M Soccer question (for those so inclined)
I didn't want to be controversial with the title but what the heck is going on with the soccer program? I know that they've been right around .500 each of Chaka Daley's three seasons which is, you know, middling. That said, the highlight of Daley's tenure was bringing in the #2 overall recruiting class a year ago. Now I hear that two of the gems of that class, forwards Asingha Selemani (who made the Big Ten all-freshman team) and Nate Kohl have transferred elsewhere (UCSB and Ohio State respectively).
Anybody up for explaining what's going on over there? I know success can be had in the midwest and even in the Big Ten and even in Michigan (State went to the final 8 I believe). I'd be interested in any insight.
EDIT: After I wrote this I found this article about that recruiting class: http://www.michigandaily.com/sports/men%E2%80%99s-soccer-welcomes-no-2-…;
Of the seven guys in that class, four are no longer on the roster. Aside from seeing Kohl and Selemani transfer I don't see Jake Duska or Hans Lee on the official roster any more. http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-soccer/mtt/mich-m-soccer-mtt.html . I also saw that they held open tryouts for the general student body in late February. Is that because of all the kids leaving?
myself. Love soccer, and would be grateful for a chance to get behind Michigan's teams. I know the women were in the tourney the last few years. . .
I regret not being able to get to more games and don't want to come off as any kind of expert but
1) The results haven't been that good and we've been losing to MAC teams
2) The one high point (last year's recruiting class) has seen 4 of the 7 kids gone after one semester
3) Here are the current 2015 high school rankings. We've got one top 15 player but nothing else in the Top 150 http://www.collegesoccernews.com/index.php/recuiting/752-2015-high-scho… > MSU and OSU have 3 each and two of Ohio's three are top 50.
1) had a good but not elite coach in Steve Burns (who shepherded the team from club to varsity) who was fired a year or so removed from the final four after a bad year even though he lost quite a few guys early to the pros. This was part of Brandon's 'corporate' philosophy of culling the bottom performers.
2) instead of having a slam dunk hire ready the AD left the position vacant for a month or so and ended up hiring Chaka who had essentially the same career record as Burns. Chaka was paid more.
3) Chaka's on-field success at Michigan is about the same as his predecessor.
I really hope they can turn it around. I didn't know they had lost a lot of guys from that hyped class. As with all things, I blame Dave Brandon.
Thank you. I always "enjoy" learning another reason to dislike Brandon.
Rank speculation: it wouldn't surprise me if Brandon thought he could lure Akron's very hot coach, Caleb Porter, when he fired Burns. But yet again, no real back up plan.
Burns built this club from a club team and had very good success in the years just prior to his unceremonious firing.
It is sad that EMU and MSU can have superior teams with few of the recruiting advantages UM has including a beautiful new stadium. We have the Wolves and HAwks righ in our backyard along with some other nationally ranked u18 teams with elite talent. There is no excuse not to be better.
Chake's lack of real success is a head scratch for sure.
And if your going to fire the guy who sorta built the program, at least have a slam dunk hire ready to go. But again, let's hope they turn the corner this year.
Barnes-Arico is no world beater also. The dude never made a single excellent hire in his entire tenure at Michigan.
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Afterall he was the USWNT coach before the whole Hope Solo beching fiasco. The guy is well connected and recruits well.
I have played soccer with Steve Burns who gave his soul for the program. He wont publically bad mouth Brandon but it caught him totally by surprise and you can tell it still hurts him.
Sigh I had no idea about how Burns was let go. I owe that man a lot, and it's tough to see how the program has kind of stumbled. I thought Daley was a great hire at the time, but had no idea how Burns was let go. I also think you guys are overselling how poorly Daley has done.
However, it's important to note how fucking insane mens college soccer is. The fact that you only get 9.9 scholarships per team means parody rules way more than other sports. Very few kids get full scholarships. Add in the absolutely fucking stupid substitution rules and you get a crappy ass product. There's going to be a lot of variance.
College soccer is going to fall into even further irrelevancy if things don't change so that they allow for the pseudo-minor leagues that other sports provide. If the NCAA doesn't make moves to allow for more scholarships and not allow re-entry substitutions that allow for higher quailty soccer, the MLS will further develop their youth academies to the point where college soccer is pointless.
March 10th, 2015 at 10:03 PM ^
Why the hell doesn't the NCAA implement FIFA rules? This is the most dumbfounding thing ever. You can call timeout? In soccer?
March 10th, 2015 at 10:18 PM ^
March 10th, 2015 at 11:28 PM ^
European teams simply have full pro youth academies. You can get schooling, but you don't play soccer at a top youth level for any university. There are a lot of leagues/teams out there, but this is in reference to the major ones.
These kids also can get paid and whatnot.
I'm not an ultra but I have a bit of familiarity with Ahinga's recruitment. He was committed to UCSB for quite awhile, including during his time in residency with the national program. I think he was originally committed to State before switching to UCSB. He then switched his commitment pretty late in the process to Michigan where he played in every game this past season.
I don't know the reason for the transfer to UCSB, but it seems to me like Ahinga was conflicted about where he wanted to go to school and ultimately the combination of playing time, strength of the team, and possibly more scholarship money pushed him back to UCSB. I would also guess that his relationships with the respective coaching staffs played into the decision. It's certainly frustrating to lose him though.
was that the Saad brothers were effectively rentals. Two decent kids for the most part that hardly bothered to even pretend that they were in school, especially Soony.
