Dodd's point was that getting UNC might be the Big10's long term goal. My point was hurting ND would just be an added benefit.
fair point that
Dodd's point was that getting UNC might be the Big10's long term goal. My point was hurting ND would just be an added benefit.
He's on crack.
UVA, UNC, MD and anyone but Rutgers...srsly bring back Chicago.
Just rolled across the bottom of the screen in the Stanford/Oregon game.....
No one in the B1G should surrender to UA's Trojan horse of Maryland just to get their hands on our uniforms. Worst uniforms ever.
As long as Ohio is in the same division as us, I'm fine with it. You can't play "The Game" twice in one season, my head will explode.
it has nothing to do with the fanbases of these schools you derptards
it adds big markets with a lot og Big Ten alums and gets more BTN subscribers on the east coast. And it provides more content for ESPN and Fox to fight over. Plus a conference championship game at MetLife when we're done with the Indy contract.
If it means we realign the divisions so we're in the same one as OSU, I'm all for it.
For all the hatred towards Rutgers and Maryland, we should start a petition to get Purdue and Illinois out of the conference. No one in those states care about those teams and they are mediocre at best in every sport.
Purdue and Illinois basketball (and their die-hard fans) think that you have no idea what you're talking about. Illinois is popular in-state as well, and it has football fans too when the team is mediocre or better (more than you can say for Indiana).
No sane person in this thread is ripping Maryland's basketball program. But RU and UMD are not football powers by any stretch and nobody goes to their games. The ADs of both schools are bleeding money. I was watching a Rutgers home game last year that had *maybe* 5000 people there. You're probably just trolling, but come on now.
The argument was made that Maryland takes a backseat to the ravens. Well Illinois takes a backseat to the bears. People say there are more Michigan fans in NY than Rutgers. Same goes for Chicago with Michigan vs Illinois. Purdue is second fiddle to Indiana. These two schools offer nothing we wouldn't have withou them. Don't use the more mouths to feed argument when we are already feeding multiple schools who don't pull their weight.
Also Rutgers averages 40-45k fans the same as Illinois. I'd cite examples but I'm doing this from my iPod. Google it, you'll see. Your 5k stat is clearly exaggerated.
2011 stats (attendance per game):
Illinois - 49,548
Purdue - 45,225
Rutgers - 43,761
Maryland - 42,355
So you're broadly right. You could more fairly rip Indiana and its 41k per game. But even if RU and UMD are no better than Illinois and Purdue (something I'd obviously argue), how is that a justification for adding them?
Of course Illinois and Purdue have outstanding basketball programs with great history, as does Maryland. And traditional rivalries within the conference. Rutgers has low football attendance and doesn't even bring basketball. The difference between adding Rutgers, UCONN, or Syracuse is negligible - the only difference is two of those schools play great basketball. That doesn't justify adding any of them to the B1G, of course.
PS, there were about 5000 fans at the Rutgers game I saw. It was snowing (not like a white-out, just cold crappy weather), but there were no more than 5000 people there regardless of the paid attendance stats.
I wasn't arguing to add them. I'm stating that if they would be such a drag, why aren't you all attacking the replicas we have in conference? They offer nothing. Rivalries? Rivalries do exist out of conference.
Quick research shows Maryland with 25 team national titles. That's only behind Penn St, Michigan and tied with Iowa in the big ten. Although I didn't see what they were in, apologize for a lack of research on this tiny screen.
I know Illinois won one in basketball a few years ago, has either won any others in the last 30 years in anything?
And Rutgers being the best theyve ever been.
In the event that this truly awful plan comes to fruition, I see two logical methods of dealing with the divisions. First, you could simply add Maryland to the horribly-named division with PSU (they have an old rivalry they could renew) and Rutgers to our horribly-named division. However, in light of PSU football being severely weakened and the (presumed) desire on the part of Michigan to be in a division with OSU and Wisconsin to be in a division with Nebraska and their historical rivals, you could reformat geographically (with designated cross-divisional rivals):
*These cross-divisional games are interchangeable.
