Yeah, thats also the only reason I can think of for being that adverse to MSU but fine with OSU/FSU, all of them fall in roughly the same ball-park.
fair point that
Yeah, thats also the only reason I can think of for being that adverse to MSU but fine with OSU/FSU, all of them fall in roughly the same ball-park.
with Mom's involvement. too bad its so public. That's on them a bit, but I doubt they expected things to go so poorly. I feel bad for the family, but taking a deep breath and figuring it out will hopefully end well for Malik and his family.
"That's on them a bit..."
It seems to me that the fact that it's so public is entirely on the parents, as both his mom and dad seem much more willing to talk to the media than Malik, himself. I can't remember a single quote I've seen from him that wasn't a tweet along the lines of "My top X are..."
There's going to be interest and some media-driven drama when a kid as highly touted as Malik doesn't sign on signing day, but the intensity of the over-the-top drama is the parents' making.
but in there defense, this is their first go around. Wouldn't we all benefit from hindsight? I'm sure they could have never dreamed it would turn into a circus and maybe everytime they tried to clarify, it got worse. none of these parents have pr firms advising them, nor have they experienced the media being up their ass.
Hopefully they figure it out now and just get a good end result.
Michigan academics may be better than the other schools on this list, but realistically, you can get an excellent education at any of these schools. You largely get out what you put in.
I think many of us who attended Michigan look at our reasons for doing so and put too much weight in this category because of OUR values which may not be prioritized in the same way as a HS kid who sees his future in the NFL.
I hope I am wrong, but I can't see this kid ending up at Michigan and if he doesn't go to MSU, it will be OSU or FSU. I'd bet his mother has pushed Michigan so much that he will go out of state before he comes here just to spite her. Just my gut on this based on having a couple of kids who didn't always agree with me or their mother, to say nothing about the success on the field that OSU, FSU and MSU have had on the field recently.
my username out of respect for you. I'm thinking Terd Ferguson.
But if it's true that MSU players were talking about not having to go to class, that means a lot more than the school's academic rankings. Parents that care about their son's education should want to send them to programs that care about it too.
Even Harvard is a poor academic institution if you don't go to class.
Good for his parents not allowing him to go to that second-rate school in East Lansing. Frankly, I'd hope my kids get a good education and not party 24/7. I'd take MSU over that terrible place in Columbus, though. I'd love this guy at UM, but realize it's a small chance.
and ONLY that as a consideration, I'd prefer Columbus over EL.
NOW, outside of that...I'd need to de-loused daily.
So we're still rolling with this myth that athletes here get a better education than other Big Ten athletes?
Wait...what meme are we on this week?
I'll take a U of M education over quite a few places in the Big10, yes.
Right, because football players are getting the same education as regular undergrads...
...but given there are over 700 student athletes at the University of Michigan, this indicates that roughly 12% are pursuing a BGS.
While this number is significantly higher than the precentage of the general student body, I think it is important to note that 88% of student athletes are pursuing degrees similar to those of the other students.
Another disclaimer: BGS degrees should not be looked down upon and are not an indicator of course difficulty.
The fact of the matter is, they are not coming here to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. Whether you get your BGS from M, MSU, OSU, Iowa, wherever, doesn't matter.
So anyone who isn't studying to become a doctor, lawyer, or engineer at the University of Michigan is basically wasting their money? They could get the same education, resources, and experience at Wayne State or Oakland U?
I'm yanking my son out of classes today and enrolling him over at Eastern,.
Neither Wayne St. or Oakland is in the Big Ten.
And quite honestly, if you're going for a General Studies education, go to a community college. Wayyyy cheaper. And IMO, the jobs you're likely to go after are less likely to be concerned with where you got your education, and more concerned with the fact you have a degree.
The argument against general studies is incredibly uninformed. Just because Jim Harbaugh said its a bogus degree doesn't mean it's true. I know 3 people with BGS degrees, 2 are dentists and the other went to Harvard (yes that Harvard) law school. These people aren't working at mcdonalds.
The truth is a BGS requires 60 or more 300 or above level credits. That is more than I had with a biology degree and I doubt there are many people who think a biology degree from Michigan is a joke. If I could do it all over again I would probably get a BGS only because there is no foreign language requirement and my Spanish courses were a complete waste of time.
You do realize that a BGS is just a humanities degree without the language requirement, yes?
Arguing that the quality of classes don't matter for the BGS student but do for the english, or history, or anthro major sitting next to him/her is asinine. There is no significant difference between a BGS and any other humanities bachelor's degree, except, perhaps, when it comes to getting into a grad school.
