M-Lax Loses

Submitted by weasel3216 on

Well if you have not heard yet, Michigan Lax lost last night @Colorado 12-10. This ended the Michigan 49 game win streak.

I will not go into depth about the game, i will leave that for Tim early next week. Here is the Twitter page if you want to ready the game play-by-play (http://twitter.com/UMichLacrosse). Coach John Paul said that the first quarter was the worse Michigan defensive quarter this season. Michigan did start to make a comeback in the fourth, but were held scoreless in the last 3:30.

Personally, i am conflicted over the loss. On one hand i am sad that it is over as it would have been nice to get 50 straight wins. On the other hand it will be nice to have the pressure off for every game to win.

Michigan does play Sunday against Colorado State who is ranked #2 in the country and only loss came against Colorado College (D-III).

MGoShoe

April 10th, 2010 at 4:11 PM ^

...to continue on was unrealistic. Losses have a way of reminding dominant teams that they can't take anyone or anything for granted. Here's hoping that the team takes this to heart for Sunday's game against Colorado State. If they win, they should retain their #1 ranking, even with the loss to CU. Bottom line: better a loss now than in the playoffs.

Sac Fly

April 10th, 2010 at 6:10 PM ^

...Michigan can make the jump to D-I anytime in the next few years? I think they proved that their ready to move out of MCLA, what do you guys think?

weasel3216

April 10th, 2010 at 8:00 PM ^

Yes by i am guessing you read Tim's updates so you know all about the Title IX restrictions. Tim posted midweek this week (http://mgoblog.com/diaries/lax-midweek-update-and-weekend-preview)and had a link to an interview with Coach Paul. Tim noted that he thought Paul made it seem clear that Brandon is on board with making the jump to D-I, which Martin was not on board.

As for my personal view on the situation. I want the team to make the jump in the next year or two. I think we will lose Coach Paul if the program doesn't make the jump as i am sure there are programs willing to hire Coach Paul after his success here at Michigan. I am also sure these schools with D-I programs have a much larger budget for salaries than Michigan does. I also think that it is important to note that the jump is not that far off. The team is playing on privately funding the building of a strictly lacrosse based building right next to the athletic complex. This is an obvious sign that the team is on the verge of jumping, it is just a matter of the University forking up the money on the men's and women's scholarships.

phjhu89

April 10th, 2010 at 10:25 PM ^

They really have to do this in the next couple of years, or they will lose a great window of opportunity in regards to recruiting and scheduling. Too long and other up and coming D1 programs become "name" destinations for the increased HS talent out there, and the expanding schedules of the top tier teams out there get booked with long scheduling agreements with current teams.

phjhu89

April 10th, 2010 at 7:20 PM ^

which vulnerabilities were exposed against CU. The twitter feed doesn't tell us much - at least one empty netter due to a broken ride. I have seen this as a MAJOR vulnerability against a reasonably skilled opponent. The 10 man ride will have to become a rarity when/if they make the move to D1. Sounds like a bunch of unforced turnovers too - which doesn't sound characteristic of this team. Perhaps they were looking ahead to CSU - the team who beat Chapman? CU was supposed to be in chaos due to a coaching change, so M might have gotten complacent.

Anyway, either way, they still make the tournament, and likely still have to play the same teams they would have to play if they had the #1 seed. Its all at a neutral site, so its not like they are playing for any kind of home field. But whatever has ailed them against some of their better competition will need adjusting.

weasel3216

April 10th, 2010 at 8:06 PM ^

later. I would much rather lose to a decent Colorado team than lose to a Texas or Northeastern in the first round of the MCLA tourney. Michigan will be ready for CSU Sunday and i am positive that Coach Paul will make sure the team is ready for the MCLA tourney next month.

You are right about the ten man ride, i would not doubt that we would never see it again in D-I. I watched the UNC-Virgina game today and it really shows the difference between the elite NCAA teams and Michigan. A few people are saying that Michigan would be elite in a few seasons after the jump. I think it would take almost 5, maybe 6, seasons to be competitive with teams like UNC, Duke, Cornell, and Hopkins. Don't get me wrong Michigan will be competitive with teams such as Detroit Mercy, VMI, and Army but it will be a few years to gain that elite standing.

phjhu89

April 10th, 2010 at 9:31 PM ^

It will take even longer than that. Not only do they need (at least) 5 or 6 just to get the kind of personnel that would allow them to run with the elite teams, they also need a schedule that is demanding enough to "toughen them up." The ACC teams, Hopkins, and Syracuse play brutal schedules each year, which preps them for tournament play. Despite ND's problems this year, the new Big East lax conference gives them Cuse and G'town on their schedule every year - I expect the consistency of their play to increase because of it. It will take M a LONG time to get that kind of schedule.

Re: the 10-man ride, follow
this link to the section of _Lacrosse: Technique and Tradition" on rides (this is the bible of lax.) The 10-man ride is described as very risky, and only to be used when you absolutely need the ball back. I don't see why they use it at all. All it does for them is create these ludicrous goal differentials against tomato cans, and big vulnerabilities against quality opponents. I am sure they could beat the tomato cans with a less risky ride, which would allow them to spend their time practicing a more appropriate tactic for playing better teams.

weasel3216

April 10th, 2010 at 9:48 PM ^

Yeah i see your point that it could take 6 years or more, but i think the fact that Michigan has already sent Brekan Kohlitz to the MLL speaks to the talent on the team already. I think Michigan will need to have a lot more talent than they currently do, but i think Michigan will be able to compete at the lower and maybe middle level for the first 6 seasons or so.

