Meh. We haven't beat anyone of note yet, a few teams that have jumped us.
M Falls One Spot in AP Poll
But If our O line and D line can't start to perform better we wont have a number to worry about next to our name...
I am not optimistic about our B1G chances. Luckily, Denard along basically guarantees 2-3 TD's a game, so it forces the other teams to perform at least semi-respectably on offense in order to beat us.
Also guarantees at least 1-2 bonehead plays a game that will at least add up to 1 TD for our opponents...
i agree... i love denard and everything he has brought us, but i am looking forward to having a QB that can hit a wide open WR 50 yards down field on more than just a jump ball
I cannot believe something this dumb was upvoted to 5.
as you wish. Through 3 games, Denard has 4 INTs. All have resulted inTDs for the bad guys. You're an idiot with dreads covering your eyes.
He also has seven hundred yards through the air, six touchdowns and is averaging nearly ten YPA. That's on top of him being the best runner in the nation.
Take a look at all of Michigan's quarterback records, Denard is close to the top of most of them.
He agreed that Denard produces excellently. He also said in addition to that production Denard consistently gives the other team points via boneheaded plays (then gave a stat to back that up). I'm not sure where the extreme discontent with his statements comes from? I think that is a very reasonable comment.
Except he only provided the raw stat. You can't make a blanket statement that Denard makes boneheaded plays, use 4 interceptions as your evidence, and not present all the facts.
He made one ill advised throw in the Alabama game that was not intercepted. He made a throw to Roundtree in the same game who was shoved to the earth as he was making the pass. There was an interception on him because of his footwork, but considering that he was being hammered all night, not the worst performance possible.
The ball went off Vincent Smith's hands and was intercepted. This could be argued whose fault it was, but this was not really a "boneheaded play."
Poor footing on this interception as he had his left foot pointed almost 90 degrees from the intended reciever. Not boneheaded so much as poor mechanics on his part.
I'll give you the first Bama INT where he challenged Bama's best CB against Tree. The pick 6 against Bama was horrible, the 3 yard bullet to 2 Guns was his fault against AF and the UMASS pick 6 was all his fault. You guys act like this is something new with Shoelace. He's a Senior and he has made the same mistakes for 3 years. Why are we still using the "mechanics" excuse? Regardless, I love the kid and know he's humble and gives 100%, but the things people use as excuses for him is the exact reason he will be playing WR and returning kicks in the NFL. Like I said, i will gladly take the good with the bad, but i wish the bad was not so inevitable almost every game. Can one of you stat guys tell me what percentage of Denard starts has been turnover free where he hasnt fumbled or thrown an INT?
If you want to say that Denard 2011 was very bad at turnovers, I'll give you that. That isn't what you're saying though. Extracting the numbers you're asking for wouldn't prove much without something to compare it to, so I made this little chart instead.
|Andrew Luck (2011)||288||404||10||2.48%|
|Andrew Luck (2010)||263||372||8||2.15%|
|Matt Barkley (2011)||308||446||7||1.57%|
|Matt Barkley (2010)||236||377||12||3.18%|
|Peyton Manning (1997)||287||477||11||2.31%|
|Peyton Manning (1996)||243||380||12||3.16%|
|Kirk Cousins (2011)||267||419||10||2.39%|
|Kirk Cousins (2010)||226||338||10||2.96%|
|Chad Henne (2007)||152||278||9||3.24%|
|Chad Henne (2006)||203||328||8||2.44%|
|John Navarre (2003)||270||456||10||2.19%|
|John Navarre (2002)||248||448||7||1.56%|
|Matt Stafford (2008)||235||383||10||2.61%|
|Matt Stafford (2007)||194||348||10||2.87%|
|Michael Vick (2000)||87||161||6||3.73%|
|Michael Vick (1999)||105||181||5||2.76%|
|Vince Young (2005)||212||325||10||3.08%|
|Vince Young (2004)||148||250||11||4.40%|
|Pat White (2008)||180||274||7||2.55%|
|Pat White (2007)||144||216||4||1.85%|
|Cam Newton (2010)||185||280||7||2.50%|
What you have here is a comparison between some prolific passers in their Junior and Senior seasons (and Denard in his Sophomore and Junior seasons). At the top you will find the traditional pocket passer, and those guys average an interception 1.5 to 3% of the time. The dual threat type quarterback has a much wider range 2 to 5% being the norm. If Denard can get back to his rate in 2010, then I'm not so sure what the great big concern is.