First nice graph mgobaran... that is the entire athletic department, of which many 100s are people who will play non scholarship (volleyball, swimming, soccer, et al) and realize they have no pro career so I assume are taking a higher level degree, so I'd love to see how that chart breaks out just for football and basketball.
To SkeytoAA - this goes back to the "is a LSA degree harder than (insert whatever degree)" that is prevalent on campus. I will say that is an argument I have an opinion on having taken classes in LSA and in both engineering and the B-school (there is a difference), but overall even a History class at UM is more difficult than a class at Wayne MSU or Central. Some of my friends at those schools said it is not much different than HS which basically consisted of waking up at 6 AM, cramming for an hour and that was good enough for most classes not named AP Something. A lot of it is also curve - I took a physics class one summer at Wayne and got the same grades that would have gotten me a C at UM and it got me a A at Wayne St. Bell curves are cool like that.
That said you CAN go to MSU or wherever and take the harder work load, if you wish. And I am sure the same can be said for a LSA or General Studies program. There is a LOT more variability geting a LSA degree then getting an engineering or B-school degree where there is a much smaller menu of classes with specific requirements.
Personally I think most high level athletes (not all) in those 2 sports are taking easier courses and frankly I have no idea how the relatively small proportion who do not, do it at UM. The guys doing pre-med, or engineering, or B-school while putting so much of their hours into the football or basketball program, with the travel on top of of it is beyond my comprehension - takes a lot of dedication, intellect, and time management skill. When your body is exhausted at 7 PM it really takes a lot to mentally get going to study for 4 hrs.
Anyhow as all the athletes say in their recruiting process it is CLEARLY "about academics" (wink wink)
As a student who started in SNRE and ended up in Engineering, I found that Engineering was easier. Although, this has a lot to do with what my strengths are against what other students strengths are.
LSA has plenty of very smart students. All of my 8 roomates were in LSA my junior year, and I am pretty sure that most if not all, were smarter than me, even though I was successful in the engineering school.
I do believe you can get just as good of an education outside of UofM, but I do feel you need to work harder to achieve better grades at Michigan. Some of my friends at MSU had study habits that allowed them A's at State, that would have yielded much lower grades if they had attended Michigan. They still got a good education, but did not push themselves as much as they may have if they had attended Michigan.
It is all a fit thing though, if McDowell feels MSU is his best fit, then I hope that is where he ends up and does well 364 days of the year.
The fact that many athletes are in BGS does not mean it's a joke. A big reason why people declare a BGS concentration is so that they can graduate on time, because when you have a time conflict (like football practice for four hours a day), you may not be able to take some required classes for specific majors. That makes it hard to complete all your credits in time for the end of your eligibility - and after your eligiibility is expired, your scholarship does too,
Basically, most people in BGS are following a general concentration path, but because they couldn't fit a course or two into their schedule, they can't officially graduate under the specific program name and thus get a BGS degree. But they generally are still well-qualified to go on to grad school.
Kids don't have to go to Michigan for the same reasons... all the academic purests should really just grasp that concept. As someone mentioned the degree and other things you did while in college are all that remain after the rest has evaperated as relevant to employers (grades, what level of calculus, etc). There are many kids on the team that probably would not have gotten into Michigan if they weren't athletes - it was their God-given skill that got them in just like many of the academic kiddies got in because of their mental genetic foundation.
I dare say there are not too many pure students who would put in the time the football players do to have their school "payed" for. Someone said 4 hours a day... if their lucky. Take winter conditioning for example right now. Team is meeting for lifting/conditioning 5 days a week and most of these are at 6:00 a.m. Then they go to classes. The committment of these players to meet all of the team requirements is a significant part of each day whether it is a formal requirement or done of their own accord.
Ah yes, the old General Studies degree argument. How Spartan-esque of you.
GS is in the school of LS&A and requires 60 of your 120 credits to come from 300 level or higher classes IN LS&A. Are you trying to say that the majority of athletes don't want to take Organic Chemistry, Molecular Biology, Mandarin Chinese, or Linguistics? Well duh. They're football players. BUT, they were still accepted into the school of LS&A. If admissions was concerned about the students ability to "hang" in LS&A, they'd swing them over to.....the school of Phys Ed.
If you want to present an argument for a lame cirriculum, choose Sports Management & Communications from the school of Phys Ed.
Or Criiminal Justice at Michigan State.
