It ain't happening.
Malik names a top group devoid of Michigan.
Develop talent and it doesn't matter.
Maybe we should've recruited some kids from Ishpeming (the team that beat Loyola two years in a row, including 2012 with Malik).
Develop talent and it doesn't matter.
Yeah, recruiting matters, but sometimes even top recruits don't pan out the way you hoped they would. And when you don't get the top recruit, you do better with the recruits you did get.
Better FSU than MSU.
I thought his parents were Michigan fans. That's been the talk his whole recruitment.
I don't think the coaches offered his parents.
I know that but the OP stated that his dad is a huge FSU fan.
LOL. Looks like we should've.
Both parents care about the education, but I read that his mom cares a bit more and she really likes what Michigan presents from an academic standpoint.
I also read recently that msu has been doing a good job of convincing his parents about the academic opportunities at msu.
Parents not sold on MSU at all.
The "value of an UM diploma" doesn't simply mean earning power in his 30s and 40s - it also relates to the quality of education (experiences, professors, other students) that make UM significantly better than MSU and most of his other choices.
As an alum, I'm biased by my experience and extensive facts.
Regardless, hope they make the right choice for the long-term.
Damn you 2013! Oh wait, it's 2014.. Anyways, he's been long gone for a while, this is not a surprise.
I think you are correct, when was the last time this sphinx of a recruit gave us any promising signs? I think we just assumed since we had momentum this summer...momentum is now gone bye bye.
Hopefully anywhere but Staee.
That would be just as bad
Remember when we were wondering whether there would be any playing time left for Lawrence Marshall?
Malik said he had a top 7, then only listed 6 teams. I don't think he was saying that he had officially eliminated Michigan...I guess take it fwiw that Michigan is the team he forgot.
Wouldn't want him anyway. His math skills suck.
Hurts to miss out on 2 of the top 3 in state guys, but this is a great class. Wonder who Brady and the crew go after for that spot in the class.
For the most part this staff closes early and has no success finishing late.
Honestly, Hoke didn't have a huge amount of top level schools to beat out. By that point, most of the big time offers Green had at the beginning weren't really chasing him any more. Bama, Oklahoma, and OSU already had filled up at RB. Green waited too long. Not trying to discount him as a player, but his field of sutiors had dropped off considerably by December last year.
I've never felt like Malik would end up at Michigan. I would love it if Malik played for Michigan, but I just felt like he's been looking for reasons not to go blue. He could really be a BIG help to the D-Line, and probably have a good chance at early playing time.
Dont have to look much further than the product on the field for reasons not to go blue.
That's the sad truth. The silver lining of that is what I mentioned- early playing time, and a chance to help turn things around in his home state. Also, all of his family and friends could easily attend his games. I'm not holding my breath, though.
Chickens coming home to roost.
You're talking about EMO posters, right?
were just emo losers with sand in their vaginas. Hand will look awesome in the winged helmet next fall.
It's not often that a post puts a smile on my face or makes me actually 'laugh out loud'.
That was solid.
This really isn't shocking news. If anybody has been reading the signs or, like Brandon Brown says, the lack thereof. Those are three really good options for a high school football player to choose from. Moving on.
Really strange recruitment... First he claims he's ready to commit to Michigan. Then his parents make him wait. Then his parents love Michigan, but he no longer likes Michigan...
Is it really that strange? I feel like this kind of recruitment happens at least once a year for us. (Treadwell, Diamond, Garnett, etc)
not too strange, hes been tight lipped the whole time. as an 18 yr old he has the size and athletic ability to project as nfl caliber player - whether he gets there or not , only future will tell. but if hes looking to develop into an NFL DE or DT while also winning some games why would michigan lead his recruitment? he could be the biggest UM fan in the world but the product on the field and recent trending speak volumes. his other choices are stable programs that have been winning pretty consistently for past 5-10 yrs and trending upwards while developing talent and sending multiple DL to NFL. UM is a great place, no denying it, but theyre relying on history and tradition and will continue to do so as theyve been doing since approx 2005 until they compete with big boys on the field in consecutive seasons. and while hoke has given these current high school kids plenty of reasons to look at UM, hes given them more reasons to hesitate and look elsewhere due to repeated poor performances on the field. just an unfortunate fact. id probably go elsewhere if i mcdowell and i had visions of both winning big bowl games and developing into top draft pick. maybe hoke rights the ship, maybe not, but the school gave him 4-5 years to do so and theyll let it play out....but as far as signing with proven commodities right now, UM falls tier below fsu and osu and other programs that have been getting it done
I shudder to think what recruits will do with another 7-8 win season. And thus a new coach.