This only shows how bad Denard has been with his decisions. He has 2 of the worse percentages on the entire graph and it's not even close. If we're hoping for the third worse stat on the chart then we are in major trouble. Either way, I'm still believing he can lead us to a B1G championship and he is in my top 5 favorite CFB players of all time.
Third worst on that list is like 10th best on any normal list.
Did you happen to note the names on that list?
I'll just leave this here.
When Denard's career is over at U-M, he will [most likely]* be 3rd all time passing yards and 2nd all time rushing yards in U-M history.
Just think about that for a minute.
*[using projected stats]
Now you're just being biased and dickish. One pick in the Alabama game was Roundtree being shoved to the earth, the Air Force pick was from a ball that went off Smith's hands.
So yeah, he has had a couple throws that were ill advised, but you make it sound like he's shitty, or something. He is very far from just chucking it every play.
Nobody loves Shoelace more than me, but the one thing he himself preached all summer was cutting down on turnovers. He has shown improvement in every area except that one. Nobody expects him to be perfect, but he still makes ill advised decisions and throws. It not a sin the bring that up and we all know the last thing we can afford in the next 2 games is bonehead turnovers.
So you call me an "idiot with dreads in his eyes" because I point out that it is dumb to complain about quarterbacks hitting "wide open receivers 50 yards downfield" and we are the children?
1. There needs to be no rebuttal in regards to how stupid that post was and the fact that it was greeted positively, other than to note how stupid it was. Someone had to say it.
2. I was referencing the above poster's wish for a QB who can hit a "wide open man 50 yards downfield" as if this is a common, highly simple task that QBs routinely accomplish. As if there are wide open receivers with no DB within 5 yards of them that Denard is simply missing. Watching the NFL today, I've seen half a dozen QBs miss open receivers downfield. Its not an easy task and people who think Morris is going to be dead accurate on bombs are out of their minds. Then again, they are the same people who think that benching Denard for Gardner is a good idea, so it makes sense.
3. Quite frankly, its attitudes like yours and the above that are ignorant. You act as if Denard takes more away than he gives. Does he throw a few more interceptions than I would like? Sure, but he also scores more TDs on the ground than the pro-style QB some of you crave. He creates plays out of nothing with his feet. When our pro-style QBs are getting dropped for sacks that Denard would have avoided, I have a feeling we'll all remember things a little differently.
Also Chad Henne's interceptions per year: 12, 8, 8, 9. Completion percentage: 60.2, 58.4, 61.9, 58.3.
Denard's interceptions per year (two years starting): 11, 15. Completion percentage: 62.4, 55.0. Remember there's a coaching change in there.
What's the point of this? Well considering Henne missed a large chunk of his senior season we he tossed up 9 picks, I'm not seeing that much of a difference between what people want and what we have in regards to the passing game by the numbers. Henne did all this a handful of NFL receivers and a consistent running threat at his side at all times. Since this is what people want to go back to, it seems like we would be eliminating the occasional bad interception while at the same time giving up the advantage of having a quarterback who can rush for 1000 yards, 15 TDs on the ground, break teams for big plays with his feet, avoid sacks, etc.
4. I've never seen a player who has given more great moments to a team as disrespected by supposedly intelligent people as I have Denard Robinson. I assume you're the type who said things like "DEVIND GARNER WOULD BE QUARTBACK WHO WIN" last year and "CANT WATE FOR MORIS, HE WILL HAVE %94.7 ACCUACY!" this year and since this is obvious, maybe you should just quiet down till he gets here or Devin starts, so we can accurately compare what we had to what you want.
4. I've never seen a player who has given more great moments to a team as disrespected by supposedly intelligent people as I have Denard Robinson.
