Hilarious that he thinks Beilein f'ed up the basketball program. What did his Facebook page say about the basketball team before Beilein's arrival?
frank beamer #1
Hilarious that he thinks Beilein f'ed up the basketball program. What did his Facebook page say about the basketball team before Beilein's arrival?
Something about how the "duke people" messed up the great thing Brian Ellerbe had going.
it's a short sighted comment and one that is negative. In practice, he's correct. When you look at basketball & football, this is the worst M has done in a long time. He's correct.
We all know RR needs to win and win big and same with JB. I love them, as do you, but the record is awful by all of our standards.
but basketball? when was the last time Michigan basketball was good? oh wait. LAST SEASON. what about before that?.......
Last year we went to the tournament for the first time in 11 years. This year we were highly overrated and played to our talent level. We start a 6'4" power forward. How good were you expecting us to be?
You're friends with Marell Evans on Facebook?
If its the best school in the country, why did you transfer to...Hampton
And why does he care about what Michigan does?
"Sure, last year was an anomaly in basketball, but man, has UM's main three sports just stunk like UM's dorm food."
Chicken broccoli bake is delicious and should never be compared to the bball team's level of play.
I respectfully disagree with you regarding the dorm food.
Bi Bim Bop
at any rate, i guess when it rains it pours *shrugs shoulders*
Clearly it is the conditioning and not the fact that we can't shoot for shit in basketball, or read a pass in football.
That is actually a really fair comment from Biggs, IME. I don't know how much lifting stuff Barwis does with the other sports (I thought the basketball team worked with some guy who came from Clemson), but they are all having issues, and if Barwis and his staff are involved with all of them, Biggs could have something here. Obviously, it would not be the only reason for the stuggles (lack of depth in both basketball and football, youth, new systems), but it's an interesting point
Bball has their own conditioning if I recall.
Anyway, Barwis isn't really doing anything groundbreaking. Pretty much every NCAA football program is going to give you olympic lifts. He basically just put UM on par with everyone else.
Rondell Biggs, given his felony count for steroid possession, probably isn't the first person to whom I'd look for commentary on proper training technique. But maybe he should be?
What exactly is it you're looking to achieve?
Restricting the discussion to football for a moment, what exactly did RichRod "@#$% up" here? It's a serious question. Does anyone think Lloyd would have taken the '08 team to a January 1 bowl game?
but in all seriousness I do.
Had Lloyd stayed on, there is a chance (albeit a very small one) he gets Mallett to stay. I know we throw around that he was out the door anyway, and that very well could be true, but there is always a chance it could have played out differently had he stayed.
Now let's say Mallett leaves, Lloyd still has Threet, who could have very well been a much better player in a traditional offense. Also, perhaps Lloyd keeps the D coordinator from the previous season.
For many reasons I think Lloyd could have taken the team to a bowl game. Certainly not the rose bowl or national championship, but a low level bowl.
To follow that up though, I loved the RR hire. I knew there were going to be growing pains and , while not considereing 3-9 to be a possibility, I wasn' totally surprised by the outcome.
I think RR will be able to get UM back to respectability if he is given two more years (actually, respectability this year and national prominence in the years to come).
Let's just give him time to see his first class be seniors before we throw this entire experiment out the window and go through the exact same thing while changing systems again. I don't want to go through this again.
If Mallett had stayed, maybe we could have eked our way into a decent bowl (although I doubt it given our horrendous OL and injury-riddled RB corps). But with Threet? No way. He simply wasn't ready to be playing then. If he couldn't make his reads in the relatively simplified RR passing attack, how could he have done so in Carr's more complex scheme? Think John Navarre in 2000, only with far less talent surrounding him.
It doesn't help him in any way at Hampton, and simply makes him look small.
I don't think it's worth getting worked up about in any event. The vast majority of guys on the team are solidly in RR's corner; many of them are going to have solid Michigan careers, some of them will be legit stars here, and the best will play in the NFL. I'd rather focus on what they're doing and saying.
Why are you reading the Facebook page of a Hampton football player?
Maybe they were friends when both at Michigan?
I don't have a problem with what he said, at least about the football program. He's entitled to his own opinion, and it's hard to argue that he's wrong.