This guy has been irrelevant to me for months. Writings been on the wall.
Isn't coming here. Move on.
What a surprise! Just kidding. He's never been close to the other recruits, so I don't see why he should come here and be unhappy
That on UTL II his plans were to go home with his parents, but he ended up spending the night in town because he was having so much fun. I could be wrong....
FSU might not have space. They just took another DE this morning
They have a few questionable takes on board right now. Malik would push them out for sure.
Also, Damien Harris removed all Michigan stuff from his Twitter profile, similar to what George Campbell did....
Well that is just awesome.
The George C deco mitt hurt, but Harris is a UofM fan...would hate to lose him. He is a game changer.
We need a dynamic RB, with Green and Smith looking like nothing special. Harris is that dynamic RB, so I completely agree
Yall really need to understand just how much that "he grew up a _______ fan" shit doesn't matter with these kids when it comes to them picking which program is best suited to put them in the position to make millions.
The same with kids who say they "academics" are a priority when picking a college (a la D. Hand). Not to say it isn't a factor at all, but the vast majority of that talk is honestly just lip-service. These kids wanna develop into pros & win games, usually in that order. Hoke & Co isn't doing that at the level these recruits desire right now.
There is a distinct difference between being a life long program/ school fan and being "interested in academics."
The academics reason is typically superficial and even when it does matter it usually is not "the" only reason.
A life long fan should make you hard to beat. More importantly your scheme argument is bogus and is just cover for your program cynicism. The cynicism is fine with me bad the bad argument....is just well off. Kids a five star rb, applying to his dream school, loaded with 4 and 5 star rb prospects, with a coaching staff committed to the run to the point of insane stubbornness.
Losing is clearly the biggest problem in recruiting top talent, not scheme or anything else.
You know how many kids Michigan has pulled out of Ohio that grew up "lifelong OSU fans"? More than u think, dude. Trust me. Those that ended up at Mich did because they thought they fit in better here, whether it be earlier PT, they clicked better w/ the coaches who were recruiting them, fell in love w/ the campus on visits, etc.
A different sport, but Tyus Jones will end up at Duke, though earlier in his HS career said he grew up w/ MSU as his favorite school...and MSU is considered an ELITE bball program. Problem is, Izzo isn't producing lottery picks. Kyrie was #1 a couple years ago. Jabari could follow this year. When it came down to it, MSU wasn't even in his top 3 or so.
We can give examples all day, point is, kids ending up at schools they didn't grow up rooting for ALL THE TIME. I will give u that the "academics/lifelong fan" isn't the same "canned answer that sounds good". Whenever a kid says that tho, all that means to me is he'll definitely consider that school, but not a lock by any means, especially if they didn't grow in said state of school/has family ties to it.
That's not "program cynicism" at all, its "I've been a HS recruiting nut for far too long to just those type of quotes w/o a grain of salt". Cynicism of the information these kids are willing to give annoying "recruiting analysts" that keep blowing up their phones? Thats probably it.
...and I never said anything about Mich's "scheme". Don't know if you were directing that at me or not.
The whole "I've been a lifelong fan...but I'm not going there" is really indicative of how bad things have gotten for Michigan. If they were still a top program and winning 9, 10 games a season on the reg, then they would be pulling in the majority of these types of kids.
But the fact of the matter is, the program isn't very good, so despite being big fans of Michigan, the kids find it in their best interest to go elsewhere. Its sad.
He sounds like a jerk.
He did that weeks ago, and his parents have confirmed his commitment.
He had the Michigan background and info until today, I think.
This is the second time we've gone through this "he removed Michigan from his twitter" stuff. Overanalyzing.
A 16 year old kid changing stuff on twitter?
"He changed his background! OMG...he's gonna decommit! Fire everyone!"
