Manny Harris in the NBA?
As a casual basketball fan, I have a question for you experts: How do you envision Manny Harris' future in terms of the NBA?
I watch him and agree with everyone that he's a great college player, but I have a hard time seeing him as an NBA player, at least not one in a big role. My opinion is only that of a casual fan, so I don't put much stock in it myself, and if I'm wrong, I suspect it is for one of two reasons. Either he's better than I think he is or he's projected to improve greatly, more than I would have thought.
My take is that while he's a good slasher, he doesn't necessarily have the size for that to translate to the NBA effectively. And while he has a good jumpshot, his decision-making is poor, which will only be magnified in the NBA, where defense is much better. Further, is his 3-point shooting good enough? I know that he has other aspects of his game that help him out though (i.e. a good rebounder for his size and a good free-throw shooter).
Again, basketball is not really my sport, so I make no claims to expertise. I'm just curious what others think and how far off my take is.
December 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM ^
Defense in the NBA is not better. He needs to get stronger. I have only been to one NBA game but they all seemed really lazy to me. The guys who were not involved in the play did nothing but stand there.
December 31st, 2009 at 7:09 PM ^
On any given night, you're more likely to see guys going through the motions on defense in the League than you are in college, especially midseason. But on the whole, defenses are definitely better in the NBA. Manny really struggled today going against Doc Rivers's kid. You think he'd have an easier time scoring on Thabo Sefalosha or Richard Jefferson or Trevor Ariza or Andre Igoudala or Shawn Marion or ... or any other guy he might be matched up with at the 2-3 in the NBA? The guys he'll see on a nightly basis next year if he makes a rotation (very big if) are far, far better defenders than anyone he's going to match up against this year.
January 1st, 2010 at 1:24 PM ^
To claim that defense (or any other aspect of the game for that matter) would be worse in the highest level of basketball in the world than it is in college basketball (which scouts consider to be a lower level of competition than many European professional leagues) defies all rational thinking.
January 1st, 2010 at 6:18 PM ^
WOW bitter crowd here. I didn't say it was worse for one. I said it wasn't any better. I also said I have only been to one pro game so my judgement is based on one game. People always talk about how the NBA does not play defense. I don't know if people on here do not understand basketball so they are negging me or what. If you played basketball or understand how to play basketball you would realize from watching the NBA that on defense they don't try a whole lot. Now I know that there are players that are known for their defense and I also know that in the playoffs they pick up their defense. But I am talking about as a whole. Through the whole year. That's why the college game is better to watch than the pro game. Because they are not a bunch of overpaid, lazy players. They are a bunch of kids that know their career is about over. They are giving everything they have on every play. I know in the NBA they are bigger faster and stronger but they are also worried about scoring so they can get more money and making sure they don't get hurt so they can keep making their millions.
December 31st, 2009 at 7:11 PM ^
Manny is too slow, not good enough with ball handling, and will never be more than a journeyman pro. If that.
December 31st, 2009 at 8:07 PM ^
He probably needs Rosetta Stone at some point during his career.
December 31st, 2009 at 10:26 PM ^
But true. I wish differently, but I fear he will be able to tell us how harsh the winters are in Europe before long.
January 1st, 2010 at 9:27 AM ^
I might be in the minority but I'm not sure he is ready to jump to the NBA this year. I figured with how his game looked last year and the expected improvement this year that he would be ready. But his shot hasn't been falling and he seems to be able to be stopped this year. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out.
First off, I don't see how you came up with slow. His ball handling has went down. He's a natural point guard whose ball handling was great when he got to Ann Arbor. During his freshman year he showed good ball handling and played point for the Wolverines, and led in scoring. After Coach recruited smaller players(Stu Douglas, Zac Novak, Manny became a forward.
The system takes away from Manny's game. The kid wants to go to the hole, and does so effectively. But on a team without great 3-point shooters like Jon Diebler (43%) or Kyle Singler (38%), but the coach wants to shoot tons of 3's, he takes a lot of shots that he doesn't want but fit with the scheme or lack thereof of the system.
If that's slow, how does he to the basket so easily? And when the "natural point" goes to the basket, why do players not go with him and try to get a layup? In the NBA those are potential assists, that should have been assist in college, too. Instead of getting the layup his team steps behind the 3 point line, now those 2 or 3 defenders KNOW he's shooting it and only have to defense the shot.