Also, as others have pointed out, Michigan is a strong pull for student-athletes from the east. I think that this will help with recruiting a lot. Players will already have a desire to attend Michigan and to see that they have a D-I program will only solidify their decision.

phjhu89

April 10th, 2010 at 10:21 PM ^

don't read much into Kohlitz getting drafted. He was a pure FOGO, which is a different breed - think specialists. (as opposed to great 2-way middies who are also great face-off guys) In any event, he didn't actually catch on in the league. It will be a greater indication if you see a regular position player get drafted.

dick patten

April 10th, 2010 at 10:29 PM ^

I just found out about the loss. I am sure the team did the best they could. I have come to know Trevor and i am sure they did the best they could. I hope they become varsity soon. I didn't know much about lacross and trevor really helps me to understand it. Knowing Michigan, theywill come back and start a new streak. Go Blue

laxalum

April 11th, 2010 at 11:27 AM ^

The Michigan 10 man ride is very effective against even the best MCLA teams. Top MCLA lacrosse is on par with top D2 lacrosse, and Coach Kaley made his career, and won several national championships, based on the same ride. Ken Broschart, who was an All-American at NY Tech and coached there briefly, brought the ride with him when JP hired him three years ago. Look at the stats. Michigan is holding everyone, including the top MCLA teams, to under 50% clearing. Even if you give up a cheap goal or two, if you're keeping teams from clearing at that rate you're coming out way ahead in number of possessions.

Michigan's 10-man ride is unique in a lot of ways. I've never seen another team use one out of saves and turnovers, but Michigan does. It has also has several variations and adjustments, based on what the other team is doing. It's also important to note that Michigan does not use the 10 man ride all the time. They use two other rides that are much more standard, but also aggressive, again depending on the situation.

If you're quoting the Bob Scott of Technique and Tradition, then you're quoting some pretty out-dated material. The fundamentals and character stuff he outlines in that book are rock solid no matter the era, but the game has changed dramatically since it was written. Calling it the bible of lax is probably appropriate. Just like the actual bible describes things the way they were thousands of years ago.

There are current D1 tams that use 10 man rides. A couple of them use them a lot. I agree you can't make it your bread and butter at the elite D1 level, but Michigan has won two national championships using it. Watch last year's semifinal against Colorado and the year before against BYU. They absolutely destroyed those teams with it. The coaches are getting the most out of their personnel at the level they currently play at. I'm sure they understand that the same things they are doing now aren't the same things they'd be doing if they were playing Virginia and Syracuse.

On topic, I'm upset about the loss, but I do get the sense, being fairly close to the program still, that they have a hard time getting motivated on gameday sometimes after winning every game for almost three years. Hopefully this is the kick in the ass they need.

phjhu89

April 11th, 2010 at 3:14 PM ^

top 15 D1 teams that use a 10 man ride in anything other than we're down by 2 with 3 minutes left situations. Period. And Technique and Tradition was re-edited and re-released by Dave Pietramala about 5 years ago. 2-time D1 coach of the year. (I know, there are people who think Petro is a dinosaur) In terms of high end D1 schools, Duke has a reputation for a very aggressive ride, but it is still NOT a ten man ride. And that aggressive ride bit them in the rear end come the final four in 2007, 08, and 09.

As other MCLA teams get more disciplined, the 10 man ride will be less and less effective. The fact is, they have given up goals in multiple games using it this year, and that is a problem. It doesn't mean that they are not doing it as well as possible, it means that other teams have raised the level of their execution to the point where they have a greater probability of breaking the ride. And when this ride breaks, you pay for it.

laxalum

April 11th, 2010 at 11:06 PM ^

Or Scotts? Where did the quote come from? Regardless, I agreed with you. Elite D1 teams don't 10-man ride for obvious reasons. I would assume that the UM staff would adjust their strategy if they were coaching an elite D1 team. There is probably a lot they would adjust. If the team was truly elite, they would be coaching a completely different level of player/athlete.

I disagree with your assertion about MCLA teams learning to beat Michigan's ride. It's been three years. Nobody has really figured it out yet. In fact, their riding percentages have gotten better. They are holding teams to UNDER 50% ON THE YEAR! That's rediculous. This is not all coming against the cupcakes they have to play in conference games. All but three of their games this year have been against solid teams.

The top ranked teams they've played this year were BYU, ASU and CSU (all top 5). All three games were on the road, where the 10-man should be less effective (regulation size field versus the slightly narrower field and ceiling in Oosterbaan). ASU was 18-36 clearing. 50% is abysmal. They don't show their season stats on their website, but I assume they usually clear at a much higher rate. BYU was 13 of 21. Slightly better, but still way below the level they must usually clear at. I'll be interested to see CSU numbers from today, but I'd be willing to bet Michigan's ride played a huge role in their win.

As long as they can keep quality opponents under 65%, I wouldn't bet on seeing them go away from the 10-man. You're right that breakdowns occasionally result in fast breaks, but they usually don't. The trade off is they get turnovers in their opponents' offensive zone, often resulting in empty net goals or 1 on the goalie chances. I'm shocked that more MCLA teams, and more D2 and D3 teams for that matter, don't commit to the 10 man as their base ride. If you teach it right and get your team to buy in, it's a game changer.

laxalum

April 11th, 2010 at 11:08 PM ^

that they have won 50 of their last 51 games using the 10-man. Nobody else is even close to that. And from the report, it doesn't sound like the ride was the main culprit in the Colorado loss. I'm expectantly awaiting this week's alumni email from JP to hear exactly what happened. He tends to be pretty open in them. None of the media speak.