nose tackle (Richard Ash). And a lot of our talent is very young.

There are lots of reasons. I'm not really sure why anyone would have expected Michigan to stop their offense. They have pretty good players everywhere. Heck, my prediction was one of the most optimistic ones I saw, and it said that Ohio State was going to score 31. They ended up scoring 7 fewer points than their season average, so that's not a bad day for our defense.

Our defensive ends, I don't think any of them scare anyone as a pass rushing threat. Our tackles are either small, Black, or young, Henry, or injured, Washington. We still have yet to get that recruit that is a DE that will give us 6 or 7 sacks in a year. Wormley and Beyer are not those kinds of guys, Hand would have been that guy.....

I think Henry will be great next year as he improves his leverage and gets stronger. Hopefully Pipkins is back and healthy as he can be a space eater. 

Mone will be a huge key to the difference in a couple years as I believe he will eat up two blockers. I don't know what impact he could have next year as DL is typically a very tough position for Freshman and DTs tend to develop a lot slower.

Michigan's defensive rankings having been misleading these past few years. Are we greatly improved from Rich Rod years? Yes. But I think our D ranking are inflated due to below average Big Ten offenses. Put this team in Big 12 or PAC 12 and we'd be shredded weekly.



Secondary play has been downright mediocre and the D passing stats are greatly helped by crappy QB play in Big Ten. This defense has a long way to go to be elite.

talented O that plays power football. We're very thin at DT, so the loss of Pipkins and QWash at less than 100% seriously limits our run D.

Hopefully Pipkins return plus another yr of growth for young guys like Wormley, Hurst, Poggi, Henry, Heitzman will yield a more stout Dline.

I think the absence of a 0T nose tackle who can command a double team a lot of the time is a key ingredient to successful defense...because then its like having an extra player out there more or less.

I think we all underestimate the Mike Martin effect and what he was able to do.  There are no stats for grinders like this but they literally tip the balance of the team over center.

While we're on DL, I like to see M get an actual position coach for DL to replace J. Montgomery to allow Hoke to be freed up to go address other shortcomings.  Obviously that's Hoke's call...being the captain of the ship...but it makes a lot of sense to me.

I'd like to see our linebackers add more beef, and I think they will get there, no doubt.  Michigan has subsisted on quality LBs for a long time, and that gives us the ability to stop these bigger backs like Hyde and Weisman (LeVeon Bell, etc) as they are going to be here in this conference going forward.  Have to be excited about a bigger guy like Furbush as I think he will fit right in with the proper development.

I loved the way Ray Taylor played the majority of this year.  Seems like teams 'picked' on him a lot more due to Countess on the opposite side, and I kept saying, you can only pick on #6 so many times...then he intercepts.  It appeared his run support was dialed up a lot higher for the ohio game, which was great to see.

I think M purposefully played some softer pass D this year due to younger players, especially in the DB ranks.  I think that could be tightened up at any moment, per Mattison's commands.  I think it makes sense given what we were working with in  terms of youth.  But you see the potential for when the front 7 are studs and you have stud corners too (witness MSU).  The safeties can then cheat up near the line for additional run support on obvious running downs, and be available for blitzes on passing downs.

Braxton Miller is really tough to defend, just because of his foot speed.  Its like Denard except played back the other way.  Send the receivers deep, spread out the D, Miller can juke anyone playing the line of scrimmage, then the WRs just block.  Unless there's someone playing "Spy" who is actually faster its a difficult proposition.

D-line has been a weak point all year and we were down probably 1.5 linebackers. They spread us out and when the D-line got unsurprisingly busted open, there was a lot of room to run. I imagine the best way to stop that team is to be able to hold the LOS and play man with your back 4 or 5. OSU was just murdering us to the tune of 8 ypc.

Just my observation from the game. I had the opportunity to sit somewhat close to the fid and the thing that stood out to me was how small our DL was. OSUs offensive line dwarfed us.

What defense by either team?

