CRex

February 4th, 2011 at 1:34 PM ^

The Process is a lie and I have a hard time being buying any other belief.  Admittedly I base it solely on those early Jan pressers that DB gave.  The man was totally out of character, no smooth pimp hand and well planned corporate announcements.  He had wild eyes, looked like he was only awake due to the fact he was injecting himself directly with expresso and was snippy and bitchy to reporters.  

I didn't see a process, I saw "Harbaugh took the 49ers job and Les isn't returning my calls, aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh.........".

He had all of December to find a primary target* and if Hoke really was that target he could have announced Hoke 5 minutes after firing RR.  Actually more like 48 hours because you don't want it to seem like you were preparing to fire RR prior to 1 Jan (due to buyout issues), but he could have had Hoke with 48 hours and a pseudo coaching search.  No need for a week of twisting in the wind.   

*Even if his mind wasn't made up to fire RR, he should have accepted that there was a nonzero chance he'd fire RR post bowl and begun some at least low level searching and reflection on candidates.  

mejunglechop

February 4th, 2011 at 2:09 PM ^

This class is kind of ass. We didn't fill some serious needs and over half our class is mid/low three stars according to Rivals. That's not a knock on Hoke or Rodriguez, they did their best considering the circumstances.

Shaqsquatch

February 4th, 2011 at 3:09 PM ^

Reading the comments on that article makes me greatly appreciate our community here.

The number of people regurgitating the "Michigan Man", "spread doesn't work in the Big Ten", and "didn't understand the rivalry" meme made me sick.

Beauford Bixel

February 4th, 2011 at 3:14 PM ^

A search for the term "Michigan Man" in the post and comments shows about 5 results, 3 of which are found in a comment specifically denouncing the need for a "Michigan Man" as coach.

A search for "Understand the rivalry" and "Understands the Rivalry" nets zero results.

A search for "Spread Doesn't Work" nets one result, which is immediately shot down by numerous posters.

 

Shaqsquatch

February 4th, 2011 at 3:19 PM ^

The article itself talks about him not understanding the rivalry.

There is more than one instance of someone saying the spread doesn't work in the big ten, with the asinine argument of "how many spread teams have one big ten championships?" as well as saying that the "spread can work in weaker conferences". Apparently the SEC and Pac 10 are weaker conferences, and Auburn and Oregon only went undefeated to the championship because of their conference.

And there are references to people being former players, etc. continuing the Michigan Man meme.

Just because people didn't use the exact phrases you Ctrl+f'd for doesn't mean that they're not in the threads.

Maybe next time read the comments before trying to rebuke my point?

Beauford Bixel

February 4th, 2011 at 3:31 PM ^

I don't see a single instance of anybody saying that he "Didn't Understand the Rivalry."  Not in the post, not in the comments.  The closest it gets is the fact that Michigan was 0-6 against MSU and OSU. 

Also, the one discussion about the spread not working in this conference has one dude who makes that assertion, and 5 other guys refuting it.

The large syntax around the "being former players" is that they understand college football - not that they're "Michigan Men." 

I'm guessing that we're more on the same side of the fence than maybe you think - I'm not defending Dave's post.  I will defend the readers and commenters as not being as dumb as you make them out to be - you're grossly over-generalizing a few points that are either out of context, or immeditely refuted by a number of people. 

Shaqsquatch

February 4th, 2011 at 3:39 PM ^


0-6 against Michigan's biggest rivals in games that were less competitive each year Michigan played them.

Conveniently ignoring Notre Dame, the fact that these teams were better than us on paper each year we faced them, and continuing the "doesn't understand the rivalry" meme...

jmblue

February 4th, 2011 at 3:52 PM ^

What exactly is wrong with pointing out a fact - that RR went 0-6 against those teams?  I don't think anyone expected, back in December 2007, that we'd be 0-fer against those two.  

It seems to me that you are still irrationally attached to a fired coach.

CRex

February 4th, 2011 at 4:35 PM ^

Notre Dame isn't really a rivalry that has a lot of cachet anymore IMHO.  I realize they recruit nationally and field a decent team every three or four years but really we should be beating them the majority of the time and wins over "The Schematic Advantage" and "Pirate Crist" don't exactly count for a lot when you're taking B10 ass kickings.  

Heck I'd trade a win over the Domers for a win over any B10 program out there.  

jmblue

February 5th, 2011 at 12:58 AM ^

The big limitation to the ND rivalry is that it isn't a conference game and accordingly, it doesn't end up affecting our season that much.  If they were in the Big Ten, it'd be considerably bigger.  