Journeyman pro? Like Juwan Howard? Is that a journeyman? He lives good. Manny would even accept that, as would a lot of people with pro aspirations.
December 31st, 2009 at 7:13 PM ^
I have my doubts as to how successful he'll be in the NBA, but he should get drafted. Needs to get much stronger and improve his shot. Also, shot selection is a problem. Those were the big questions on him last offseason, and he hasn't seemed to improve them much.
December 31st, 2009 at 7:25 PM ^
He can't shoot. His jump shot is below average. He does rebound and he could certainly be a good defender- I believe- however- he needs to shoot much better. Teams will sag off of him in the NBA and let him shoot from outside all game long.
January 1st, 2010 at 12:05 PM ^
That's fine, because he wouldn't be the focal point of an NBA team's offense. He's be a support player.
Harris is plenty good enough to hang around the NBA for several years. He'll never be a star, but he won't be a twelfth man, either. If you put him on a team like the Warriors or Knicks or Suns, he'd be pretty good. He needs to play for a team that moves the ball, rather than a half-court pick and roll team.
January 2nd, 2010 at 3:23 PM ^
Manny has the raw ability to make it in the NBA, but the problem is, so do many other guys his size. Shooting guard, which is almost certainly the position he'll have to play, is the easiest position to fill. There are many, many guys out there who are 6'4" or taller, have decent athleticism, and can finish. Manny's got to improve his stroke and ballhandling, and become a more disciplined defender if he wants to stand out from that crowd. Right now he is not at an NBA level in those three areas.
December 31st, 2009 at 8:02 PM ^
I think he'll be an early second round pick and have a good shot to prove himself his first two years in the league. He has good enough size to play in the NBA at 6-5 and is a surprisingly impressive rebounder. He is great in transition and is a plus scorer. Where he will have trouble though is on defense and being able to knock down open long range shots. In college he is an average defender at best and is often lackadaisical with fighting through screens, moving his feet, positioning himself properly. He does not have great form on his jumpshot but I give him more credit as a shooter than most. Once he gets into a rhythm he is very dangerous.
All in all, I think he'll land with a pretty good team. If its early second round like I, and many who do it for a living, are projecting, it could be a team like San Antonio, Portland, Cleveland, Orlando, etc. He will have a chance to stick in the league, but will need to improve in those two areas (off the ball defense and outside shooting).
December 31st, 2009 at 8:08 PM ^
Since when do teams who are projecting to go deep in the playoffs, like Cleveland and Orlando, pick at the beginning of the second round? Also, Cleveland and Portland don't even have 2nd round picks next year.
December 31st, 2009 at 8:14 PM ^
Whoops, sorry I meant at the end of the first round
January 1st, 2010 at 12:57 PM ^
I don't know how many of you ever visit www.nbadraft.net
but they have done a pretty good job of analyzing the draft for a long time. They have him going 30th to Memphis. While it's unlikely they will be exactly right, what it does provide is a list of other players likely to be drafted and it gives some perspective on the depth of the pool.
BTW - take a look at the 28th pick.
January 1st, 2010 at 1:10 PM ^
Hmmm. Only three international players going in the first round? That seems too low.
Regarding the 28th pick, did you actually mean the 26th?
December 31st, 2009 at 8:11 PM ^
Sims has the best chance of succeeding in the NBA. He is more athletic than Manny, better body, and can play with his back to the basket. I know Manny had a injury before the season started and I do not think he is 100% yet. Manny would be better served if he stays in school for his senior year.
January 1st, 2010 at 1:40 PM ^
Sims is too small to play PF in the NBA. I can't think of an NBA PF that he could defend one on one and he doesn't rebound well even at the college level. He is not athletic enough, have the handle or a good enough outside shot to play SF in the NBA. Unfortunately, he is an NBA tweener and will probably have to make a living overseas. The highest NBA projection I have ever seen for him was mid second round and he has disappeared from every updated mock draft.
I'm not trying to bash the kid, I just don't see him sniffing a pro roster.
January 1st, 2010 at 1:13 PM ^
Sims is a tweener. He has a hard enough time playing defense at this level; how's he going to do it in the NBA?
January 1st, 2010 at 5:51 PM ^
Agreed about the issues with his size vs. position. But in the NBA, he will almost certainly not have to defend guys 3-6 inches taller every single night. He's playing center for us - that's a big part of his defensive problems.
