Is it on TV? What channel?
M Hockey @ WMU Saturday Open Thread
So glad I got Directv yesterday! With being in Chicago I could never see any games on FSD. Now with Directv I get the channel and can watch the hockey game tonight. Gotta love their sports pack. Get regional sports channels from all over the country.
Dammit, they score. 1-1.
it's now 1-1...
Fuck the ponies.
FUCK! PPG, them, they go ahead 2-1.
and 2-1...NOT michigan winning
FUCKFUCKFUCK WESTERN SO DAMN MUCH. I LOVE YOU GREG JENNINGS BUT GODDAMN I HATE THAT PLACE
No love for them?
Fuck I hate the 2nd period this season.
This team is pretty much done at this point I've realized. I'll never give up and stop watching them but it's just very depressing that we can't even hold a lead anymore. 2-0 lead last should have been a win. I just want this season to be over at this point. They can still get into the tourney but they'd have to put together 6 wins in 3 weeks in the playoffs.
What a garbage season.
Wow. 1st year program penn state knocked off sparty in el. They've beaten 2 B1G teams this year (state & ohio)
I'm lovin it.
ARGH! Stay out of the damn box!
So this is the first game I've seen this season (thanks for the heads up op)...is this game par for the course for the year?
Michigan likes to get off to a decent start, then just kind of fizzle off and lose.
Actually, it's a closer game than many others.
So the announcers are saying it should have been a penalty against Western but the student section (no surprise) is calling the penalty on Michigan (hence the "asshole" chant). Anybody watching the game care to enlighten us?
Coincidental roughing minors.
FFFFUUUUU. 3-1 them.
Notre Dame leads Ferris 4-2, early 3rd.
I'm really starting to hate Western Michigan hockey.
They'll slide back into being the no name program they are once they go into the nchc. Michigan isn't going to play them next year.
These announcers are wankers. And yes, that includes matt shepherd. I wish Michigan would can his ass as basketball play-by-play anyways.
You are a t-shirt fan, just saying.
I am a wmu alum who also is a bif michigan fan. I would prefer both clubs to be playing good, michigan just isnt this year. And yes, i have t shirts for both schools.
Interesting how you just stopped by to post the negative comment towards Michigan. Mr."bif Michigan fan".
So how original are we with our chants?
I thought the minute left in the period call by the student section was unique, but now that I heard Western did it I can't help but feel we took it from somebody else. Does anybody have any insight on this?
COY took the chants from cornell. Cornell came here in the 90s for an NCAA Tournament series and their students were chanting a bunch of things. Cornell made mostly every chant COY does up. We perfected it though.
If the intertubes can be believed, Wisconsin started the sieve chant.
We took most of Cornell's a while back, but both Miami and Western took a bunch of ours within the last few years.
BG is losing 3-1 to Miami.
And there's that 3-goal deficit again.
Just end this season.
I enjoy hockey but this is just a bad year, gotta have them once every quarter century I suppose...
They were up 2-0 last night and I went over to look at the standings and I thought if they got on a roll they could still make some noise. I feel so dumb right now.
Not the way I wanted to end our time in the CCHA.
MSU and UM, the premier programs of Michigan and the conference for a decade plus, have both shit the bed this season. What a crappy season
Time for Red to go.
One bad season? Okay then. I think UNC should have fired Roy Williams after 2009, or maybe Duke should have fired K after 1995. Calipari is going to miss the bball tourney this year, better fire him.
Look, if both the awesome goalies we were suppose to have weren't ganked away, do you really think this year is that bad?
Just stating my opinion. And it's more than one bad season.
To answer your question, yes I do think year would have been almost as bad even with the goaltending we expected.
That the only way Red can have been considered to have had more than one bad season since 1990, is because he has raised the bar that high.
And, out of curiosity, who do you suggest replacing him with? Mel and his sterling 7-12-4 record at Tech this year? Mike Babcock?
Well I'm sorry but the bar should be high. It's not like there are that many big-time schools with successful hockey programs and with the resources that we have. In my opinion, Michigan has underperformed for about 5 years now. I honestly believe that although Red has done great things for us, it is time for him to move on.
The last time Western swept Michigan was 1986. I think that was the year before Red, maybe his first year. That was the bar before Red. The bar before Red was routine 7+ goal losses to State and really anyone, at home. And I promise Western was less good back then. It's nice to say we should always be the best because we're Michigan, but that's not the way it works. Red is mostly beyond criticism, because for 22 years, come Hell or high water, he's had the team in the conversation at the end of the year. Every time. For 22 years. 12 team tournaments, 16, he's been in them. Nobody else has done that anywhere, or even been particularly close. Not Ron Mason, not Jerry York, not Jack Parker. But Red has done it. That's why we're loyal. I'd take an underperforming team that makes the tourney than an over performing one that doesn't every time.