Shaqsquatch

February 4th, 2011 at 3:32 PM ^

I was going to make a comment about how he is completely ignoring the many top recruits we lost because of the way the switch was handled (Kris Frost, Jake Fisher, Dallas Crawford, Wayne Lyons, etc.), and that, at least for me, but I'm assuming the majority of us who still regret how DB handled the situation, the issue wasn't the firing of RR or the hiring of Hoke (in fact, with the Mattison addition, I'm pretty optimistic for this team), but the fact that, if DB insisted Hoke was his first choice, despite waiting two weeks to make the hire. That either means one of two things: Brandon himself is an idiot for waiting two weeks and losing recruits to hire someone that would've jumped from day one, or Brandon thinks we're idiots for buying his BS that Hoke was the first choice from the start.

After seeing how blissfully ignorant that community was though I decided my argument would fall on deaf ears.

Shaqsquatch

February 4th, 2011 at 3:44 PM ^

Fair enough, though from what I'm seeing by that post, the comments I complained about above, and the vast majority of the comments lauding him for a great post, I get the feeling logical members of that community are few and far between.

Cope

February 4th, 2011 at 4:50 PM ^

but what you're talking about is reason. Logic is a series of irrefutable conclusions starting from, presumably, correct assumptions.

There are major holes in your reasoning. Just because Hoke may have been DB's first choice IF he fired RR, that doesn't mean he necessarily should have before the bowl. I'm beginning to agree that this coaching decision was way more important than a few recruits. Hoke pulled in some different recruits that prove this: oodles of linebackers (a good add) and at least a higher percentage of defensive players, which we needed.

As for the coaching decision, DB wanted to get it right. I'll agree it was a very CEO-like way to do it. He waited for all the information to be in. But it was also a very intelligent and reasonable way to do it, and the ramifications would affect MI football for years to come.

Also, think of it this way: The reality is if DB's man had been Harbaugh, people would've thought it perfectly natural to accept that DB had a strong inclination that JH would come, but also that he was going to explore the necessary options at the time of a hire, and praised him. It's that it was Hoke that people assume DB "had made up his mind and is a moron" or DB "had no other options," just because Hoke wasn't their choice. And that isn't a reasonable assumption.

The hole in that reasoning is, DB prob is just that thorough. And at the end of the day he got a guy he wanted.

wlubd

February 4th, 2011 at 3:48 PM ^

I feel it's a lot easier to follow the flow of comments here. More clearly marked, less clutter at the bottom of each post, and less people writing epic novels as responses so you don't get all of this white space to the left of a reply making it impossible to see exactly who they're replying to.

Just my opinion. I'm sure if I followed it more I'd get used to it but that would involve me actually enjoying the content at SBN which I generally don't...

jmblue

February 4th, 2011 at 3:48 PM ^

This headline is over-the-top.  They didn't "call out" Brian.  They just disagreed.  That's okay.  People do not have to agree on anything.  Brian, believe it or not, gets things wrong sometimes (like practically guaranteeing that Denard would transfer).  This community suffers when people are afraid to disagree and just start parroting everything Brian says.  It makes things pretty boring. 

Whether or not "the Process" was sound, the bottom line is that the most nightmarish recruiting outcome did not occur and we salvaged the class reasonably well.  

Bosch

February 4th, 2011 at 5:26 PM ^

Sure, "the most nightmarish outcome" would have been losing all of our recruits.  This was also never a possibility. 

A more realistic worst case scenerio was to lose half of our most coveted recruits and then scramble to replace them with some kids who were of good quality, but not as highly rated, and that's exactly what happened.  Aside from Barnett, there really weren't any surprises.

I'm certainly excited to see what our guys can do for us, but losing Hart, Zettel, Frost, and Crawford hurts.


 

 

Bosch

February 5th, 2011 at 9:36 AM ^

You mean to say that with 100's of regular vistors on this site, that there were some that envisioned scenerios that were unrealistic?  How could that be?  :/

The worst case didn't quite happen, but we weren't far off.  We lost some of our highest rated talent and replaced them with mid level kids.  A few bad seasons isn't going to tarnish the Michigan brand to the point where we can't steal recruits from Minnesota, Purdue, and Vanderbilt or win recruiting battles with the likes of Arizona and Pittsburgh at the last minute.

Our situation isn't dire, but it was never going to be dire. 

And don't interpret this as running down the kids we got.  I will support them as much as I would have supported the class if it was the 20 highest rated kids in the country.  But let's not pretend that this isn't one of the least heralded recruiting classes in recent history.

 

 

 

 

Blue Bill

February 4th, 2011 at 3:55 PM ^

The M&B column is flawed in several ways, but I think he makes some good points.

The way I see it is, criticisms of "The Process" are two-fold:

1) DB knew he was going to fire RR at the end of the Big Ten season but he waited until after the bowl game for reasons unknown.  Therefore, he is clearly an idiot who doesn't understand football or college athletics or basic arithmetic.

2) Either (a) DB knew from the outset that he wanted Hoke without having ever met him, and "The Process" was just a sham meant to appease the fan base; or (b) DB is so incompetent that he just went with a guy whom he knew would take the job, even though said guy has never seen a football before and doesn't know how to coach.