January 2nd, 2010 at 3:08 PM ^
Actually, if he's playing the four, he will be mostly defending players who are considerably than he is. If he's playing the three, he'll be defending players his size, but much more athletic than he is.
January 1st, 2010 at 5:46 PM ^
DeShawn is not more athletic than Manny. Peedi is actually lacking in the athleticism department, according to what I've read about him. And from what we see when we watch him- he either has short arms, or pedestrian ups, or a combo of both. He doesn't explode off the floor like he'd need to in the NBA, and isn't quick enough to defend the SF position at the next level. His best bet would be to hone his jumper to the point where he's a deadly outside shooter, and try to be a poor man's Danny Granger, IMO.
As for Manny, I agree with what other say here- he must, must improve his jumper significantly to have a chance to be a successful pro (like 7th or 8th man on an uptempo squad like the Suns or Knicks).
December 31st, 2009 at 8:10 PM ^
At his height, he'll play the two in the pros. He needs to shoot better from outside if he is going to do that. I think he needs to stay at UM another year and improve his shooting. I'm sure nobody on the team would object.
December 31st, 2009 at 8:14 PM ^
in order to be a decent player in the league. The fact of the matter is that Manny has a 3 man's game in a 2 guard's body as it relates to the NBA. The mechanics on his shot are poor, the release point is much too low because his elbow is never straight/tucked in, and his body is never squared up, and so his shot is very inconsistent. He has a tendency to go right 90% of the time when driving to the rim, so he definitely needs to strengthen the handles with the left hand. Athletically speaking, Many is a slightly above average athlete for the NBA, but not athletic enough to get him through with that quality alone. Has good vertical speed, but not that quick laterally, and more important not that elusive with the ball. In terms of rebounding, Manny is effective at the college level because he can simply outjump 90% of the competition, not so much in the NBA, so I don't see him being a board machine in the league.
Overall, Manny is a man without a position in the league unless he can significantly improve his outside shot. Doesn't handle the ball well enough to play point, doesn't shoot well enough to play the 2, and is too small to play the 3. He'll be a 2nd round pick, might play a few years, but that's about it.
December 31st, 2009 at 8:32 PM ^
That's a very accurate analysis of his offensive game at this point. In addition, he will have trouble defending at the NBA level. I don't see why everyone is so sure he will leave early. He's projected high second round without factoring in early enrollees. By the time all of the underclassmen declare, he will project mid to late second round and would be foolish to come out after this season.
January 1st, 2010 at 11:37 AM ^
You can never assume someone's future in the League, but right now Manny's biggest problem is decision making. He has great ability, but not great enough that he can have Kobe's shot selection. On top of that he has made key turnovers in big games and is a below average defender for his ability level. Not to be too hard on him, he has also made several spectacular/key plays and has loads of potential if he's willing to put the work in.
January 1st, 2010 at 11:37 AM ^
You can never assume someone's future in the League, but right now Manny's biggest problem is decision making. He has great ability, but not great enough that he can have Kobe's shot selection. On top of that he has made key turnovers in big games and is a below average defender for his ability level. Not to be too hard on him, he has also made several spectacular/key plays and has loads of potential if he's willing to put the work in.
January 1st, 2010 at 11:54 AM ^
That is the point of this thread - is it not? Not that I'm an NBA GM or anything, but judging from Manny's current game, athletic attributes, and overal potential, I just don't feel that he has a legitimate shot at being a starter in the NBA.
While I do agree with you that Manny's decision making is suspect at times, it is MUCH BETTER than the previous 2 years, and his TO's have gone done significantly since his freshman year as well. However, at the end of the day decision making and TO's can be overlooked provided that the benefits outweigh those factors, and simply put, Manny doesn't stack up well in the NBA if measured by that equation.
When I look at players like Shannon Brown, who is MUCH more athletic than Manny, handles the ball better, and currently has a more consistent outside shot, and yet can't crack the starting rotation - I just don't think the odds are in Manny's favor of having a lengthy NBA career unless he polishes up the jumpshot quite significantly to be honest.
January 1st, 2010 at 12:37 PM ^
Is it just me or does manny never dribble with his left hand? Never drives down the lane with his left.
It drives me crazy he always goes to his right, at least from my casual fans perspective....
January 1st, 2010 at 10:14 PM ^
To me Manny Harris has all the potential in the world to have a 10+ year career in the NBA, key word being 'potential'. Potential in my mind means you haven't done anything yet, but 'something' is there, you just have to bring it out.
