M going back to pro punt formation?
Buried in this article about general practice tidbits:
Michigan doesn't have a rugby-style punter on its roster this year, and so far, it looks like Chris Partridge's plan is to go with a traditional NFL-style punt formation. That could change, of course. But Kenny Allen -- who may end up handling all kicking duties -- is a traditional pro-style punter.
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2016/03/observations_from_mic…
Say it ain't so.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
The difference is when you release them. In a shield punt (spread punt), you release the front line at the same time, it's shuck and go, leaving the shield in to protect the punter. In a pro-style punt, you release the gunners and the snapper immediately, and the second group release a beat later.
Michigan had a number of punts last year nearly blocked, and a couple that were blocked. Now they have a traditional punter that can't move the launch point. They can still run the shield punt in nominal cases, but they need more of a pro-style punt.
By the way, there very easiler could be confusion, in that Michigan may be running a max-protect shield punt formation, which looks a lot like a pro-style punt formation, and just working on that. Which they need.
How do the other teams that run shield formation with a non-rugby style punter get away with it? It's not like no one is doing it, in fact the pro-style teams are very much the exception.
The primary ways are to reduce split at the LOS, particularly those between the snapper and the OGs (this, like a pro-style punt, makes the path to the punter longer). You can adjust your shield to where the overload is.
Most teams just reduce splits. It will look like a pro-style punt except there will be a shield in front of the punter rather than a single lead back and wings. The splits tend to be a bit wider than a pro-style punt, but it mitigates the ability of the block team to fit multiple people through gaps and thus overload the protection.
We had a couple punts blocked last year? All I can remember right now is "the drop." When did they get blocked?
There was at least one other block - I seem to remember it was late in the year, might have even been against Florida in the Citrus Bowl. It wasn't a "shove it down the punter's throat" kind of block, but they overloaded the side O'Neill rolled to and got a hand on it. Ball made it to about the line of scrimmage or somewhere around there.
Thought there was one more, maybe not. I know there were probably a dozen times the opponents got very close.
I definitely agree that opponents got too close for comfort several times. I'm one of the people that thinks "the drop" could've even gotten blocked without the bobble.
I don't see why the type of punter really matters that much, it's more about your ability to cover the return. Hopefully the MSU disaster isn't driving them towards this terrible decision
The first spread experiment at Michigan was terminated with extreme prejudice after similar disasters, but you would think with a full season of data, they would be convinced the benefits outweigh the risks and instead of scraping it, they could think of ways to mitigate the risk in obvious block attempt situations like the State fiasco. That, and you know, snap the ball without skipping it.
I totally remember that. That was before anybody had ever seen spread punting outside of a few mid-majors and Michigan came out to punt, first game of the season all split wide with the punter running around and the Big House crowd lost their marbles. Not sure if it was that first game or shortly thereafter, but they were playing with fire and sure enough they got one blocked. The crowd went absolutely bonkers and the whole idea was immediately thrown in the trash mid-game. Came out next punt in the standard pro formation.
Always felt bad for that ST coordinator (feel like I should remember the name, but I can't come up with it). He knew what he was doing. Just didn't hold up to the pressure.
It was in 2003. Lost us the Oregon game at Oregon. It kind of put them on the map:
What he knows about football he learned here. Unfortunately he still doesn't understand the game well enough to go solo, this is a case in point. He incorrectly assumes that the type of punter always dictates the punt formation, therefore in his mind if Allen isn't a Rugby style punter then it follows that the punt formation will by pro-style.
The way the article is worded, he clearly understands the difference between pro style punter and pro style formation. I guess we'll know for sure on Friday at the open practice.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
I would agree with this sentiment - if we're in a position where the pro formation is what best fits the talent, then I would rather the staff go in that direction even though, like many here, it is not my favorite formation as punts ago. If they believe they have the talent to make this work for them, then I don't think many people would complain that much in the long term. We've seen enough of fitting round pegs into square holes in the last several years to keep us a bit, I think.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
You don't need a rugby style punter to run a "spread' punt. But you do need to have adjustments to your protection that you don't otherwise have because you cannot move your launch point, meaning teams can overload the protection. Often times, this means placing guys in the split between the snapper and guards, or squeezing that gap to force guys around them. It also requires you to have a max protection scheme in the event an opponent is lining up in such a way to come after the kick, because they can overload you quite easily with numbers.
Note though, that while a max protection "spread" punt looks similar to a pro-style punt, there are slight differences. But almost all teams have a max protect punt formation for certain situations, including those that always run the spread punt and most that have rugby punters.
The formation does NOT rely on having a rugby style punter. Do you even watch football ? /s
Go Blue!
Yes, teams do it all the time.
that's just not possible. Coaches can only know how to do one thing and one thing only.
Spread coach with a pro-style QB? Fuck it, we're running read-option plays.
Pro-style coach with excellent dual-threat QB's? Fuck it, Manball!
Isn't it possible that they're changing their system to fit the expertise of the coaches rather than the talent on the roster? Without Baxter, who on our staff has experience teaching and managing a spread punt formation? It seems like we have a bunch of NFL guys / non-special teams guys who might not know how to run it well.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
It's a non-issue as Michigan's Offense will be so good that punting will be unnecessary.
SCORE ALL THE POINTS!!!
Fire Harbaugh.
Let's have a look at WD's aunt's' friend's' email's first.
/that'salotofapostrophies
And half of them aren't even necessary!
It's cool we wont need one this year.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
Seth tweeted some Punting Efficiency Charts (@ Coach, I think) but apparently they were deleted.
Seth: post the data!
how many people think we'll be punting this year. That said, I actually approve of this unless we actually find a spread punter (or Allen can be trained). If not done right, it might be a disaster.
I thought spread vs. Pro punt formation was more about the gunners, and not about the punter. You can have a spread punt formation without the punter rolling rugby style.
That's what I thought too - the formation has more to do with coverage rather than not getting the punt blocked.
Other college teams spread punt without Aussie kickers.
Does anyone have experience coaching special teams, that can explain the real advantage of NFL punting formation vs college spread punting formation?
Shhhhh, don't point that out or people won't be able to easily explain why it's obviously a great idea when Jim Harbaugh decides to pro-punt but a terrible idea when Brady Hoke does.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
Thank you !
Go Blue!