 

Regarding #1: Perhaps I'm "misremembering" things here, but wasn't Brian still on board-- though wavering-- with Rodriguez getting another year after the OSU game, but after the bowl game he essentially wrote that keeping Rodriguez could no longer be justified?  Is it so hard to believe DB felt the same way?  Some will say that it should have been obvious that RR needed to go after the OSU game.  That's a fair opinion, but I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to have felt otherwise.  Things weren't where they needed to be, obviously, but there had been some positives and I'm sure at that point DB would have preferred to ride it out with RR rather than put the program through another coaching transition if at all possible.  That possiblity pretty much desolved by mid-way through the third quarter of the Gator Bowl.

Regarding #2a: It's possible, I suppose, but I don't think it's plausible.  If Brandon's plan was to broom RR and bring in Hoke from the beginning, he could have easily done so after the OSU game (as many say he should have); the fact that he didn't do this, give that it would have been preferable to what actually happened, belies the assumption that this was his intent.  If you accept that DB was willing to stick it out with RR until the Gator Bowl debacle, but you assume that immediately thereafter he knew Hoke was his one and only, then what you are assuming is that DB had his heart absolutely set on a mid-level head coach with a mediocre record without having ever met him, even at the exclusion (at that time) of Jim Harbaugh.  Again, I don't think that's plausible.  Here you may object that DB himself was told all sorts of glowing things about Hoke by others before he had actually spoken with him; true, but isn't that part of "The Process?"  And if he settled on Hoke in large part because of what his peers said about him, doesn't that belie the charge that "The Process" was a sham?

Regarding #2b: This is probably the most common charge brought against Dave Brandon: he's a moron who couldn't hire a good coach so he hired a crappy one.  But this argument relies on the premise that Hoke is not a good coach, or at least not as good as some other coaches Brandon could have gotten.  There are reasonable arguments to be made here-- perhaps Hoke will fail miserably here, or perhaps he will have marginal success where someone else could have been the next Fielding Yost-- but keep in mind that this, in itself, is not an indictment of "The Process;" it is a criticism of the final outcome.

And I think that's pretty much where most DB critics are at; they don't like the fact that Platonic-Form-of-Football-Coach is not at the helm of their Michigan Wolverines following three disastrous seasons, and someone must be held accountable.  In this, the buck stops with Dave Brandon.  Similarly, Brian made has made it clear for the past three years that he doesn't think Brady Hoke has any business being discussed as a serious candidate for the Michigan job, let alone being the guy they hire.  If we accept that Hoke was not even close to the best choice of all feasible choices, and yet we are faced with the reality that Brady Hoke has been chosen, then we must find some explanation-- hence we get all of these critical theories about how flawed "The Process" was and how incompetent Dave Brandon is.  As much as I love Brian Cook and mgoblog (and seriously, I think Brian is a breath of fresh air in the sports media world, and I am a total mgoaddict), I find the rigidity in his thinking here rather uncharacteristic: Never is there any doubt that he has been 100% dead-on bullseye right in his evaluation of Brady Hoke as a football coach.  Neither is there doubt that the other options he has considered superior on the basis of record and age alone either weren't as feasibly hired as he assumed or simply weren't actually superior when evaluating coaches on a Gestalt basis using several varied criteria.  In other words, Brian assumes he knows more about coaches he has never met, nor whose personal and professional references he has never heard, than a man who has met them and heard those references, or Brian assumes he knows more about what it takes to be a successful head coach than Dave Brandon does.  Heck, maybe he does know more about what it takes to be a successful head coach than DB does, but I think to assume that DB is an incompetent boob at this point is more than a little unfair, and to continue to take petty jabs at him and at Hoke like this is rather immature.  As flawed as the M&B column was, I think that's where it hit the nail on the head-- Stop with the sniping and the moaning already and move on.

 

mackbru

February 4th, 2011 at 4:23 PM ^

I think the OP needs to chill. MBrew just took a mild, half-serious poke at Brian. In a way, it's a compliment. And it's certainly nothing to get upset about. 

Desmonlon Edwoodson

February 4th, 2011 at 5:07 PM ^

Brian is trying very very hard to rationalize his own poor treatment of David Brandon and Brady Hoke.  That is the agenda that has saturated the blog in the past few weeks.  If Brian were to be forced to admit that "the process" might not have totally destroyed Michigan football, that the recruiting class might have turned out to be "pretty ok", and the Brady Hoke hire might not have been the worst idea in the history of man, then he has got to admit to himself that he has been kind of a dick, and maybe just maybe these guys didn't deserve it.  Nobody wants to admit something like that to themselves.  It's human nature to hate those that you have wronged.  That's reducing cognitive dissonance in a nutshell.  Here's hoping Brian can figure this out and move on.

HAIL 2 VICTORS

February 5th, 2011 at 8:49 AM ^

Both sides have represented well in this thread and makes a good read.  The only thing missing is a response from Brian that I believe from the content so far is deserving of his attention.  

Come on Brian this deserves comment.