When our offense is vanilla and full of 6 yard play action passing to tight ends, we will think back to a day when a player named "Shoelace" made magic on many a Saturday.
If only we had a receiver that could get wide open 50 yards down the field. Denard gives 110% every game, quit your bitchin and acting like were a NC contending team. These guys try their hardest and you want to complain like it matters. Grow up.
Last year through three games (WMU, 8-5 ND, and EMU at home) we were giving up 4.8 ypc and had produced 12 TFL and 3 sacks.
This year through three games (Bama on a neutral site, AFA, and UMass) we are giving up 4.3 ypc and have produced 19 TFL and 3 sacks.
I think it is fair to say that Bama > ND, AFA > EMU, and UMass with Cox > or = WMU in terms of rush offense. I know we all like to parrot back the coachspeak and everybody wants to assume Coach Hoke walked into a nightmarish situation (despite his 13-3 record), and Bama certainly can make you look bad, but this team is better than last year's on both sides of the ball (Devin Gardner has already caught more TDs than Hemingway did in 12 regular season games), especially at this point of the season and they are only going to get better as some first time contributors find their legs. Losing to an ND team with a freshman QB and no secondary would/should be a major disappointment.
^ Here's the truth. ^
The one thing that we really benefitted from at this point last year was turnovers. Our defense was being shredded to bits by everyone, and one of the main reasons for our defensive stats were turnovers. Well, this year we don't have those turnovers, but our defense and offense are playing better than they were at this point last year. Improvement will come. That and most of the data people are using to say that our defense is bad is a game in which we gave up ZERO offensive touchdowns, a triple option team, and the undisputed best football team in the country. Michigan in its current state would probably beat most of the SEC (UK, Ole Miss, Vandy, Arkansas, Miss. State, Auburn), and go toe-to-toe with the top-of-the-middle (Florida, Tennessee, Mizzou, TAM).
By the way, Air Force is consistently ranked between 35-45 in advanced metrics, so your comparisons should go like this:
Bama >>>>>>>> ND
AFA >>>>> WMU
EMU => UMass with Cox + 3/4 transfers from ND.
I just did AFA and EMU as the comparison since both are so run heavy in their approach, whereas UMass and WMU were spread teams that throw it more. Either way it is pretty clear last year's schedule was a lot easier.
I'm all about being an optimist and all, and you can slice and dice the stats all you want, but our O-line and D-line have been consistently outplayed each game. This didn't happen last year. But for a couple games we were on the plus side of controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.
Denard won the Air Force game by himself (with some Devins sprinkled in). The line play should scare the hell out of us.
The last two games we've averaged roughly 7 ypc and our QB has been sacked once. If that constitutes "consistently outplayed" I just hope our offensive line can keep sucking like that all year. UMass didn't score a TD, ran for 3 ypc, and put up 259 yards of offense. Guess I must have turned my head away from the TV during all their dominating plays. Air Force (a very good offense that is tricky to defend) racked up some yards on the perimeter because we had a shitty gameplan and our corners played poorly in run support when faced with a difficult task. Our defensive line had little/nothing to do with it.
Oh, and we played the best team in the country, a squad that hasn't allowed a point to anyone else yet this season and didn't let LSU pass midfield in the national title game. Yeah, we probably should have kicked their ass up and down the field.
Last year EMU ran for over 200 yards against us at 4.5 ypc. An 8-5 ND team ran for 198 yards on 6.0 ypc. Our running backs put up 10 yards on 8 carries against the Irish.
But just go ahead and continue saying "The lines suck, dude! This wouldn't have happened last year!" without any factual basis for the statement other than your knee jerk impression/opinion.
Watch the games! I couldnt care less what the stats say or what the rankings are. We have not shown one glimpse of dominance on either line and we have had the opportunities to do so. You guys need to stop making excuses for the Bama and AF game. Bama is great, AF is tricky, blah blah blah. Bottom line we want to compete for a B1G and BCS championship and the effort on both lines do not speak well to either goal!!!
Here's Denard's increased load in the passing game from last year to this year,
All of his stats are up except his TD/INT ratio is the same as last year (albeit he has 20 more attempts).
