los barcos

December 14th, 2013 at 9:03 PM ^

Call me crazy, but I think who ever Texas hires will NOT be a big time hire (ie not Meyer, harbaugh, Saban, etc). College football is a crazy world these days - not only with inflated coaching salaries but teams like Baylor, Michigan state, Ucf, Louisville, etc can play in bcs bowl games - there's more parity than ever meaning people can win at "smaller" programs with out the additionally stress. And when coaches like sumlin are getting five million a year for winning zero conference titles or bcs games, why would a coach leave to a big time program? I mean michigan found this out the hard way and I think Texas will too. Whoever they get I bet the collective reaction will be "that guy?!"

Joined: 03/27/2009

MGoPoints: 10787

MGoStrength

December 14th, 2013 at 10:10 PM ^

We have a playoff system coming.  I'd bet it expands from 4 teams to 8 or more relativly soon. The 5 power conferences are already looking to make changes to the current NCAA setup/rules.  I see the rich getting richer and the little guys moving further back.  Now, Louisville, Baylor, and MSU are all in these conference so they will have a horse in the race. But, long term I don't think they can compete with the Michigan's, Texas', and Florida's of the world.  These school's may be down relative to their expectations (albeit far from bad teams for the most part), but with the resources they have, the way they recruit, the fan base support they have it's hard to imagine they won't reclaim their spot sooner rather than later.

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 20002

los barcos

December 14th, 2013 at 10:20 PM ^

We will agree to disagree - I just don't see it going back to the so called "big boys" and the rest of them. Texas tech, Baylor, Texas A&m, and tcu have all had better seasons than Texas in the last five years - and that's just in Texas alone. The landscape is changing, and if I'm an up and coming coach what's the incentive to leave a comfortable situation when I am making a boat load of money and winning? Anyways I guess we all will wait and see but I think the hiring will be underwhelming and Texas may strike out on their top choices.

Joined: 03/27/2009

MGoPoints: 10787

MGoStrength

December 14th, 2013 at 10:48 PM ^

What's the common denomenator with all those teams (Baylor, TCU, and TA&M)?  They all have/had great QBs.  When UT had Applewhite, Simms, Colt McCoy and Young they were great.  They have struggled because Gilbert, Ash, etc. never really developed.  Baylor had RG3, TCU had Dalton, and TA&M obviously has Manziel.  But, in all fairness none of those QBs were highly rated recruits coming out of high school, so all those schools lucked into those QBs to some degree and capitalized on their success by recruiting after they had success.  If you insert a good QB into Texas the past few years I'm sure they'd be really good too.  

The hard part for Texas is that anything other than a top national coach with a proven track record will be considered a failure.  Unless you get a Saban, Meyer, Miles, etc. the fan base won't be happy.  I wonder if Muschamp is kicking himself now. 

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 20002

goblue1213

December 15th, 2013 at 9:56 AM ^

Is that high level QBs don't want to be playing together. Most want the chance to have "their" team. There don't seem to be many teams that are getting 2 4-star QBs in a class. QBs can get drafted high from mid-level schools, so they don't have to go to one of the top-25 schools to have a shot of playing on Sundays. USC early 2000s is the last school I remember running out stud QBs year after year. That's just my uneducated take on it.

Joined: 01/09/2011

MGoPoints: 649

denardogasm

December 14th, 2013 at 9:12 PM ^

If I were hiring a head coach I'd only want Dantonio if he came with Narduzzi. I think Dantonio would struggle a lot more at a program where he couldn't at the underdog in the weeds card. He's never proven himself as a recruiter of big time kids.

Joined: 09/11/2011

MGoPoints: 10688

Victor Valiant

December 14th, 2013 at 9:29 PM ^

There is no proof he is a top coach. He's achieved middling records with decimated teams, but that just proves exactly what it sounds like. I don't get the BoB love to be honest. I know, i know, he is coaching a team in turmoil, blah blah blah. Can he win big? We have no idea.

Joined: 11/23/2013

MGoPoints: 4491

Leonhall

December 15th, 2013 at 7:41 AM ^

Experience at both levels, he's recruited pretty damn well considering psu's situation. Frankly, I think they have over achieved the last two years even considering their record. That being said, I understand what you are saying, even though Texas can offer anyone any amount of money, I feel like this search is heading in the same direction as one of ours. It seems like this program is at about the same spot we were up in Lloyd's retirement, although, Texas has a lot more talent waiting in the wings supposedly.

Joined: 06/14/2012

MGoPoints: 16430

MGoGrendel

December 14th, 2013 at 9:29 PM ^

announcement, said the decision to stay or go was fully Mack's. Interesting. If true, it did allow this first class guy to go out on his terms.

Most coaches at one program start to believe they are above the program/school. Not Mack.

Joined: 01/21/2013

MGoPoints: 70213

kat kid

December 14th, 2013 at 9:29 PM ^

Leon, Texas is lucky you are not in charge.  As it stands, that would be a desparate call after about 25 no's and it would be about 2 seconds long before Bill got some suntan lotion.  

Joined: 12/14/2013

MGoPoints: -46

kat kid

December 14th, 2013 at 9:31 PM ^

 

I am a K-State fan.  Because I cannot start topics, I am forced to discuss navel gazing Michigan topics for a bit before I can blow your minds with my really awesome original posts.

 

" Heaven forbid we have a down season or two. Ignore whether Hoke and his staff develop young men, keep a clean program, are good for the school and graduate their players. It's all about how many wins this year or in two years.

What should we expect from our program? Teams that show character and in which we can take pride."