He took it off a while back, but I am not worried. He is good friends with Peppers and even tweeted today saying how much of a role model Peppers is for him. Peppers will keep him around.
Also he is playing as Michigan on NCAA. Come on now, everybody knows that whoever you use on NCAA is your dream team.
Lord, please forgive me for being so unholy to this man @GalenHarris__
This is one source, none of the michigan guys have said anything.
No one on scout, rivals or 247 has said anything so I don't buy it.
...so I am not taking this as bad news for 2014, just reaffirmation of a crappy 2013 thing.
Will someone put me in a medically induced coma and bring me out of it when there is goods news?
Probably just get some life perspective.
Go down with you!
And we haven't so yea that's how the cookie crumbles
The best news I have to offer is an unsubstantiated rumor [from Ace Williams that is certainly fabricated because it came from Ace Williams.]
\grasping at straws
ED:BISB - NO ACE WILLIAMS.
Make me extremely happy.
Too bad DB won't even make a call to gauge interest. Oh well, hopefully he or his brother are interested in 2015 after another subpar Michigan season in 2014.
Even if that rumor were true, the interest would have to be mutual. Brandon already has his Michigan man in place. Hooray for the program.
Did you just create this rumor?
With emphasis on rumor, this comes from Ace Williams.
Like Aerosmith said, "Dream on. Dream on. Dream on. Dream on. Dream unitl your dream comes true."
ACE WILLIAMS ISN'T A THING.
Quoting Ace Williams is punishable by catapult
"unsubstantiated rumor" and ""emphasis on rumor" is clearly not quoting anything. Is it? Keep it straight.
But now that you mention catapult, Johnny of Jimmy could catapult Michigan into the Empyrean heights of college football in a heartbeat. Do you want to try to tell me stranger things have never happened?
Thank you. Seriously, cool dog BiSB.
Never ever ever EVER use anything from Ace Williams. Remember Chunk from Goonies, and all his fantastic stories? That's Ace Williams. IIRC, he's the same guy that made some outrageous claims about The Horror.
Isn't The Ace Williams a kid in suburban Detroit according to fearless leader?
"Ace" rumours not historically credible though periodically interesting for conversational purposes.
Trebuchet has a nice ring to it.
Harris took the UM stuff down weeks ago, but is still committed to UM.
You don't go through a season like Michigan with players saying they did not have their heart in it without consequences. As well as Hoke can recruit, the stench from this season has become toxic. The coaches need to be all over these recruits trying to keep them in the fold. Let's hope the MIchigan brand with its outstanding academics will prevail.
and I think we're going to have at least one additional high-profile decommit.
Any thoughts as to who you suspect that would be?
We've had an enormously disappointing season that ended about as poorly as you could fear, which in turn simply amplified the growing questioning of our coaching staff's abilities that arose during the season. The success of MSU has brought to the forefront the issue of developing talent, and right now it doesn't look favorable to UM.
Combine this background situation with the fact that so many kids are committing so early these days, and I think that it's just human nature that some kids will be privately wondering about the direction of the Michigan program, and I think it's likely one of those will break ranks and bolt. Other schools don't back off just because a HS kid verbally commits to UM, and if one of those schools has a football program that at the moment is on the upswing, it will be very seductive to at least some of those kids who are wavering.
If Hoke & Co. manage to keep all the present commits and add a couple more quality kids with the remaining scholarships, it will be a tremendous sales and marketing job.
Wouldn't Malik McDowell have to commit prior to decommit occurring or are you relating this to G. Campbell?
I'm just thinking of the class of current verbal commits, that's all. Believe me, I hope I'm dead wrong. If anybody can keep the class intact, Hoke is up to it, but I think it will be a very tough task.
I hope you're right Don, and I hope that high-profile decommit that we're going to have is Da'Shawn Hand, in what will be the first miracle performed by the Commish.
kid has got to do what's best for him, if he somehow commits to Mich, I will welcome him with open arms, if not, on to the next guy and so on.
The decision of a 17/18 y.o. Will not send you off a bridge?
Why so calm? The sky is clearly falling.
I read that we made his top 7, which is it?