This decision has a geographical justification, but would irritate a number of teams. MSU, would lose Michigan from the division and a sweetheart deal where they play an easier schedule than most of their current opponents on the aggregate with a guaranteed game against Indiana. Illinois would not be happy about not having either Ohio State or Michigan as a yearly game, seeing as they consider both schools to be significant rivals (hahahahaha). The same is true of Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, and Northwestern, although getting Wisconsin every year lessens that issue. Ultimately, however, this is an alignment that all schools can live with.
Now, having discussed all of this, I will say that I cannot for the life of me see how the list of teams I'm looking at makes for a stronger league (competitively or economically) than that list of teams without Maryland and Rutgers. Both schools would be perrenial bottom-feeders of their division no matter what their alignment and neither of their football programs command any sort of significant loyalty in their respective markets. It's a mind-bogglingly awful idea.
it makes a lot more sense to put purdue in the West and Sparty in the East
Agreed, although I'm not exactly sure that Michigan, OSU, and PSU would be happy with that from a competitive balance standpoint. On the other hand, PSU may well be a smoking crater of a program once the scholarship reductions kick in, so that objection would go away.
Delaney has magic.
It's not Maryland, it's Florida State. You watch.
And I hate this expansion idea. That being said, if they're going to do it, do something really innovative and add four teams and create four four-team divsions with a two round playoff to determine the champ.
Otherwise go home. And get the F off my lawn.
University of Maryland and University of Virginia, I could (grudgingly) accept. Rutgers, though? Do not want. VaTech? DO NOT WANT!
We are talking about adding members that will be in the league for a century or more. Rutgers is a fine academic school, but has nothing to offer in terms of college culture, while VaTech has neither college culture nor academic excellence. UMd and UVa would add some luster to the B10 over the next one hundred years, though I don't see how either would actually get much luster from joining the B10.
Staying at 12 seems like the better move for the B10 in the near and mid term.
Inside the beltway in NOVA and NW DC and the hill there are more open Michigan fans than open Maryland.
I have no way of judging Maryland fanbase itself because I only go there for destinations and come back out. I don't get the impression that Maryland has the academic research and faculty chops of a Michigan/State/Chicago/NW.
There's a guy on the NW Rivals board that nailed the information before Nebraska joined, he's saying there's nothing to see about this. So let's not waste our time here.
At first glance, the situation appears to be that Maryland is being proactive and making a play for B1G membersip as a way to generate more long-term revenue and visibility. Taking advantage of an opportunity to secure - or at least pursue - a coveted spot in a conference such as ours is a smart move not only for an athletic department, but for unversity leaders in general.
This is not unlike when Mizzou was inquiring about becoming our 12th member. They felt that the Big XII was moving in a direction that was not in their best interest, and they made a run at the conference that could offer them the most value and long term stability. When we said no (an unfortunate call, IMO) they moved on to the next best thing - the SEC.
Instead, we were able to land Nebraska, a university that had a good deal of football tradition, fit in nicely with the conference's geographic footprint, and (at the time at least...) had AAU membership. The one thing we missed out on was the opportunity to broaden the television market share - something that can bring added value to the Big Ten Network as an increased regional viewership = increased $.
Given the fact that we will not land ND - the only player within our footprint that we have yet to add - we should at the very least be open to the idea of new opportunities as we move forward. As we missed out on an opportunity to jump into the St. Louis market and fan the Illinois/Missouri flame (think St. Louis/Chicago rivalries), the only other markets that would make geographic sense would be: PA, NY, DC, & NE.
Pitt and Syracuse are starting fresh and heading to the ACC, so that ship has sailed. Temple? No. BC? Probably wouldn't come now that they've all but guaranteed their ND match-up as ACC members.
Rutgers? I have yet to be convinced that they would be able to draw any more network memberships or ticket sales from the NY marketplace than we already have been. Would a New Yorker be more likely to travel to Rutgers for a game against a middling Big Ten team than they would for a Big East match-up? I remain undecided about this one.