"Criticising coaches is fine, talking openly about forcing out a coach if they don't hit your personal W/L threshold is counterproductive."

Do these guys really think there is some giant magic karmic up/down vote Michigan bucket that is being tainted by someone, somewhere on the internet talking about multi-millionaire Brady Hoke's job performance?  Good grief, the Big House isn't going to grow legs and terrorize Ann Arbor like in Ghostbusters.  I hope all the young people that actually earned their way in to Michigan laugh at these class ring cheese dicks.  You should demand results.  

An old money attitude in a new money world will doom you to the faint praise of being "true Michigan men" and "playing it the right way" and being proud of a mediocre team in a mediocre Big Ten.  If the achievements of Fielding Yost still keep you warm in 2013, more power to you.

gobluehtown, compiled some nice stats, but I wanted to look at 3 different questions:

1) conference record-  are you competitive in the Big Ten?

2) conference titles-  are you the best in the Big Ten?

3) BCS bowls-  are you competitive among the nation's elite?

To provide some similar context I picked out 3 other blue blood programs that have had similar profiles over that span of time:

Michigan: Spilt National Title and on (1997-2013) 17 seasons
Nebraska: “ (1997-2013) 17 seasons
Texas:  Mack Brown era (1998-2013) 16 seasons
Notre Dame: post-Lou Holtz (1997-2013) 17 seasons

 

 

Conference Record:

Texas 98-33
Michigan 92-44
Nebraska 90-46
Notre Dame N/A

Conference Championships:

Michigan 5 (Lloyd Carr 5)
Texas  2 (Mack Brown 2)
Nebraska 2 (Osborne 1, Solich 1)
Notre Dame N/A


BCS Bowls:
Michigan 3-3 (1 MNC) (Hoke 1, Carr 5 (1))
Texas 3-1 (1 MNC) (Brown 4 (1),)
Nebraska 2-1 (1 MNC) (Solich 2, Osborne 1 (1))
Notre Dame 0-4 (Kelly 1, Weis 2, Davie 1)

Other notes:
The most recent MNC appearance is Notre Dame.
The most recent MNC win is Texas.
Neither Michigan nor Nebraska have a conference title under their current coach.

I think the divisional/title game format has allowed Michigan to back in to a BCS appearance (and that will happen again), but it will suppress your conference titles.  For example, Texas has 6 additional conference wins in one less year, but only two titles and 2 fewer BCS appearances.  The good old days of the lazy Susan Big Ten schedule never making its way to a true round Robin are gone.  The Big 12 is a crap shoot and very competitive because of the new format, and the division/title format certainly resulted in a number of upsets as well.

Conclusion:

Mack Brown just “retired” tonight after achieving a hell of a lot.  It will be interesting to see who Texas hires and how that all shakes out.  Nebraska and Michigan since 1997 have not been the same.  While Nebraska owned the early 90’s, Michigan has clearly been better since, but has not been a real threat for a National Title.

Maybe that is not what you want to chase, but it should be.  If you think Brady Hoke is the guy to do that you should keep him.  But history says it should start winning 10+ games soon if that is ever going to happen.  Hell, Bill Snyder has won 11 games 8 different times and did it in 6 of 7 years during his best stretch.  That only got us 3 BCS bowls, so be thankful that isn’t your problem.  I don’t understand the attacks on someone actually putting together a case that Brady Hoke’s seat should be getting warm and if you look at a group of your peers, things can go off the rails pretty easily with a couple bad hires strung together.  Of course it is easier to recover from, but if you are indecisive you lose in the mean time.

When Michigan State has the better program, you should probably make a move.

Joined: 12/14/2013

MGoPoints: -46

kat kid

December 14th, 2013 at 10:02 PM ^

If I could start a topic I'd post a breakdown of the game, but since I have to post in topics I thought I would try to keep it somewhat on topic.  I spent a bit of time compiling some data to make a case.  I think voting systems and restrictions on new posters is asinine, but given the format it seems absurd that I'd rack up down votes for what I posted.

Joined: 12/14/2013

MGoPoints: -46

CompleteLunacy

December 15th, 2013 at 1:08 PM ^

But starting off your first ever post with talking about being "forced to discuss navel gazing Michigan topics"  on a freaking MICHIGAN BLOG because oh noes, you can't make your own threads. You're just asking for it. If you aren't a troll, perhaps you shouldn't disrespect an entire forum in your first post. Just a thought.

I'm glad you spent time on that data. Maybe you should have spent more time being less of a dick in your first post.

Joined: 11/13/2010

MGoPoints: 12910

kat kid

December 14th, 2013 at 10:25 PM ^

I think you tl;dr that one too:

"Don't be redundant. Don't use stupid nicknames like O$U. Spell things correctly. Don't post useless replies like "I agree" and whatnot."

NOPE.

 

ONTOPIC

  • Anything Michigan sports related
  • Anything related to other Big Ten teams or upcoming opponents

YEP

Saying stupid and/or false things about Michigan in order to get Michigan fans upset is a tried and true way to phish for clicks. Let's not feed the trolls.

NOPE

 

 

Joined: 12/14/2013

MGoPoints: -46

justingoblue

December 14th, 2013 at 10:55 PM ^

You would be better served looking to engage in some friendly back and forth about the bowl game in the comments before making the jump to long posts about M's football program in broad strokes.

We have respected members from OSU, MSU (RIP WatersDemos :/ ) and ND. I'm sure a KSU fan looking to talk about the bowl game matchup would be well received if you know what you're talking about and are a reasonable person.

Joined: 11/16/2010

MGoPoints: 29741