It sucks, because I bet if Michigan had won 9-10 games (PSU, Iowa, Nebraska) then a lot of this would've died down. It would've still been an underachieving season if they had pulled out those wins but 9-4 or 10-3 looks a hell of a lot better than 7-6.
Three losses are still more than what has been suggested as his top 3, have combined.
Jerry Montgomery made the right career move after all.
I have wondered about the loss of Coach Montgomery. The D line has sucked since he left. Talent and all considered here.
Michigan hasn't done very well on the recruiting trail since he left either. As the best or one of the best on the staff at recruiting, it'll be interesting to see how they do down the stretch and in to 2014.
Michigan will prevail. Though it might require a different regime.
There is, of course, a NOLA.com article from yesterday - HERE - which still includes Michigan on the list and reports that he does not yet list a favorite.
"I feeling all of them a lot right now," he said. "I wish I could go to all of them. It's going to be hard. It's going to be real hard."
It may not be us in the end, but this is simply to illustrate that not all sources believe we are more or less out of it as the OP seems to suggest.
In the words of Tom Brady "not everyone gets to be a Michigan Wolverine".
OSU has been to 10 of 12 BCS bowls, the only 2 missed were due to probabation and Fickell. MSU has had 3 seasons out of 4 of 11 wins or more, something UM has never done (yes there are more games nowadays but its been a long time since UM won 10 games 3 out of 4 years if you want to adjust), and is playing in the 2nd best bowl game this year (#4 v #5) after a great performance versus said team which has been to 10 of 12 BCS games.An
And then you have UM with the all time winning %...err ok, well all time wins. And his parents like it. And its defense just looked like swiss cheese vs OSU and KSU. I mean this should not be a question anymore if you are a defensive player. If a kid wants tradition AND winning you go to OSU in the Midwest. If you dont care so much about tradition and you see a staff that takes a bunch of 2-3 star talent and turns it into NFL stock you take a close look at MSU. An annual top 10 defense now now that Dantonio has had time to build his program. If you care about what happened in 1938 or 1986 you look at UM.
Mattison had a window of opportunity with "come with me and Suggs, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed etc"...and Hoke had a window of opportunity post 2011 Sugar saying we are a year or two away to be OSU level...we need you to help us there. But now as we move further away from the Mattison NFL years and the 2011 BCS bowl glow and replace that with the on field results the past 2 years, this will happen.
I think the real damage is in the 2015 class because there is no way to now which kids who would once consider UM now will not, and which kids who would have had UM in a top 3, now just throw them in the top 10 because hey its Michigan and my dad said they used to be good and they have cool helmets.
Longer term the RR/Hoke era probably is going to do even more damage if things dont turn around quickly as many teens now dont remember a "very good" UM program - one year like 2011 doesnt change perception.
UM still is getting a lot of good kids and I guess the staff needs to do what every other staff does - you know, develop them. Build a team from the ground up, and not insert 4-5 stars everywhere and clap your hands and expect it all to just happen. I am not saying they are not working hard but apparently something is amiss since we are not seeing results on the field. And dont blame youth - the team was not "young" in November and was horrid on offense a few games and then horrid on defense the last 2. Not bad, horrid. That is coaching.
I largely agree, though I'll take issue with dismissing the "youth" argument because they played a bunch of games. Lots of those kids playing on defense had only played for part of the year because they were true freshmen and those guys have to earn playing time. And at the same time, they are playing against significantly older players - OSU had a very old and experienced offense, and KSU imports so many JuCos that there is a significant age difference in addition to skill. Players don't usually improve more than incrementally during the year, but in the off-season I expect we'll hear about all of these first and second-year players making far greater strides.
It is true that Michigan has lost some luster, but it was still one really "down" year after two decent seasons. 11-2 in 2011 was a bit of a mirage, but 8-5 last year came against three teams that lost a total of one game between them (and that was Alabama beating ND in the MNC), a last-second loss in a bowl game to a top-10 USC squad, and at Nebraska after Denard went down (UM was very much in that game before it happened). I wouldn't be surprised if this season is treated as the anomaly, and next year the squad bounces back to 9-10 wins, which has been the general pattern for UM for the past 10-15 years.