To me, though, Maryland is an intriguing prospect. 1) Fits geographically while giving Penn State some East-side support. 2) AAU membership. 3) If properly funded, their teams have the potential to be competitive in future years. MD basketball would certainly be a solid gain for any conference... 4) Would expand the conference's footprint into the DC market.
Despite the current state of their athletic department, I think that the Big Ten conference should take the time to consider adding Maryland. Such a conference jump would undoubtedly rekindle local interest in the team. The accessibility of Big Ten games could also be a major factor as the metro-DC area boasts a very strong Big Ten alumni base.
But as schools, like recruits, commit in pairs these days, I would like to see the conference make a run at UVA. I understand the initial appeal of Rutgers, but there have also been rumblings that Virginia was unhappy playing second fiddle to VT (think Texas A&M and Texas) during the last conference realignment session. And you have to admit, swiping both Maryland and Virginia from the ACC would be a coup.
2 cents? More like $200,000. Tl:dr
Why the fuck would we say "no thanks" to Missouri last year then turn around and say "Oh boy! Maryland! Golly!" It's Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers, we want. Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers.
Does anyone here want to play Maryland and Rutgers in anything instead of Wisconsin, Indiana, Minnesota, or Penn State?
Right. so stop wanting to see shit teams that bring nothing to the conference except a little bit more money that's not even needed.
honestly, I'd rather be in a division with Ohio than play any of those teams
if that means playing Maryland instead of Purdue I really couldn't care less
Fuck no! Maryland just cut some varsity sports, yeah thats moving in the right direction. Some of the statements on here about the good things that Maryland brings to the table are funny and it screams desperation. Now im gonna go and sit on the toilet and take a Rutgers.
The SEC exit fee = $0. My guess is Mizzou still prefers the B1G and could be flipped pretty easily.
This is worse than the students not showing up today....
"Rutgers has been involved in all five of the all-time top-rated football games in New York City on ESPN2 and been part of four of the five all-time highest-rated football games in the New York City area on ESPN."
Also, went to a BW3 in Central NJ today and the place was packed with RU fans. It was shocking to me, because I would not have guessed it for a noon game. I'm willing to bet there are a lot of fair weather fans, but they are still viewers.
To get the BTN standard in NJ, MD, DC, Northern VA, and NYC would be worth it's weight in gold. You will start seeing Tiffany's and Mercades ads during those games. That's also worth it's weight... All in all, these 2 teams are far superior to Purdue and Indiana!
I'm a fan of the University's football team, not its balance sheet. I'm sick of all this TV market bullshit.
So this occurred to me after hearing Brent/Herbie diss the SEC for their chump schedule this week: Maryland + Rutgers = 9 game conference schedule with built-in patsies + xtra viewers and potential to play B1G championship in NY/MD.
Rutgers has to go to Ohio's division and the Turtles to ours.
New York metro area sports fans aren't particularly interested in college football. I question whether the local cable companies, especially Cablevision, would even opt to carry the Big Ten Network.
only holds 52,000. Would Brandon insist that all UM football games @Rutgers get moved to a bigger stadium?
I live in South Jersey and I see B1G teams supported out here. Besides Michigan fans there are a large amount of Penn State and Ohio fans and a decent amount of support for Rutgers. A lot of my friends attend/attended Rutgers and still support the team. I'm about 90 mins south of New Brunswick (Rutgers campus) and bringing Big Ten teams out here to play would be a great thing imo. I know I would be thrilled to see MIchigan out come beat up on the Scarlet Frights.
I would want Maryland and Syracuse, not Rutgers.
I can think of numerous schools I'd take over Rutgers that meet our contiguous state criteria, in no order:
Either Virginia school now
Possibly even Kansas
What does Pitt bring? Mediocre athletics and we already have Pennsylvania covered.
I think they're a better institutional, geographical and athletic fit than Rutgers. Pitt adds 9 national titles and a Heisman Trophy, a solid basketball program, and a large well regarded research intensive university.