I was talking about the O and D lines. I think Denard has improved greatly with the exception of the fact that he's on pace to at least match his INT mark set last year...
In this string of posts you mention Denard. So it is worth discussing his statistics as well.
It is also worth noting that anyone who touches the ball almost every single play, is going to make some mistakes. There appears to be an additional burden on him this year, compared to last year. It also looks like he is on track to settle down a little sooner than he did last year. We'll see.
Yeah...that makes sense. He's on track to settle down as the schedule gets tougher. Say that out loud and then tell me if it still makes sense. I love Denard, and I'll gladly live and die by what he does on the field. I just cant see how anyone can feel comfortable with our line play going into the next two weeks. Especially after watching MSU and ND play yesterday.
He "settled down" into the Nebraska and Ohio part of the schedule last year i.e. into a tough stretch of schedule.
Also, I'm not sure what Big Ten you are watching, but only one of the previous three games is any easier than the average B1G game we will see.
Show me another QB that can do that.
Must have something to do with the dilithium.
Kayshin15- Trolling hard today huh?
The last two games we've averaged roughly 7 ypc and our QB has been sacked once.
but it's conveniently covering over the fact that Fitz has had little to no room to run so far. Even against UMass yesterday he sometimes struggled to find space
He and Bellomy were the only ones to average less than 6 YPC yesterday. Something tells me that the issue might not be with the line. The reason that he's struggling is that he dances around behind the line instead of cutting it up or just straight up bouncing it outside. That stuff works when you have one or two guys to beat, but it doesn't work when you have 5 or 6 guys around you trying to tackle you. If he'd be more decisive, I'm thinking he'd be getting 100 yards per game without a sweat.
Hoke even said in the post game that Fitz needs to "plant his foot and get vertical" He keeps stutter stepping and hesitating long enough for holes to close and defenders to get their hands on him. Looked great on the edge, though.
The drop in production from Fitz (4.0 ypc as opposed to 5.7 through 3 games and 5.6 on the year) is leaving teams open to other things. Denard is running for 8.8 ypc (he was at 7.0 through three games last year and finished at 5.3) and we've thrown the ball 20 more times through three games than we did a year ago while still hitting at 9.3 per attempt.
Teams are probably keying on Fitz more than they did a year ago when he was more of an unknown and they are doing so at their peril. The offense as a whole is doing just fine. Despite playing Bama and being -3 in turnovers instead of +6, we're scoring 36 ppg (as opposed to 33.3 at the same point a year ago).
As teams realize they are getting killed by Denard's legs and Gardner/Funchess/Gallon things will start to balance out more, or they will just continue to get killed that way. You didn't see USC hanging their head after the 2007 Rose Bowl because they only ran for 2.1 ypc and 48 yards against our D.
FIguring out averages for our production through three games, when one game was against one of the best college defenses in the last 20 years and another was against a baby seal, is useless. So far 1/12th of the season has consisted of Russell Bellomy trying to run clock behind an offensive line made up of walk-ons and 1/3rd of the season has been against the toughtest defense we'll see all year... and you're drawing conclusions from that?
do you watch the games? keep throwing out stats all you want. i will base my conclusions on what i see. watching denard run for hundreds of yards on broken plays doesn't constitute a good o-line. we likely lose to air force with any other QB in the country. the lack of production from the RBs is proof our o-line is suspect. i doubt our RBs have regressed. pass protection is their strength, but denard avoids many sacks. even the smallish air force d-line was getting consistent penetration against the run. it was denard's playmaking ability that saved the day.
watching the center of our d-line get consistently pushed around doesn't constitute a good d-line. i really want what you're smoking if you think our current d-line is any where close to last years'. regarding Umass, they haven't scored a offensive TD all year and Cox averaged over 4 yds a pop; 70+ yds. UConn shut them out (Cox 5 rushes for minus 4; 59 TOTAL team yds). Indiana gave up similar total ydsas us but Cox gained 36 on 15 carries.
i'm not saying these guys can't improve, but they have a long way to go. i think it's obvious to almost everyone but you that the last years' lines are better than this years. this shouldn't be a newsflash.