OSU will always have more resources because of their recruiting footprint, storied history, and lax enforcement policies. And maybe MSU is a sleeping giant of sorts awoken by Dantonio (though, again, "player development" of 2 and 3-star kids is usually not sustainable at this level. Look at Iowa for a better example), but I still think UM is a destination school for good kids who also favor an elite education and all of the ancillary benefits that come from the program. Maybe it means UM will struggle to get some kids, but a couple of down years aren't going to change the academic rankings, the history, and (one hopes) NFL prospects for elite kids.
Its been almost a decade since Michigan could be considered elite. They've had one decent year in 2011 when they won 11, and the rest of the seasons have been what any other top program would consider terrible -- 7/8/9 wins.
And they are at least a couple of years away from being able to be considered elite since you've got to string together a bunch of 10 win seasons or championship games appearances to get to that level. And it sure as hell ain't gonna start next season.
Like I said above, its sad.
And dont blame youth - the team was not "young" in November and was horrid on offense a few games and then horrid on defense the last 2. Not bad, horrid. That is coaching.
Well, because you said so. Srsly.
Is it really just coaching though?
You talk about Dantonio "building" the Sparty program but you don't acknowledge that upper class depth matters. Would have been nice to have introduced RS seniors Vlad Emelien, Isiah Bell, Anthony LoLota and Adrian Witty on Senior Day before the Ohio game. Would have been nice to have Cullen Christian, Demar Dorsey, Carvin Johnson, Davion Rogers, Ray Vinopal and Ken Wilkins on the field...
Plainly, this is a young team and, unlike your cited Mark Dantonio, Hoke has not had time to "build his program" as you discuss. As is clear above Michigan also been devoid of upper class depth and it absolutely impacts the defense.
You say "build a team from the ground up" and Michigan's recruiting is doing that (Pipkins, Taco last year, Mone etc.) but this takes time regardless of "stars".
The lack of upper class depth is the telling factor on defense.
And dont blame youth - the team was not "young" in November...
There's an element of truth to this but the flipside is a lot of these first year players are getting mentally and physically worn down toward the end of the season, so you can see inconsistency and even regression. You can make a case for a quantum leap forward next year when all these new guys have had a chance to stop and process everything.
Trying to stay positive.
Malik is not coming. Those that still have hope are kidding themselves. Guys like him with this type of protracted recruitment don't seem to work out for us. If he's looking at osu, FSU, Bama he's not coming. Now I hope I'm wrong but save yourselves the trouble and consider him not part of our class and you'll be happier for it.
I saw this artice yesterday, wanted to make a thread about it before I realized im not in the illuminati yet.
He's saying the same things he's been saying. He has a top 7, Michigan is in it. I, like a lot of others in here, isn't confident in him ending up in AA. But that's not because of anything he's said, but he hasn't said anything. He's keeping everything close to the vest, and has said he's waiting until Signing Day to announce.
If I had to read inbetween the lines, it actually sounds like he would rather stay in the midwest. Sounds like he's just visiting the southern schools just to see whats out there. Sorta feels like a MSU/OSU battle for him, but again, thats just a gut feeling.
I saw this artice yesterday, wanted to make a thread about it before I realized im not in the illuminati yet.
We're going to need to see your best cat pics before we can just let you in. Gotta filter the riff raff.
Said all along he wasn't coming to Michigan! I won't be butt hurt! But non the less sucks!
Support that with evidence.
Johnny or Jimmy could turn this clunker into a Bentley in a heartbeat.
Develop talent like that douche Dantonio does and who cares about high profile recruits. We have hoped Hoke would use these big name boys to turn Michigan into something it hasn't been in almost twenty years. If he can coach kids up, all will be fine. The small pool of evidence if full of shitballs and cat urine, unfortunately.
I wrote this one off a long time ago. We're not landing McDowell.
That ship has sailed a long time ago, so not a huge deal.
That said, anonymous postings on other message boards doesn't give me a great sense either. Hoke has done a good enough job recruiting that I'm not bothered if he misses out on a kid who never seemed inclined to sign at UM.
And as I've posted before, why are we shocked a .500 coach finishes around .500 again???
Treated him as a second class recruit while everyone drooled over Hand who never really considered us...serves us right
that was my thought as well. did we slack in his recruitment because he was an instate kid
I think referencing OSU as "Ohio" is barely acceptable but now "Staee" for MSU, that's ridiculous. In terms of McDowell, adios....next!