And my second question stands. Who does more with this team than the guy with a Jack Adams?
Yes, and you know what? Joe Paterno was a really great coach for a long time. Coaches fade. They lose the ability to lead a successful team. Given Red's age, I think we're getting to that point.
Unlike Joe Paterno, who went down in flames (mostly due to the Sandusky scandal, of course) Red should have the dignity of stepping down on his own terms and helping make sure his successor will be able to transition as smoothly as possible. There is a right and a wrong way of going about things, and I believe that firing him outright at this point is absolutely wrong.
Also, he chose to extend his contract through 2016. This gives him ample time to get his coaching affairs in order, lead Michigan into B1G conference play, and hopefully ride off into the Saskatchewan sunset with some more impressive seasons than this one, which is a clear outlier. If you can't acknowledge that the man has at least earned that, I don't know what else I can tell you.
This is major college athletics. Nobody earns anything if they aren't winning.
Weird, I didn't know the SEC had hockey. Maybe we should just fire the old curmudgeon, somehow drag in a better coach, somehow oversign some fresh meat to our totally uprooted program (we can even sweeten the deal and slip them more money than they'd get in the OHL!) and then make room by yanking scholies from all the useless upperclassmen who aren't winning!
You're wrong, we're bad but we're still making money.
I feel like I was just in Minneapolis watching Michigan lose a championship game in OT after a hell of a run into the Final. Must have been dreaming.
Boy I feel like just the other day I was watching Charlie Weis in a BCS game.
Take a hike, troll.
This is the problem with this blog. I'm not a troll because I honestly believe that a Michigan coach is underperforming. Ever since the teens from Mlive joined, this has became little more than a worshipping of Michigan coaches and players. Criticism? NEGGED! YOU MUST NOT CHALLENGE ANYTHING MICHIGAN! It's absolutely absurd. Honestly, grow up and learn to deal with differing opinions.
It's funny how you called him a troll then posted this literally one post later. Stay classy.
Except Red has had consistently good seasons while Charlie Weis only had one. Also, unless you can inexplicably pry Jerry York from BC, you won't find a better coach in the country. Is this team underperforming? Yes. Is it a consistent pattern? At this point, no.
You're not a troll for thinking "that a Michigan coach is underperforming."
You're a troll for being, to put it bluntly, an uninformed dick about it.
You're right. Things are going great right now. And how have I been a dick about it? I'm expressing an opinion that I think a coaching change is needed. This is a sports blog. People put opinions abouts sports here.
Stating an opinion is fine. Stating an opinion that has been countered by at least three different posters and then continuing to harp on it even though it's been proven to be idiotic is just wrong. Seriously, why fire a guy who has brought 22+ years of consistency, 2 championships, and another finals appearance for one bad season? You aren't getting York out of BC and no one else has been able to do what Red has at a program.
I'm not disputing that he's been a great coach. I just think he's past his prime, and it's time to start looking elsewhere. Maybe we can't get York, but I think with our money we could at least sway Lucia. How long do we give Red? Until he's 80?
“I mean let’s face it, I’ll be 76 when this contract is over. So I would say it’s the last contract,” Berenson said. “In theory, you would say this will be the last contract. I would be surprised if there would be another one after this.”
Well thank the lord. Only three more years!
Why do I get the feeling you heard the same from your parents round about age 15?
Because I actually went to college, and you're a dick? By the way, how's that WCC education treating you?
You finally got it right on the third try!
So did I, and my parents even visited too. Is this going to turn into a parental love/scholarly pursuits dick-measuring contest, or are you going to continue naming more coaches Michigan is not going to buy after Dave Brandon doesn't fire Red?
Sure you did.
You're just a bundle of joy aren't you?
Hate to tell you, but you're attacking one of the people who is directly responsible for a lot of the things that happen in the student section at Yost now. Nice try with the WCC jab, but way off the mark.
Responsible for things in the Yost student section? Wow. Can that go on a resume?
So, go fuck your assumptions. Just because I own a motorcycle does not mean I do not have a Michigan aerospace engineering degree. I also own a car, and I'm rather gainfully employed in LA right after graduating at age 21. Still missing Ann Arbor and my buddies at Yost. I won, bonsoir. [picture deleted. JGB]
Wow, this might be one of the most embarassing posts ever typed on a blog. The name covered up, the note, the helmet. Just wow. [mod redacted. JGB]
But seriously, I am really impressed that you own a car and live in a city of several million people. That is so rare these days.
this all needs to stop here. Comments about personal appearance are also highly unwelcome.