And Evans did spend a year under both Carr and Rodriguez, so he has a fair perspective.
reading comprehension here. "Fucked up" is not the same as losing games. And if that is what he means by it, then maybe he didn't get that fair perspective. If our default is to discount behavioral mistakes as the result of "18-22 year olds being 18-22 years old" then I'm not sure how we can fail do the same with their opinion on the state of the program.
I think it is fair to say that simply losing games would not constitue "fing up" a program (we agree on this). However, there have been other things that have happened that might lead others to make statements such as this.
Of course I am taking about "major violations" and people getting arrested etc etc.
To be clear, I find it hilarious that the NCAA would call what has happened at UM "major violations" when most coahces say the same things go on everywhere and the NCAA never does anything about it. However, the fact remains that the NCAA has found there to be "major violations" in the way the football program has been run under RR.
Also to clarify, I don't put the blame on RR for what happened with Feagan or Cissoko. Feagan was a last minute pick and even his HS coach didn't know about his problems so how on earth could RR. Couple that with the fact that he was dismissed from the team immediately and I came out of that situation with even more respect for RR than I did in the beginning.
In Cissoko's case you had a guy who was never in trouble before and simply went off the rails when he hit the big time, it happens. RR gave him a couple chances before dismissing him from the team entirely and given the circumstance I think that was fair (it was mainly dealing with academics, not legal stuff initially). My respect grew for RR here as well because the one position that we could have really used some help last year was CB and Cissoko could have provided that. However, RR stuck to his guns and dismissed one of our few scholarship CB's from the team regardless of the impact it would have on the outcome of the season.
In short what I am saying is I don't agree at all with what Evans is saying, but I can't say that it is unreasonable for someone to make such conclusions given the circumstance.
i'm not railing on Evans for a reason. it's the folks with access to the relevant information i've got a problem with.
Right here, as usual. Facebook stalking, combing the internet for Bad Michigan Stories, put them here, and shit on the people who say them.
Right now, Evans shows he still cares about Michigan and he is just about right.
But I know, NOTHING is Belien or Rodriduez's fault, the Point Pussies will make damn sure you drinkie de kool aid or you will pay--and pay dearly.
Is this the King of Belch?
I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. They have the best dumpsters. Very comfortable.
The only thing that really matters is dumpster sex.
I don't think ragging on your coach is necessarily "caring" about the program. It's more just showing how small and insecure you are that you have to utilize FACEBOOK of all things to complain about your former coach. If he truly cared about the program he would just leave the situation alone instead of focusing it on himself. Evans should know which battles deserve to be fought and which don't.
And everyone here just wants one thing--to win again. I'm sure if you've actually been paying attention the past couple of years, PLENTY has been RR's fault, but that still doesn't take away the fact that many of us (including myself) think RR is our best bet to get back to the top. If we're wrong, then so be it.
It's ridiculous to think that some 20- or 21-year-old kid is going to keep his thoughts to himself so as not to "hurt the program." Kids that age are going to say what they're thinking when there are no repercussions, and Evans is headed off to play at Hampton.
Should you expect a 35- or 40-year-old person to maintain some semblance of professionalism if they get fired/ get pink-slipped/move to a different job? Sure.
But let's not pretend that most 20-year-olds have the foresight/perspective to keep things like this to themselves.
The fact that somebody posted this HERE is doing more damage than Evans posting it on FACEBOOK. All this thread did was bring oodles and oodles more attention to it. He probably only has a few hundred Facebook friends (many of whom don't give a rat's ass about football, I'm sure) and here it's already been viewed 2259 times and counting.
"But let's not pretend that most 20-year-olds have the foresight/perspective to keep things like this to themselves."
But we should take their perspective on the program seriously?
You don't have to take it "seriously" as in get all pissed about it or vote for him for president. All I'm saying is that it's somewhat difficult to argue with him at this point.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
brian certainly could mount an argument. plenty of people have here with you. so it's not difficult. you've just seemingly forgotten what's been documented.
"It's more just showing how small and insecure you are that you have to utilize MGOBLOG of all things to complain about your former backup linebacker."
