Mark Donnal not returning for 5th year
Seems like the writing had been on the wall here but Beilein has made it official listing Donnal among the 5 players graduating and leaving along with Walton, Irvin, Lonergan, & Dakich.
Heres to hoping Teske can figure out how to work his body by next season and/or Davis being a revelation.
https://gbmwolverine.com/2017/02/21/michigan-basketball-2017-season-wil…
In a similar article, was freep so won't link, Beilein said he expects this incoming freshman class to contribute more early on than the current one. He specifically mentions Eli Brooks as a kid who will play right away. Were going to definitely need guard help with Walton being gone and Xavier still finding his game at the college level.
February 22nd, 2017 at 9:48 AM ^
Here's hoping the Wagner to Germany talk is just that....
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:10 AM ^
Same Webb was talking about DJ and Wagner on WTKA Michigan Insider this morning ... He felt they'd both be here another year. He thinks the only issue may be the talent interest that NBA scouts have been showing recently.
It's available on WTKA podcasts to listen to for more detail, but that was the summary.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:13 AM ^
2017 draft is absolutely loaded. For fringe players like Wilson and Wagner, now is not the year to go early. Wilson would definitely go undrafted and Wagner would risk the same fate.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:17 AM ^
The Wagner talk was "prep" in a Germany pro league rather than at Michigan - pay, more training, no school. But that is just talk.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:20 AM ^
Not that this would affect their decision since this was mostly about lottery picks, but I believe I read the top of the 2017 draft is more guard heavy where as the top picks in 2018 are supposed to be more front court heavy.
February 22nd, 2017 at 12:39 PM ^
February 22nd, 2017 at 1:52 PM ^
February 22nd, 2017 at 2:23 PM ^
we have something in between players who drastically underperform and those who perform so unexpectedly well for short bursts that they have no choice but to go because of artificially high demand? Is there a middle ground we can find?
February 23rd, 2017 at 1:51 AM ^
although, Trey did come back for a Naismith season after this kind of buzz after his freshman season, and so did McGary even though we didn't really benefit from his return.
But yeah, Morris left after one good season, Stauskas left after one good season. Hope these guys don't leave after one good season too.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:45 AM ^
I don't understand what the point of Wagner going back to Germany would be. His ultimate goal is obviously the NBA. He will always have the option to go back and play professionally in Germany, but if he does that he will get way less exposure. Obviously he would get paid and be able to live near home, but it really doesn't make sense as a basketball/career move, especially since it appears that he could have an NBA ceiling.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:53 AM ^
Not really. NBA teams have scouts whose sole job is to handle Europe and other overseas teams. In the last 2 NBA drafts, 25% of the players drafted have been playing something other than college ball in the US.
February 22nd, 2017 at 11:17 AM ^
February 22nd, 2017 at 11:36 AM ^
Believe their point is why go back over there when all along he could have played there and gotten noticed. He is already on their radar with the NBA here, so going overseas won't really improve his standing. Unless he feels Beilein isn't progressing his game, or he just wants to get paid while improving his stock.
February 22nd, 2017 at 12:40 PM ^
In college you're limited in the amount of hours that you can spend getting instruction from the coaches. If he plays pro ball in Germany he could spend as many hours as he wants getting instruction from his coaches.
February 23rd, 2017 at 1:56 AM ^
ding ding ding ding. get paid good money instead of going to school? That's a choice most people would make.
He has improved dramatically over the last two seasons, so my guess is that his pay wouldn't have been very good had he tried to go pro in Germany two years ago. I don't know much about their pro system but it might have been a developmental/junior league situation in which he might have been paid meh. But now that he might be able to pull down a big paycheck in Germany, the opportunity cost of staying here another year is pretty high.
February 22nd, 2017 at 12:28 PM ^
February 22nd, 2017 at 12:40 PM ^
Exactly. Obviously the NBA scouts players from all over, but to claim that Mo would have equal exposure in Germany is crazy. All of his games are nationally televised here, and he pops up in highlights and even Sportscenter's Top 10 from time to time.
February 22nd, 2017 at 12:45 PM ^
You don't think NBA teams and scouts have access to the film of a teams games in Germany or other countries in Europe?
A lot of people are acting like this is the mid-1950s where technology was almost non-existent.
February 22nd, 2017 at 3:59 PM ^
They certainly do, but I still agree with the idea he gets in front of more scouts more regularly playing for M.
More than that, GMs and scouts are better able to compare him to his peers in the draft in NCAA games than as a pro in Europe. If he shows growth in the same environment it's also more clear to see than if he takes a leap against different competition.
I think Mo gets drafted when he goes either way, but if he makes a leap in the US more teams will be higher on him than if he makes a leap in Germany.
February 23rd, 2017 at 2:06 AM ^
have adjustment factors for all the major European leagues such that they can compare pretty easily college players to European players.
Guys, the NBA is highly sophisticated in its international scouting at this point. Whatever he does in Europe will get noticed. He'll get plenty of exposure.
If anything, it seems like Michigan players might have a negative perception as "system" guys at this point. No Beilein player has panned out well in the NBA - even the Naismith winner! It might be a situation where our players like like Texas Tech QBs: great numbers, but tough to project to the pros.
February 22nd, 2017 at 12:55 PM ^
The have scouts living in Europe to track and scout European pro prospects. I doubt the Knicks used only YouTube videos to decide on drafting Porzingis. Just because we don't hear about certain draft picks until the night of the draft doesnt mean they haven't been on the NBA's radar for quite some time.