But handwritten notes telling people to suck his dick is ok? Come on now...
I didn't realize it was bigger than that. No, that's not okay either, obviously. Nothing more personal from anyone here.
I miss being able to neg people.
and the arguments at hand (directed at anyone reading this, not just CleverMichiganReference). Parental love doesn't have much to do with whether an opinion on Red is a good one to have or not, anyway.
I'm fine with this. Unfortunately, everytime I present an opinion that doesn't conform with the notion that Michigan is the God of the sports world, I get attacked for it.
First of all, your initial post was a short statement saying the Red should be fired and presented no supporting arguments. You knew that would be inflammatory and provoke a number of people to respond negatively. That is the definition of trolling.
Secondly, if you are going to roll around in the mud and issue personal attacks including unflattering comments about another's appearance, then you do not hold the moral high ground.
Finally, your argument that Red should be replaced with Don Lucia is ridiculous and further shows that you do not deserve to be taken seriously. For one thing, Don Lucia wouldn't come here. He's been at Minnesota for over a decade and has his roots in the state, having been born and raised there. For another, Minnesota will match whatever we give him because hockey is more important at Minnesota than here. At Michigan, we have an elite football program and our basketball program is, at the least, approaching its pre-Ellerbe status as a national player. Thus hockey is relegated to number 3 status on campus and it is inflexible. In contrast, Minnesota's football and basketball programs are mediocre to poor on the aggregate, whereas Minnesota hockey ranks among the nation's elite and thus commands more attention from their fanbase and athletic department. This is further augmented by Minnesota high school hockey being something that people actually care about. But most importantly, prior to last season, Lucia missed three NCAA tournaments in a row and barely made the tournament in 07-08. So it's not like his resume is perfect either.
There are valid, thoughtful critiques one can make about Red's recent performance as head coach. For example, there are valid complaints about the recent recruiting of goaltenders and, to a lesser extent, forwards. Another example concerns our middling power play in recent years, especially considering that used to be a strength year in and year out. But you did not make these points. Instead, you whined alot and put out vague platitudes as reasons Red should be fired..
You can complain about goalie recruiting very much. He had Campbell, who was considered at that time to be a player an NHL team could be built on, lost him to the OHL, in the course of about a month, in a sport where recruiting happens about 2 years in advance, go the #1 goalie for the next year, only to lose him to te OHL too. Maybe he should have been able to keep them, but they can offer things he can't. I don't think it's fair to expect him to keep recruiting goalies when he has one in the fold already. The PP you certainly have a point, that's been bad for a while. Forwards and recruiting in general has been down the last few years. Merrill and Trouba, probably Brown and maybe Nieves are really the only high-profile people to come in the last few years. Several others (Moffatt, Clare etc.) were rated highly when they committed, but less so when they got here. The few years in advance thing hurt the team pretty bad in there and I blame Miami and Notre Dame being good now, too. But next year's class should be the most talented in the last 5 or so years.
I won't pretend to know whether there was anything Red could do about getting Campbell or Gibson on campus. That said, I do know that before this year, at which point we were desperate, the last scholarship goalie that made it to campus was Bryan Hogan. We lucked out big time with Hunwick, but Hogan's injury three years ago could have just as easily been disastrous. Furthermore, I would argue that we should have taken another goalie when Gibson committed. Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but we'd lost our only goalie recruit the year before and we knew we had no other scholarship guys starting this season, so we should have gotten insurance.
But this is all I'm going to say on the matter because firing Red is insane.
Interestingly enough, there was plenty of civilized discussion of Red's retirement in the comments. Nice try on the "Brian Cook lackeys" theory though, but he's also publicly gotten into it with the student section before.
I would firmly rebut this, but you appear to know very little about college hockey, so I won't bother. Unless you have a plan to hire Jerry York, you're not going to find a coach with a clearly superior record over the last five years, to say nothing of the last 25.
Edit: reply fail, posted the reply to the wrong post. I am responding to GhostOfYost's assertion that the last five years have been substandard.
Coming from the guy who wrote about Jim Harbaugh's virtues, I really don't take seriously anything you have to say.
All optimism I spouted last night and humbly surrender, with no conditions, to whomever I was arguing with last night.
First time swept by WMU since 1986. Lots of firsts this season, and not in a good way.