Just a bit before your start date. Vandalism major from EL, apparently.
Everyone start tweeting pics of hot FSU coeds to Malik.
Could see why he might be interested.
Tallahassee is flooded with girls like this. It's mind-boggling.
If we don't end up with Damien Harris, George Campbell, Da'Shawn Hand OR Malik McDowell, that will be a HUGE fail on behalf of this staff.
Until we get some F-ING LIFE in this program it isn't going to change.
This staff will be able to recruit all the rich and/or catholic school kids they want. They're never going to have trouble with those guys. But if we're looking to get city kids, we need some modernation, innovation, youth, and excitement on this staff.
It can even be a position coach. But gone are the days were Fred Jackson is "in touch" with anything. It's time to go. Same for Borges and Ferrigno.
Get some guys who can coach AND are in touch with today's generation. Mix them in with your Hoke, Mattison's, etc. Diversity isn't just in race.
you hit he nail on the head. this why losing Montgomery was huge because he was a good coach and could recruit.
he decommits in less then 1 week.
He Gone. Next.
If we've learned anything the last 2-3 years is ratings matter very little. With as many problems as we have with this coaching staff, my days of sweating individual recruits are over.
It would be great if he chose Michigan, but if not so be it. I love to get the top in-state recruits, but you can't always get all of them.
Mods- why hasn't this been deleted yet?? No premium sites are reporting this, and in fact Sam Webb is still extremely confident we get him
Michigan is an absolute dumpster fire.
Now maybe the mindless doom posts will stop and those people will go back to their hole.
I'm afraid this ship has sailed, perhaps we move on now.
Michigan is a laughingstock now, and top recruits don't go to laughingstock programs. Unless/until this staff shows that it can compete at the highest level, develop talent, and stop being a laughingstock, it will continue the recent trend of whiffing on top talent. Then Michigan will have to start developing 3 star and below talent like MSU, and I have zero faith they can do that.
Don't be shocked when Jabrill Peppers decommits.
Top recruits don't go to laughingstock programs? Several of them went to Ole Miss last year.
We are far from laughingstock. The only people laughing are Tsio, and Sparty because they've got the upper hand for now.
Ole Miss isn't a laughingstock. It's mediocre. There's a big difference.
As for Michigan, it's not about the games they lost- and some they won- it's how they did it which caused Michigan to become a laughingstock this year.
Last second miracle finishes against Akron and Uconn are a joke.
Not belonging on the same field with MSU is a joke. MSU was clearly the better team, but they embarrassed Michigan. They literally should have not been on the field with MSU.
The Iowa and Nebraska games were a joke.
The bowl game was the biggest joke of all. Apparently no one wanted to be there and they humiliated themselves far more than KSU did.
If you have that many joke games in a year then you become a laughingstock. Which this program is currently. Only Hoke and/or Brandon can change that.
Option A: get pushed into action too early, play too many downs because your offense can't hold onto the ball, develop into a mid-round prospect on a bunch of 8-4 (or worse teams).
Option B: be part of a kickass defense, see the field early, often, and make an impact, end up a 1st round pick, and annually contend for National, Big Ten, and Rose Bowl championships.
Why in God's name would McDowell pick Michigan over MSU at this point? We are simply a pathetic program
It doesnt help Michigan's chances when a Michigan fan just tweeted to Damien Harris with the following:
@TheeCamyon: @Damien_D1Harris hey bruh, how bout you not be a George Campbell groupie and do what he does #goblue if you leave #fuckyou=
Harris replied to him making the guy look like an idiot. I couldnt see the tweet at first as I already had the guy (@TheeCamyon) blocked for some reason as he must have done something like this before.
Possibly a state fan? Probably a Michigan fan. Definitely an asshole.
it was definitely a Michigan fan...his timeline over last year was filled with lots of pro-Michigan things. Reality is this fan base has just as many clowns as others do.
You guys are unbeliavable. So irrational and self-hating.
It's really amazing.
I can't even believe some of the things I've read on here. Either people are as irrational as it seems or we've been infiltrated by about 50% trolls. I really hope it's the latter
Always go with your guy feeling!