I can't argue with that one. Even Hoke agrees. All he talks about in the post game interviews is a need to improve at the point of attack on both sides, and they aren't near where they need to be....yet
I'm pretty sure he said the same thing before and after every game last year during the season. I'm pretty sure he'll say the same thing every season he is coaching here. If he ever says anything other than "We need to be more physical and play better up front" you'll be able to knock me over with a feather.
That doesn't mean it's not true. Our rushing numbers the last 2 games have been greatly skewed by Denard taking it to the house 3 times. Against Air Force he accounted for more than 100% of the total offense because nobody else managed overall positive rushing yards. They didn't need to, but they also didn't manage to. I really think our lack of success running between the tackles will continue against ND, unless it's Denard with an extra blocker. To date the majority of those plays he's been tackled by a defensive lineman shedding their blocker, too. Later in the season I think we can, but not by next Saturday.
I, for one, am fairly pissed that Denard's long touchdowns don't count towards the final stats or scoreboard. If only they did, we might be 2-1 right now, instead of 1-2 with that terrible loss to Air Force.
It just seems patently unfair that the rulebook is biased against one player to such a degree.
Dude, we were talking about how effective the oline blocking has been in the run game. He was using stats as an example of their success. I was saying the stats are skewed by denards ability and don't reflect offensive line production. Join the discussion, or start a new one, but don't be a smartass prick. The offensive line needs to improve its run blocking if we're going to beat our rivals and win the B1G Championship.
Remind me why I'm glad to be leaving shortly.
Traffic's way up, but you can't really have a good debate anymore. I should just give up and post funny gifs instead. Everybody seems to love those.
I hear you. I should have just posted a Picard "facepalm" up there and moved on.
(Only came into the thread to figure out how moving one spot in the polls got 134 posts)
Where I can live out my days.
First kid is on the way, and my work demands are picking up. Plus, I'm growing pretty weary of dealing with... yeah. So, bottom line, I've let Brian know I'm taking a step back soon.
You moved to East Lansing, didn't you?
You'll like just posting without being a mod. We don't have to wear pants.
Hey you know what would be fun!?! Let's all post until the boxes are super super super super super tiny! Try to beat the old record
Am I doing this right?
So far so good. http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/tom-vh-chat-noon-espncom this is where we got it last time
Oh dear lord that looks terrible.
I'd follow BiSB lead and post videos and see how much they narrow them.
O-Line doesn't block for Denard?
how the rest of our schedule will break pretty favorably for us, actually. By now, ND is ranked highly enough that beating them (which is still highly possible) makes us look good, MSU and Nebraska have enough time to recover their rankings that it will look good if we beat them, but they are clearly not invincible, and Northwestern might even be ranked by the time we play them. So, if things go our way, we might have a top 10 ranking again by the end of the year.
2011 - 102 Carries for 680 Yards, 6.7 YPC
2012 - 103 Carries for 577 Yards, 5.6 YPC
The predominant theme here is that last year we didn't play Alabama at the beginning of the year last year.
I might actually change up your comparisons a bit: '12 Bama > '11 ND, '12 UMass = '11 EMU, and '12 AFA = '11 WMU (with AFA being run-based and WMU being pass-based).
I think you make a very strong point about how last year's team started off very shaky but improved greatly over the course of the season. But I think you are crazy if you are suggesting that Devin Gardner is a step up at WR from Junior Hemingway.
For some reason I think our collective subconscious gave Junior credit for every catch against ND and for whatever reason people wanted to embrace him as a superstar difference maker for last year's team. He also had a great bowl game and we all tend to remember the last thing we saw.
During the regular season last year he caught 2.66 balls per game for an average of 19.9 ypc and 53 ypg. He caught 2 TDs in 12 games.
This year so far Devin Garnder has caught 2.66 balls per game for an average of 19.4 ypc and 51.7 ypg. He's caught 3 TDs already.