Manny's game translates better to the NBA style. Beilein's offense doesn't necessarily fit Manny's game and I really believe if Manny had better players around him he'd be even more of an impressive collegiate.
Great wiry body (he does need to improve his strength),
quick jumping ability, nice length, playmaker, and overall just a lethal shot maker.
Best case scenerio for Manny is Jamal Crawford. Manny definitely has a way to go in terms of explosiveness and ball handling ability (and will never be as athletic as Crawford)but there's no reason Manny can't drastically improve his outside shot just like Crawford did in a short amount of time.
Worst case scenerio is Maurice Ager/Tarence Kinsey type of players, fringe NBA players (currently not in the league) who don't really excel at one specific thing but have just enough skill to hang around
January 2nd, 2010 at 3:20 PM ^
I can't tell if your avatar is Jemaine from Flight of the Conchords, Jeff Goldblum, or my Uncle Paul's senior picture from 1978.
January 2nd, 2010 at 3:00 PM ^
Manny biggest problem is the the talent around him. U of M has the unique problem of having a plethora a jump shooters who can't shoot. Defenses collapse around Manny and deny him driving to the lane. Sims and Manny are the only players on the U of M roster who have Big Ten starting talent. Manny will be a better player in the NBA because of two things. First he will probably be on a team where he is not required to do EVERYTHING for his team. Secondly, he will no longer see true zone defenses which stop his driving to the lane.
I'm a Michigan fan but Manny's biggest mistake was coming to U of M in the first place. He would have been better of going to a place like Memphis were the offense is tailored to his skills, the talent around him would have highlighted his strengths, and not exposed his weaknesses. I know you fellow fans might not want to read something like this but it's the truth. When he and Sims leave this year you will see how terrible the talent on this team is without him.
January 2nd, 2010 at 5:17 PM ^
While our role players certainly aren't helping things by putting up a million bricks from three-point land, that has little to do with Manny's continued inability to dribble with his left hand, shoot with consistency from long range and move his feet on defense.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:27 PM ^
Role players should be come off the bench in the Big Ten. Thats our problem we have one star one starter and a bunch of sub par role players. We have three starters who might not even start on MAC team. All players have flaws, you just see Manny's more because you watch him more. His flaws can be corrected with the proper NBA coaching. Belien does not produce NBA players with his system. Just look at WVU after he left and Huggins took over. Say what you want about Huggins but he develops NBA talent.
Manny won't correct his problems until he goes to the league where he will be able the practice 24/7 instead of the time limited by the NCAA. We need more talent on this team period otherwise look for a 20 loss season next year.
January 2nd, 2010 at 10:42 PM ^
Couldn't agree more.
It could be extremely ugly next season... who's going to start in the frontcourt? Morgan, Evan S., Blake? Not intriguing.
January 4th, 2010 at 3:24 PM ^
that huggins develops NBA talent... i don't know about players that have graduated from WVU in the last couple of years, but there sure as hell isn't that many players from his days at cincy and k-state in the league. van exel and k-mart are his only players to do something in the NBA. ruben patterson is a sex offender and is now playing in europe and beasley would have gone straight into the NBA out of HS if the rule hadn't changed. huggins might get some great atheletes (all of his bearcat teams)but that doesn't mean they will be good/decent/average NBA players...
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:34 AM ^
He might be able to stick it out on an NBA bench somewhere, but he's not going to be a 1st round pick, he's not going to be a starter, and I'd be surprised if he ever made much of an impact.
He's not that great of a shooter. He's not that great at taking the ball to the rim. He's not that great of a ball-handler. He's not that great of a passer. He's not athletic or strong enough to guard most starting NBA two-guards.
If I was Manny's advisor, I would tell him this: Go back to Michigan for your senior year. Work with Mike Barwis, get bigger, stronger, quicker. Work with John Belein on your shooting. Work on your ball-handling skills. Work on your passing. If you're going to make any kind of impact in the NBA, it's going to be as a Jamal Crawford-type combo guard.
January 4th, 2010 at 3:33 PM ^
Only because the guy sitting next to me at the OSU game was an NBA scout. He said he was there to look at Manny. He had a bunch of literature, stacks of paper, with him, that he almost never looked at. He was on his Blackberry, texting, for about 95% of the game, although clearly he was watching the action, too.
That's all. He said nothing about anybody's prospects. And I sure wouldn't know how to grade NBA talent.