I don't think it's just the education. If the athlete has enough foresight (and many times the athlete doesn't), it is also about networks. I know some of these athletes get jobs later in life simply because they were Michigan athletes. For myself, I know that having two Michigan degrees helped me with other alumni in opening doors. Just having the name on a diploma is not going to break open any barriers, but it does help nonetheless if you play the cards right.
And with respect to General Studies, I don't think that matters all that much. I was a history degree, and it's not like that made me better prepared for my current profession. If the athlete takes his future seriously, he or she will have opportunities later in life whether it is a general studies major or something you self-righteously deem more worthy.
points on a graph. Each and every one is different, unique, and individual. How pompous of you to lump them into one group to prove some asinine point.
Nope, totally a myth, and Cardale Jones can attest to that.
Buckeye fans are never going to live that one down.
MSU fans are never going to live down McDowell's mother's "Don't come here to play school" claims either.
the degree is all that matters. what classes you took or even how good your grades are diminish in importance drastically upon graduation, and continue to diminish until completely irrelevant after about a year. what helps open doors and increase salary is the prestige of having a U of M degree.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that people who choose any particular field of study are inferior. But the reality is that if you are a high-profile athlete in a major sport, your undergraduate experience probably isn't going to be significantly different regardless of which Big Ten school you choose. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary other than U.S. News rankings, I'd love to see it.
But the reality is that if you are a "normal" student, your undergraduate experience probably isn't going to be significantly different regardless of which Big Ten school you choose.
I agree with you except for the part where you know, he publicly committed to State on TV
Almost every quote in that story was about him visiting FSU or OSU wheras there was a snippet about UM. Cmon lets give it a rest; he knows everything there is to know about UM - has been on academic tours "9 or 10 times" as he said, etc. If he wanted to come to UM he'd be coming to UM. The whole "we want him to get out of the state" was very obviously a comment in reference to him wanting to go to MSU and his parent to UM...and once he was adament on MSU they preferred he at least go out of state. UM looks like #4 in this pecking order or #3 at best.
He can get on the MSU team by August via other means after he turns 18 with or without mom.
This isn't happening. My guess at this point: 55% MSU, 44% OSU, 0.9% FSU, 0.1% M.
Think of the chess match here..... visit fsu and osu... too far... settles on the wolverines.
Exactly. It's MSU or OSU at this point. FSU is too far, according to his dad.
"Handling this correctly" is the last thing that comes to mind when McDowell's recruitment comes up.
What's the day that he has to choose by?
Nevermind, I'm stupid. It's right in the article.
First day of classes, I imagine.
Sam Webb talked about McDowell yet again on today's recruiting roundup. He talked to the family over the weekend, and while he didn't mention the possible visits, he did say a few other things that aren't in the piece linked in the OP. Most importantly, he said that McDowell and his mother have reconciled, so whatever rift had opened up between them has been settled.
Sam also conveyed a couple other things from the family. Reports claiming that at an in-house visit Dantonio and McDowell's mom got into a verbal altercation are false. Also false are the rumors that McDowell's mom had thrown him out of the house.
"Reports claiming that at an in-house visit Dantonio and McDowell's mom got into a verbal altercation are false. Also false are the rumors that McDowell's mom had thrown him out of the house."
Well dang, his mom tossing Dantonio out of the house was the only pleasing thing I read from this whole crazy story. It was all the mom had going for her in my opinion, and even that is lost now.
Hopefully they indeed work this whole thing out together, and Malik ends up happy with his end decision.
..because regardless, I can't seem him at UM.
They seem to be handling this correctly.
Did you really just type that?
If Marshall's account that McDowell told him he was picking Michigan on the morning of his announcement is true, you have to wonder what was going through the kid's head. Clearly, Michigan had no chance. If they were a close runner up and he changed his mind sometime that morning, you'd think he and his parents would've compromised and selected Michigan by now. It seems Michigan was completely out of the running and has been for some time. Guess we should just chalk it up to kids being kids.
Kid grew up a Michigan fan, almost committed twice, his parents want him to go there and then he tells a teammate he is going to UM but everything else seems like his choice is anywhere but Michigan. This is just the oddest recruitment.
Watching his body language on signing day... it sounds to me that he doesnt want to study, and take it easy... might be afraid of the perceived schoolwork... thats the only thing I can think of if he were truly a lifelong Michigan fan yet chooses msu to party... someone got in his ear about 'comfort'..... to me, that comfort got old after two or three parties..then its the same low-wattage thing there at msu.