Hemingway did that as a 5th year senior who had put up near identical numbers the year before. Gardner has done it playing WR for the very first time in his life. Throw in an improved Jeremy Gallon, the emergence of Funchess (already more than half our TE output from a year ago in 2 games), and remember that the career leader among active B1G receivers is still on the team and this is a much improved passing game.
Hmm. Well, I guess you're right. Junior had a lot of big catches in 2011. I guess I don't see any reason DG can't do the same.
Admittedly, I don't know enough about the nuances of WR play to really appreciate the differences between Hemingway and Gardner.
and I appreciate the posive attitude. That said, I think we will have our hands full with both ND and Sparty. I will be ecstatic if I am wrong.
I think its partly fear of the unknown. Last year, even if we weren't playing that well, you figured that eventually a guy like Martin or Van Bergen was too good to allow the line play to continue on so poorly, because they'd proven in the past to be quality players. Whereas this year, the line is filled with question marks who have only shown brief flashes of their high recruiting rank (Campbell, Roh, Black).
Also could be the hangover effect of a few seasons of regression prior to 2011. We watched our teams perform worse as the year went on and couldn't keep up with teams that naturally progressed. 2011 saw us get better as the year moved on. Do I think we will win the rest of our games? No. Do I think we can be very competitive in all of them? Yes.
Thanks for bringing up some of those numbers and drawing that comparison. I did not realize that similarity. I am still worried about our defensive line but that is all based on just watching real time. I guess it also speaks to how well our coaches did throughout the season last year. There is still plenty of time and I hope our three DLine coaches can work some magic. Of course like many people I beleived that during this season we would have a better team with a worse record than last year and unfortunately that is still likely the case.
I'm fine with it. Florida, ND, and Stanford should have all jumped us with their wins. Meanwhile only Va Tech and MSU should have fallen behind us with their losses. 3 go ahead of us, 2 fall behind, means we fall one. Makes perfect sense to me.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was expecting after I looked at all of the results from this weekend.
At least Wisconsin is ranked in the coaches poll. That's all that matters.
for this week's poll to come out
jumped us because of beating top ten teams, meanwhile we passed MSU and VT. However, USC didn't fall below us beacuse they were ranked so high. It actually makes sense when you look at where these teams came from.
but haven"t played like it. Being highly ranked in pre season definitely has its benefits.
I'd say stanford and notre dame deserved to jump us (while Va tech fell below)
All the teams ahead of Michigan haven't lost yet, save USC. I'm surprised Notre Dame got such a big bump.
You are? But this year, it's the RETURN TO GLORY TM! It's on, for sure, this year. For sure.
Amazing. Thank you. Bless BK.
That Willingham covers slays me.
Willingham's "amazing" first season consisted of their insanely lucky victory over us, another fortunate win against MSU in which the two pairs of defenders collided with each other instead of making a tackle one Notre Dame's game-winning play, a home loss to a 3-4 conference record Boston College and two season ending blow outs to USC (44-13) and NC State (28-6).
Its only amazing that they didn't finish 7-5.
You missed the George O'Leary era at ND. It had so much promise...
The ND jump makes sense. They're 3-0 and just demolished a team ranked in the top 10 on the road. Sure, we can argue that MSU didn't deserve to be ranked that highly in the first place, but given that they were, it looks like a very impressive win.
That is crap though because USC lost to the current number 9 while UM lost to the current number 1.
You honestly can't make that arguement. USC lost by a touchdown on the road and were in the game until the last series. Michigan lost 41-14 in a "nuetral" site game and got beat in every aspect of the game.
Let's take off the the maize n' blue goggles for a sec. Do you honestly believe for one second that if our Wolverines stepped on the field right now with USC, we would win? If you do, well then you still didn't take off those goggles. I know football rankings don't really have any common sense logic to them early in the season, but for many logical reasons, it makes perfect sense for USC to be ranked ahead of us.
I'm not sure that we would lose.
I think we underrate our team a bit, because we know so much about them. Alabama and LSU are literally the only teams that I think we could not beat at any point during this season.
It is not the goggles. It is the fact that Alabama is head and shoulders above Stanford.