Well you're never going to get a free Mgohat with THAT attitude.
I read that book. It was awesome.
...it's "hard to argue that he's wrong." The "fuck up" started before RR got here as has been detailed on this blog starting on the defensive side of the ball. The "fuck up" continued during the search for a HC. Sounds like another bitter transfer - but I'm curious why they're bitter (Wermers, Clemons, et cetera).
But whatever. Guess RR had to "fuck it up" before attempting to build it back up.
Say what you want about Lloyd Carr, but his worst record was 7-5. And bringing in another similar-minded coach may have stuck us in neutral in the 7-5 to 9-4 range.
But you can't argue that 7-5 or 9-4 is more "fucked up" than 3-9 or 5-7.
Rodriguez might pull us out of this tailspin we're in, but things have very clearly been FUBAR for the past two seasons. Don't ignore reality for the sake of trying to make a point.
Haven't said anything about LC; I didn't need to. "The little Mountaineers pulled off one of the greatest upsets in college football history" said everything. People complaining about Debord's predictable offense said everything. People whispering about the Club Med type atmosphere said everything. Can certainly argue that RR went 3-9 WITH a walk on QB and RS FR - neither of which were dual threat QBs; several transfers, dissension on the team all while trying to install a fairly foreign offense on the fly - not to mention being undermined from the inside out. Regardless, the "fuck up" DID start before RR got there (defensive recruiting and attrition since '05 has been discussed ad infinitum); not sure why you fail to acknowledge this in your haste to defend his right to voice his opinion. Wrt M.E. sure he's entitled to his opinion and we most certainly can criticize it.
Might want to take your own advice about ignoring reality for the sake of trying to make a point.
Debord's predictable offense got us to 11-2 and 9-4 in the seasons prior to Rodriguez coming on the scene. The Club Med atmosphere got us to 11-2 and 9-4 in the seasons prior to Rodriguez. Etc.
I'm not saying that the pre-Rodriguez Michigan was perfect or anything, but come on...if anything has been "fucked up," it's been the post-Carr era. Are you seriously going to argue otherwise? Two losing seasons, no bowls, potential major violations... I mean, come on.
I'm not ignoring the attrition and such. I fully acknowledge that Rodriguez was dealt a tough hand to play. It's extremely frustrating that he might NEVER have an upperclassman QB at Michigan (that is, if the team does poorly this year and he gets fired).
That being said, "fucked up" does not describe 11-2 and 9-4 seasons. "Fucked up" describes 3-9 and 5-7 seasons, major violations, a sinking APR, etc. Whatever the reasons behind those issues, Rodriguez is somewhere between "partially" and "fully" responsible.
lots of people fall between "partially" and "fully" responsible. Including Marrel Evans, Rich Rodriguez, Lloyd Carr, Bill Martin etc...
5 offensive starters drafted into the NFL from the same team couldn't beat a D2 team. In Lloyd's last 2 years at head coach, he had 13 guys drafted into the NFL. In the following 4 years, he will probably have between 7 and 9. I would think the fuck up happened well before RichRod got to town
So the lack of player development WHILE RODRIGUEZ HAS BEEN COACH is Lloyd Carr's fault?
I'm not here to bash Rodriguez. He's been dealt a tough hand. I think he can win, and I'm hoping he does.
But this whole "Let's blame Lloyd Carr for global warming" mentality is beyond ridiculous.
Yeah, RichRod should be blamed for all the walkons that were beating out Lloyd's juniors and seniors. But since you think there has been a lack of player development, which unbelievable talent do you think could have been drafted or drafted much higher if not for RichRod's horrible development of his talent?
Plus, we all know global warming is the space emperor's fault for kicking a hole in the ozone layer.
I don't know. There's been a lot of attrition and some guys we never saw play much. I mean, Carson Butler had a lot of talent but couldn't earn playing time under Rodriguez. I know he was an asshole, but he was a talented asshole. Lloyd had a knack for developing wide receivers. Perhaps Mathews, Clemons, or Hemingway would have been studs if Carr were still here. Maybe O'Neill would have stuck around and Carr's offense would have fit him better.
I don't know. It's impossible to tell.