It's difficult to play defense anymore at any level.  They allow way to much holding, shoving and pushing.

On the final touchdown, I think. It was scheme also.  Our DT were overmatched. If you watch the replays we have two inside guys against 4 OL and a FB, we had no chance, they called the right play. That was just one example, but they spread the line out pretty well, it would have been very hard to pack it in.  Need two dominant dt, to eat up double teams, only chance.  Lets see how we do next year against OSU and MSU, their offensive lines are gonna be young and inexperienced. We should have 4 legit inside guys if Mone can adjust early.  If we regress, we have real problems.

That was one of the best OLs in the B1G and Hyde had a lot of yac because he is huge. I am pretty sure I saw Ryan and Gedeon spying Miller at times but that would have also been where Ross could be a huge asset (not to take anything away from the guys that played).

In terms of scheme, I agree with stacking the box or at least playing closer to the line but you still run the risk of a big play if they get to the second level. Power spread teams are hard to defend when they have a good OL but they basically dominated the LOS and overpowered Michigan all game.

Agree with a lot of people on here. From what I saw our d-line just got pushed around and once Hyde gets moving he's a load to bring down. Can't really blame our LB's but Hyde was getting hit 2 yards past the line of scrimmage and dragging guys for another 5 yards all day. The dude is good. 

UM defenses cant stop the spread offense. 

A very good defense will take away 1 weapon from a team like OSU - Hyde or Miller.  Make them 1 dimesnional. We are not good enough to do that.  Not close it seems.   You saw what Stanford did to Oregon.  You saw what Ok state did to Baylor.  We are not at the level of those teams on defense.

Having a special teams player start at safety did not help, nor did loss of Ross although Gedeon played great for a freshman.  We contiue to lack playmakers outside of Countess and Jake Ryan.

With all guys healthy (Ross, Pipkins, WIlson, etc) we had a chance, maybe. With all those guys out, we were going to get YAC'd to death and then thrown over the top of on occasion just like Ohio has been doing all year.

As has been said by many above, OSU's running game was at the expense of our interior defensive line.  Hyde is a big back and has to be stopped by equally big guys at the line.  He gets to the second level and he's getting 5+ yards a carry easy.  It's tough to beat a team who can do that consistently.

Now for OSU's real tests:

• Michigan State has the #1 rushing defense in the nation; the #9 rushing defense.
• Florida State the #13 rushing defense; the #1 passing defense.

I think OSU beats MSU, but it'll be another game where OSU's weak links are exposed.

I think FSU torches OSU.

I feel like we have gotten talented players that need to keep developing. Not sure if anyone else feels this way, but I feel like looking at our players compared to many other teams, our guys just "look" smaller. I understand we supposedly have a good strength staff but I always get this sense we are smaller and weaker looking than the other big boy programs

Or the lack of talent that hurts the defense. Small size, lack of any real speed guy pass rushers, and some recruiting misses have led to an average defense. They aren't even remotely close to elite.



Inside backers are just too small. Defensive tackles simply can't get off blocks. That's an indictment on Hoke since he coaches the interior line. And guys like Avery and Furman are not national championship caliber safeties. Guys like Wormley, Heitzman, and Mario O. really need to make that leap next year to show that they aren't just below average, non-playmaking dudes.



Michigan needs better defenders than what they have. They need NFL type guys. That's why getting Peppers was so huge, and losing Hand was so disappointing.

not big enough, or athletic enough up front.  Nor fast enough in the secondary.

We seem to have little options in safeties, reduced to playing a 4 year guy who barely played the first 3 years because he just wasn't that good.

We seem to have a team with lots of potentially good pieces that don't seem to fit together with many more missing pieces.

I think Ben Gedeon has a great chance to be a SERIOUS playmaker at LB. He has the size that we are seriously lacking right now, I think he's damn close to 240 now. Our front 7 will be a little better next season, hopefully Jake Ryan stays healthy and we get some help from the RS freshmen/freshmen on the d-line.