I'd rank Northwestern over Nebraska. Nebraska lost to UCLA and has beaten up on two non-BCS teams. Northwestern has beaten 3 BCS teams. I think they've earned a sliver of trust at this point.
If we beat Notre Dame next week I think we'll just jump the teams that just jumped us. They deserved to climb based on their performances.
When we beat Notre Dame
Didn't want to jinx anything
|WEEK 3||WEEK 4|
|8||South Carolina||West Virginia|
|15||Kansas State||Kansas State|
I'm surprised that Ohio dropped four spots. Granted, they didn't look all that great, but they did beat a BCS-conference opponent (Cal). Not that I'm shedding any tears for them...
Florida is this weeks overrated winner. They got way too much of a jump for beating last weeks overrated winner, Tennessee. That's okay, when we win @ ND next week we'll be riding the hype train.
Edit: Holy Cow. Ohio won convincingly and dropped 5 spots. Lol
Only if by "won convincingly" you mean "scored the winning TD due to an opponent's blown coverage."
Cal had a long TD called back due to a fairly bullshitty holding penalty and ended up having to settle for a field goal attempt that of course their kicker missed because he hates me.
And relied on three missed field goals too.
I meant against a convincing opponent, I guess. Compared to what, though? Clemson scraped by Auburn at home, and has given up 53 points through 3 games against the likes of Ball State and Furman, Oregon has only played 3 of the weakest cupcakes they could find, yet have allowed an embarrassing 73 points in 3 games, and West Virginia has only played 2 games against Marshall and James Madison, yet they've been tagged for 46 at home in 2 games. I know we like to be realists about our conference, but seriously. These other schools couldn't stop a cow from wandering through their defenses for a touchdown, yet they're in the top 10. South Carolina and Florida aren't any better, either.
oregon: all 3 of their games were blowouts at halftime. 50 of those 73 pts were scored in the second half; primarily against the backups.
WVa: again, only 13 of those 46 were scored in the first half.
So, I wouldn't draw any conclusions about their D based on that. Combined, those 2 teams have given up only 36 pts in 5 games during the first half against the first teamers. That projects to just 14 pts per 4 quarters.
I watched those games too. Theres no excuse for that much scoring at home against OVC schools. We blew out an FBS school, but how much did they tag our freshmen for in the 2nd half?
Edit: I'll expand a little. Nebraska blew out the same Sun Belt Arkansas State team but their suspect defense and backups only got tagged for 13.
couldn't stop a cow from wandering through their defenses for a touchdown,
Depends on pad level. It is not easy to stop a cow that keeps the correct pad level.
Wtf? ( regarding Ohio's dominance)
Doesn't surprise me. They beat a bad UMass team, and that's about it. ND is #11, so winning there on the road and UM will be back on the top end of the rankings.
dropped 4 spots. Top B10 team at #16.
I know, right? Like what the fuck has Clemson done? West Virginia has only played 2 games, too. Yet, like Oregon, they've allowed cupcakes to tag them for an alarming amount on defense. Lol
I had a literal LOL this morning when Gerry Dinardo tweeted that MSU's OOC schedule prepared them best out of all Legends teams for the conference slate. These are the types of people voting in these polls. That is all you need to know.
This doesn't seem ridiculous to me (assuming that you're really talking about UM vs. MSU).
Both UM and MSU play Notre Dame, so we'll call that even. Aside from that, we've played an NFL team, the quirkiest offense in college football, and a Pop Warner team. This, to me, is not optimal nonconference scheduling. It's much more difficult than MSU's schedule, but it doesn't sound like that's what Dinardo was saying.
We climbed one spot in the Coaches' Poll - http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/usatpoll.htm
MSU, Nebraska and Wisconsin are the other ranked Big Ten teams in this one.
I'm surprised ND is only #15 in the new coaches' poll. I guess the coaches are tired of all the Return to Glory hype.
They probably also think Brian Kelly is a bit of a jerk.
So Virginia Tech drops out, but Wisconsin (who really should be 0-3 on the year against bad competition) stays at 22?
Fuck you Coaches.....just Fuck you
I don't see the AP poll as anything more than a novelty. The one that is higher up is the coaches poll since it factors for 1/3 of the BCS formula.