I don't think Chaka is hitting the state clubs very hard, which is ignorent as the state of Michigan routinely has a third or more of the the regional pool players at ODP, even with the Acadamy kids sitting it out. There are now four real tough clubs from top to bottom in the state of Michigan and the next tier can be very tough also depending on the year. Nova's U-17 team which bouncess between 5 and 12 in the state rankins forever, went to Indiana last fall for a showcase and pounded three top ten Indiana club teams, two in their top 5. They won by a cumulative 10/11 to 2/3 one of those goals given up was an own goal.
Burns' camp was never great, Chaka's isn't notably better which is a shame as both Indiana and Notre Dame run big time camps that are full of Michigan club kids. We have never seen him or even caught a whiff of him at the Spring tournaments, even at the Diamond or Fve Star divisions, we do see and hear about the MAC guys. Clearly he's pulling some of the national kids, but if they are playing .500 soccer and then not sticking, what's the point?
Wrong guy.
March 11th, 2015 at 12:14 PM ^
who those top 4 clubs are you reference here in Michigan?
I have two boys (8 & 5) and have been coaching their youth teams to date up here in northern michigan, but curious what the better squads are around the state at the older age groups; thanks in advance
I don't know how accurate this is state to state it is fairly accurate out here for my twin boys U12 age group... not everything is included out here at least. But it looks to point to a few clubs in Michigan that would be on top so to say.
http://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/results.aspx?Level=State&Gender=Boys&Age=12&Region=2&State=MI
I was just looking at the age group my boys are in, but it's pretty easy to navigate/change.
It appears to also represent Indiana fairly well from what I know of the Ft. Wayne area.
Maybe someone else could expand on this tool if they have more information on this site...
Go Blue!
I have a family member currently playing D1 soccer. He played in the Development Academy for three years for a Michigan club. I'm familiar with his recruitment and I also have some knowledge on the recruitment of his teammates and some other players from the state that graduated in the same year as him.
It's a fact that MSU recruits the state much harder than Michigan. They have a much closer relationship with the big youth clubs in the state and it has definitely paid dividends. MSU has built a very strong program and about 75% of their players are from Michigan. I have also heard that MSU's coaches relate to the kids much better and are more approachable than Chaka and his coaches.
Although Chaka's national approach to recruiting seems to be working as he's been bringing in highly-rated players, I worry that it will become more and more difficult to sustain that approach if Michigan doesn't see more success on the field.
Soccer is an attrition sport. The recruits that are talented may go into many other professional soccer leagues in the USA or Europe, and we lose many players on our roster as a result. Chaka Daley is a good coach, knowledgeable, and has high expectations, but the competition like in many sports is tough. There is no easy way to build an elite program especially when academics are so rigorous and time consumming.
Yes, I agree that Brandon never should have fired Burns, but he did and Daley was a quality hire. Daley and all soccer coaches are in the same boat as other sports like baseball, hockey, basketball and others. If you recruit a true superstar, he'll be off to the pros in a year or two. Few players hang around for 4 or 5 years in some of these sports utilizing their "redshirt" option like football.
I believe men's soccer is like wrestling and swimming, it only gets 9.9 scholarships where women's soccer has 14. Most wrestlers only get .6 scholarship so the team can have about 16-17 guys on the roster to fill 10 weights. When you consider the lack of scholarships available, and the professional issues in the sport, Daley and other coaches are doing the best they can with the resources they have.
March 10th, 2015 at 10:23 PM ^
March 11th, 2015 at 10:06 AM ^
One other thing I'll say about the subject is that Daley has had three seasons thus far, and part of his struggles besides attrition has been injuries. Soccer is the #3 NCAA sport in injury rate behind football and wrestling. It is a rough sport with a lot of knee injuries due to cutting and contact. Michigan has had quite a few injuries that have limited their progress. Fans that think that every sport will have a quick turn around with a new coach are to say the least unrealistic besides impatient. Daley is a good coach, and I'm sure the athletic department is doing what they can to support and supervise his progress. There is nobody that wants a championship more than Daley. Keep in mind he led the team to a Big Ten Finals appearance only to lose to MSU with wind gusts to 50 mph that day.
March 11th, 2015 at 11:35 PM ^
Ugh! Crappy weather and Spartans seem to go hand in hand. Btw, does anyone know where those players who've left the team have gone? If they've transferred to another collegiate team, that could signal problems, but if they've decided to go pro or something like that, I'm not sure that's as big of an issue.
March 10th, 2015 at 10:03 PM ^
March 10th, 2015 at 10:44 PM ^
My assessment is that Daley isn't pounding the pavement in the Midwest. I think just like football some coaches think the grass is always greener outside the MIdwest, and in the case of soccer outside the country.
Someone else mentioned his camps aren't anything special either (vs Burns). I can agree to that based on personal observation.
The level of youth soccer in Michigan has improved greatly in the past 10 years due to the influx of foreign coaches and kids playing competitively year around., some now sadly skipping high school to play Academy. There is no shortage a very good D1 talent.
And just like football, you can't measure field brains, leadership, and passion/heart by 40 times and stats alone. Would like to see UM take a more local approach to recruiting and not just visit top college propsect tournaments looking for 5 stars.
March 10th, 2015 at 11:41 PM ^
This team went downhill after Soony Saad and Meram graduated. Soony Saad may have been the best player to ever walk into Ann Arbor (played against him in HS)...
Aside from that, Chaka has struggled to turn talent into results on the field and has seen top recruits in state go elsewhere (SEE: DeJuan Jones to MSU). Daley will get one more go I would say, but many of his decisions have been questionable such as giving Evan Louro run as the #1 GK over Adam Grinwis.
Would love to see a fresh new name enter and try to revitalize the passion for soccer at UM.