Osu had one of its best dous ever. excuses aside they will score on anyone if they're healthy.

With Ross in there, many 10-12 yard runs would probably have been limited to 5 or 6.  

Furman simply does not stay with/behind deep receivers.  Wilson would have limited those wide open deep balls.  Miller's inaccurate passes saved us from 2 more TDs.

Having PeeWee to help eat up space/linemen could have helped, but he's been out, and by now we should have some alternatives - every team has injuries.

IMO, having a blazing fast ball hawk in the secondary could make a huge difference, and another year of bulking up should help stiffen our line and linebackers.

OSU has a great line, Miller is an incredible athlete, and Hyde will be playing on Sundays.  Tough task to stop them - but we shouldn't get gashed so easily.

The effect when it comes to seasonal averages is sort of intriguing - before the game on Saturday, we were the #16 rushing defense, allowing 116.4 yards per game on the ground on average. Right now, we fell 16 places to #32, with the average now being 139.4 yards per game.

Now, the numbers are tight, so it isn't as if there is a lot of separation between most places, but it is a significant hit in our FBS rushing defense ranking all the same. Interestingly, it only drops us in the conference rankings from 4th to 5th (7th best if adjusted to conference games only). 

Wasn't surprised one bit. I said in at least six threads everyone was severely overrating our defense.

Its all about scheme.  The best way to stop Ohio States offense is by playing 8 man boxes and playing tight press coverage on their wide recievers.  There is no other way.  We don't have the secondary capable of this yet.  Hopefully Mattison and Hoke realize this and are recruiting accordingly.

That was before no JRIII and too much Furman. Not a lot better, because we are undersized/under-talented on the line. Preseason previews said we had a solid back seven with the strength in the LB core, and the line just had to eat blockers to let the LBs slow down the run. When we met an O-line that could handle our front seven, we lost that strength. Not sure how much to read into it other than "Hyde and some lineman will be playing on Sundays" and "Get well soon Pipkins".

The one thing I question with regard to Mattison is why we started rotating safeties in the first place, but hindsight suggests that Wilson has had an injury for some time and playing through it is possible but performance-impacting. Couple that with Gordon's foot injury and here we are.

Hopefully Thomas is ready to step in next year - that punt block is still a fine introduction and I'm waiting to see the next chapter. Henry looks to be maturing nicely as well, which gives me hope the defense will improve.

I tend to agree with Magnus that it is both an experience and talent deficit.   I'm not sure if you play Henry and Washington you even get there.   If we run blitz up the middle they will stretch with Miller and if we blitz the edge they put Hyde up the middle.  The difference last year is we had two space eaters in the middle (Campbell and Washington and to be honest a much healthier Washington I think) and Jake Ryan was max level Jake Ryan and they just couldn't run Braxton stretch.  Hyde still got a lot of yards last year - we were just able to contain Miller much better and a large part of that was max Jake Ryan.  

In addition, those are some big boys in the same system for two years, and I mean most of the meat on the inside is senior level NFL caliber talent.  Moving a mis positioned Black and Washington with undersized linebackers on the second level is not that much of a surprise.

I think we respected Braxton Miller's arm a little too much.  He isn't going to throw seam routes and outside routes for him will also be a challenge.  But unless you can stop the inside running game, all else will fail.  I would have just run blitzed the middle and taken the risk at some point.   Does this open us up to play action and getting gouged on the edge?  Yes but at least you get to flow to the ball that way and can use players like Ryan to make tackles in space.  But honestly it seemed like a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.  There is no Kovacs back there, so guessing wrong (as evidenced by the game) has disasterous affects.  

Give MSU's DC a year with our group and see how their "talent" and "experience" improves vastly. Other teams' defenses out perform us with much less. Recruiting 5 star athletes is not as important as recruiting teachable, eager kids and knowing what to tell them. I would swap fro MSU's DC today if I could.

The title should read, "Mattison and defense at the game?"