Rutgers adds a win over Princeton in what was essentially a soccer game but we can call it the first football game, a crappy bball program, a good market and a slightly less well regarded research intensive university. Also, it sounds like the name of a chain restaurant.
The only thing good I could see coming out of this is maybe the divisions will be re-aligned and we'd be in the same division as Ohio. I really don't care who else is in that division, but not being in the same division as Ohio is a big mistake.
Going to a 14 team conference means 6 division games and only 2 cross-division games. If you keep "protected" games across divisions, that means we'd play the teams in the other division that aren't protected once every 6 years on average. I don't see how that makes any sense, so maybe protected games would have to go (btw it probably also makes it more fair, or at least more random).
Its too bad the rules force a division structure. I think the thing that makes the most sense is to have one conference with the conference championship being the top two conference teams, not the winners of divisions. I realize their are extenuating circumstances, but how does it make any sense for a 5-3 or 4-4 Wisky team (in B1G) go to the championship game while M, a higher ranked team with a better conference record stays home?
I don't want any more teams in the league. Twelve is enough. If you have fourteen, you're going to have some massively unbalanced schedules/divisions.
Maryland does not fit the mold of a B1G campus, but their academics are solid and they are an AAU member. I definitely think Mizzou would flip to the B1G in a heartbeat. The big ten was originally the number 1 choice, and it offers more money through than the SEC, and Mizzou would be more successful here athletically. Plus, they have rivalries with Illinois and Nebraska already. Like Maryland, they are also an AAU member. These would be the two I would go for first to make 14. If Delaney wants 16, he has a load of mediocre options:
- Kansas - PROS: AAU member, outstanding basketball, good geographical fit. CONS: Awful football, not a great market, and no way they bolt for the B1G without K State.
- Iowa State - PROS: AAU member (how, I dont know), rivalry with Iowa, good geographical fit. CONS: Its Iowa State.
- Pitt - PROS: AAU member, rivalry with PSU, great basketball, good geographical fit. CONS: They dont have a campus stadium, and they only have ahout 20k people show up to their games at Heinz Field, very average football team.
- Rutgers - PROS: AAU member, could potentially bring in NY market and increase B1G's revenue, and also NJ is a good state to recruit in. CONS: Its Rutgers.
- Syracuse - PROS: Outstanding basketball, somewhat of a B1G type university. CONS: Im unsure if NYC watches them, because the 'Cuse is upstate. They arent an AAU member, and they play in a dome.
I always got the sense that Syracuse was to NYC what Illinois is to Chicago... essentially, the safety school for a lot of kids in the area and the team most non-Catholic neutrals will gravitate to as the home team. You see a good deal of Cuse merchandise on people in New York, often on people who don't appear to be alums.
of course it's all about basketball, but they could probably generate bandwagon interest if they were good again
I like it. It's 30% dollars, 70% investment into expanding to the East coast, 100% power play for the future. UA is a rising company, and while Maryland isn't known as a football powerhouse neither was Oregon. Maryland is a good bet as any for a meteoric rise. Rutgers is necessary because the B1G needs a foothold to the NY market. I know, college football isn't big there, but that means there's room for growth.
See, the B1G is on a path towards gradual decline with the change in population around the country. In this age of superconferences, staying put means eventually getting left behind. This will be a three kingdoms sort of thing, with SEC holding the southeast, Texas joining Pac12 to form a southwest kingdom. If B1G wants to compete on equal terms with those two powers, it needs to first grab the Northeast. Add the bonus of giving ND a royal Eff You in the asss, I love what Delany is doing.
"the B1G is on a path towards gradual decline with the change in population around the country"
This is the reason for the move to pick up MD and Rutgers, and has been something Delaney has wanted to do for years. The B1G is the only conference in a declining area, and Delaney knows he needs to fix that.
Maryland fans may not be happy either: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/university-of-maryland-in-... . Story makes it clear that Maryland was not happy about the ND deal and is attracted to the Big Ten by dollars.