February 22nd, 2017 at 12:43 PM ^
If a team is interested in possibly drafting a player from Europe, they are going to spend a lot of time scouting the player.
February 22nd, 2017 at 3:43 PM ^
And even more than that have been going pro in something other than sports.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:48 AM ^
February 22nd, 2017 at 9:50 AM ^
Maybe I dont remember clearly anymore but it seems odd to me for this announcement to be made now while the season is still underway. Sort of feels like a guy getting fired or quitting a job and then working for the next month or so (looking at you NC State).
February 22nd, 2017 at 9:59 AM ^
I mean, it's senior day. This is what senior day is. It's when you recognize the guys who are graduating and moving on.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:06 AM ^
Does the football team do that? Don't seniors who arent extended a 5th year get the golden handshake after the season or am I completely wrong there?
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:09 AM ^
Harbaugh has all to-be-5th year seniors go through Senior Day now. In the past, it was just a smattering of guys who knew they weren't coming back.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:55 AM ^
Harbaugh has all 4th yr players do Senior day. Doesn't matter whether they are 4th yr seniors (last year of eligibility) or 4th yr juniors (still have one more year of eligibility).
February 22nd, 2017 at 3:45 PM ^
That's what I said.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:11 AM ^
In football, they honor every 4th or 5th year player at Senior Day no matter what and then make the final decision on their status post-season. And some players are honored at Senior Day for two years because of that.
February 22nd, 2017 at 9:50 AM ^
Saw the Donnal news the other day on the board, but not the Wagner rumor... WTF?
February 22nd, 2017 at 9:54 AM ^
Not sure if the Wagner rumor is new or not though. The pro teams in Germany have been recruiting him hard since he got here. Im sure that has only intensified as he has continued to improve. Him staying in Ann Arbor during the offseason again would be really nice on many levels.
You would have to think Beilein is very confident in Wagner staying to not bring Donnal back. A Teske/Davis rotation at the 5 next year would be scary.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:02 AM ^
I sure as hell hope Beilein's confidence in a player not leaving is nothing like's Red's confidence in player's not leaving.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:05 AM ^
Word!
February 22nd, 2017 at 3:03 PM ^
leaving wouldn't create problems in the future.
It seems that when it comes to personnel decisions, Beilein's judgement has not always been perfect. At least when it comes to decisions about retaining players or showing them the door.
February 22nd, 2017 at 3:56 PM ^
It's not like Spike is tearing it up at Purdue. I don't know if he's been hurt or what but his minutes are down and his shooting % is atrocious. I love me some Spike, but I don't think this was a bad decision by Beilein.
February 23rd, 2017 at 2:11 AM ^
Spike is broken. Love the guy, but giving X the handful of minutes he's getting this year is better in the long run.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:07 AM ^
would be nice to believe that, but Beilein has made some really questionable personnel decisions with fifth year guys. Letting Max walk last year when Donnal was clearly not ready and Doyle had a completely different skill set was really, really odd. Unless there simply won't be a spot next year, it is hard to explain not bringing back a two year contributor who does provide solid experienced minutes.
I don't think Beilein is doing so intentionally as some form of "plot," it would not make sense to, but it is starting to look a little shady. You redshirt a guy with the full understanding that it means he will be on campus for five years. Not retaining that player at the end of their fourth year, unless it is a clearly and expressly mutual thing..... I don't know. I don't like this practice. It shows a lack of recruiting continuity and roster balance that ultimately the player ends up paying for.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^
You get a scholarship for four years, that's the understanding. It's not at all shady to redshirt a guy and then give him a firm handshake. It would have been better to play Donnal spot minutes his first year and burn his RS? Consider this year -- JB has said Austin Davis could provide a few solid minutes a game -- would it be better for Austin to burn a year of eligibility to provide a few minutes here or there for a few games or have an opportunity for a fifth year, even if it's not a Michigan.
Beilfeldt got to have a year paid toward an IU business degree and be a sixth man on a B1G title team. He still proudly reps the M. Spike is getting some kind of PU graduate degree and playing for a contender despite being injured. Etc. etc.
JB is doing these guys a solid by preserving their eligibility, and particularly when it hasn't benefited UM overly much with any fifth year guys. From everything we've read he's always up front with guys about their status. The only improvement is that now they just list guys without the RS tag so it's all clear on the roster.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:39 AM ^
just completely convinced me that your position is the correct one. Well done.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:50 AM ^
Ha, that's by far my most effective post ever. And I can see why it seems shady at first glance.
February 22nd, 2017 at 1:03 PM ^
You listened to an opposing viewpoint, tried to understand the opposing position using it, and changed your opinion?!? What the hell are you doing--that's not how the Internet is supposed to work.
February 22nd, 2017 at 1:30 PM ^
Next thing you know, he'll be promoting civil discourse or some other crazy idea. It's a slippery slope, for sure.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:42 AM ^
There is nothing shady about it. You have to earn the 5th year and it has to makes sense for all involved. Absolutely nothing shady about it.
Edit: and EQ RC Blue convinced you! Nevermind my short remedial answer.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:44 AM ^
see yourself short, yours was a fine retort as well.
February 22nd, 2017 at 10:45 AM ^
You'd just run an almost all-guard offense.
February 22nd, 2017 at 9:51 AM ^
no shit
February 22nd, 2017 at 9:54 AM ^
If we lose wagner too then this wont be good.