Exactly, and with the fair amount of talent we have, I don't understand why people here continue support Red no matter what. It's like he's beyond criticism.
Hmm, let's see here-
- Winningest coach in program history at 760-367-79
- 2 National Championships
- 11 CCHA Championship
- 9 CCHA Playoff Championships
- 22 straight NCAA Tournament appearances
- 11 Frozen Fours
- 2 Hobey Baker winners
I bet you were one of those nutjobs that wanted Bo fired after the 6-6 season in 1984 or wanted Fisher fired after missing the tournament in 1996-97.
Seriously. We are the most spoiled fan base there is. You don't realize how many programs would kill for that kind of success over a 20 year period.
I'm not arguing that success that he has had. I'm arguing about the success he can have moving forward, which makes your point irrelevant. He's 73 years old, and he has lost this team. I think it's time for someone else to step in.
That's great. Have you seen the class Michigan has coming in next year? You should have, because two of the commits scored goals in the US U-18 team's win over Michigan.
It's one bad year. Quit overreacting.
I don't care about recruiting classes. I care about wins. Red is not winning.
Listen fool. It's been one year. He's had 25 straight 20+ win seasons. How is he not winning.
3/4 of one season and you want him fired. Nice sample size.
You forgot the question mark.
I think it's fairly obvious. First, he's too good a coach for one of his teams to be this consistently bad if they're paying any attention at all. Second, for the first time, really ever, Red has moments when he looks old out there. Sometimes a coach and his team just don't click. It doesn't make that coach a bad coach, it doesn't even always make that team a bad team. Heck, I don't know that Rick Comley ever didn't lose a team, his NCAA title run in 2007 with State, the team admitted they didn't pay any attention to him at all. I highly doubt that vintage, mid-90's Red would be having any more success with this team than he is right now (mostly becuase I don't think he's changed all that much).
Jeff Jackson at Notre Dame doesn't stack up that poorly against Red. He has rings galore, he coaches (now) at a brand name school, he has all the talent in the world at his disposal. He's missed the tournament, I think twice, in the last five years, with seasons that, while not quite as bad as Michigan's now, were still dismal. By his standard proven by his resume as a coach and by whatever mythical bar you want to set for Notre Dame on name alone. In between those years (during which they were expected to challenge for a title), they've challenged for national titles, some when they weren't supposed to and they're very much in the running this year. Next year, who knows?
I'm sorry you don't think 4 tournament berths, a championship game, a CCHA regular season title and a CCHA tournament title, 3 GLI titles and 109 wins, all in the last four years, still the most alumni in the NHL of any school and continuing to recruit at an elite level is good enough for Michigan. The rest of us do. That, not to mention his other feats, or that we believe he still very well may go out with yet another national title, is why we still support Red .
are hockey fans going to earn some type of badge of fandom by continuing to watch this team as much as possible this year?
The Badge of Fandom Resilience
The first time we've been swept in Kalamazoo since the year I was born. Relieved that I chose to go hang out and meet new people in Rochester Hills, rather than run the Michigan Hockey Net live-blog in Kalamazoo and cover this horrendous hockey. There are a lot of issues here: Janecyk clearly not being the answer; no secondary scoring to speak of; last but not least, no mental toughness when things go awry. The most troubling trend of all: we've had leads in just about all of these road losses. Streaks are made to be broken. You can't have 2-plus decades of dominance last forever. As a blogger, I have to be honest, but fair. As an Alumnus, it breaks my heart like nothing you know.
In any event, excited about what the U.S. NTDP is bequeathing us for next season!
Is this season a victim of a 40-Year Old Curse?*
This team now has one win in 2013 and needs to win at least twice between now and the end of the season to avoid what happened 40 years ago when the Wolverines went 2-15-1 after New Year’s Day.
In the 1972-73 hockey season, Michigan finished 6-27-1 overall (1-11 vs. Big Ten teams; 4-25-1 in the WCHA - and one win was by forfeit because Boston University used an ineligible player in their 7-3 win over the Wolverines on December 28 in the consolation game of the Great Lakes Invitational.)
Michigan won only two games during the 1973 part of that season: on January 12 (6-4 over Denver at home) and on March 3 (3-2 at North Dakota in the last game of the season, after having tied North Dakota 4-4 the night before.)
*There’s probably no 40-Year Curse, because the Wolverines were 10-4-0 in 1932-33.
+1 to the wanker negging me for no particular reason. I'm happy to know I matter enough for you to do that with everything post.
You're in Bolivia, calling someone else a "wanker," and you still wonder why you're getting negged?