But polls don't matter.
The goal is to win the B1G Championship and beat ohio. This Is Michigan.
Georgia is ranked #5 for beating:
Florida Atlantic 56-20
Missouri barely scraped by unranked Arizona State last night 24-20.
They're not good.
The only rationale I can see for these ranking switches (particularly Georgia over Oklahoma) is TV schedules, but even then, do all voters have ESPN interests in mind?
Or it's because they're ESS EE SEE.
When do you think ULM gets their SEC invite?
What is this White Lot you speak of? A place to watch games while tailgating or is this your tv at your tailgate?
We did that in 06...now they halt tailgating in white field once game starts. It sucks
Polls shouldn't even exist until October. Right now rankings are meaningless.
Will mean a lot in the polls. Alabama is starting to look like a juggernaut after demolishing another preseason top 10 team. Sure Arkanas lost to Louisiana-Monroe, but their performance against Auburn shows they're a decent football team.
Perhaps it just shows that Auburn is a poor team? If I had to guess I would say ULM has proven that John L. Smith is still John L. Smith and that Gene Chizik is Gene Chizik. ULM is still a bad football team though.
Auburn + Gene Chizik - Gus Malzahn - Cam Newton = Ole Miss
Notre Dame + (Brian Kelly - Charlie Weis - Ty Willingham - Bob Davie) × ACC ÷ (Tommy Rees + Everett Golson + Andrew Hendrix) = Return to Glory
Yeah Bama pulled their starters at the start of the 3rd quarter (They were even using backs and QBs and receivers that they didn't put out against us on that last Bama drive!)... While we kept Denard in until the middle. What is that saying if Bama vs. Arkansas is more of a blowout than Michigan vs. UMass? One, that Michigan is not very good, sure, but it also says that Bama is freaking unstoppable. It's not like losing Tyler Wilson meant that Arkansas couldn't play defense, but man, they couldn't play defense to save their lives... Lacy was just running them over along with Yeldon.
We're not going to win the National Title. Beat our rivals, win the B1G, and things will take care of themselves.
We may just have the good fortune of seeing the rematch rematch rematch of bama-lsu for the national championship this year. Can't wait
After last year's ratings there is no way that happens again. They would let FSU, UWV or a 1 loss PAC-12 before they did that again.
If you use this logic next week then after Michigan beats ND they will jump into the top 10.
Last year we improved dramatically at the end of the year. That isn't a given this year, so while I appreciate the stats that give perspective to the panic, I remain skeptical of a similar improvement since last year could in part be attributed to new schemes and new coaches. We got the benefit of a lot of luck last year, especially against ND and VT. I will let the games play out, but I am neither panicking nor am I overly optimistic about the team. ND will be a tough challenge, especially on the road. They beat MSU in the trenches and so far they haven't been bleeding turnovers. I keep hearing how we need to establish other playmakers, but in big games I'd still love to see Denard run as much as possible and to set up the pass off of the threat of him running. I HATE running power from the I-Form and play action passes that by design end up with two people in Denard's face. As deadly as the offense can be I think Borges wastes 10-15 plays a game.
I actually feel like this year's team has even more room for in-season improvement than last year's team did. We are playing what, like 12 freshmen? Last season, the only freshmen I recall being significant contributors were Morgan, Ryan, Countess, Clark, and Beyer.
Except that I think last year's improvements were not freshmen getting better but experienced players getting the new system. The freshmen will probably improve but I don't think the jump will be as big.
That's a good point. But I think if you look back over the past couple seasons, historically we had a problem defensively in even gettting into the right pre-snap alignment. To me, that's the type of issue you have when your players are unfamiliar with the system. This season, it seems the area most in need of improvement is with individual technique on the defensive fron. It probably isn't realistic to expect a player like Campbell or Roh to be a whole lot better in November than they are right now. But a guy like Pipkins, Clark, or Ross could improve significantly in that time frame.
I HATE running power from the I-Form and play action passes that by design end up with two people in Denard's face. As deadly as the offense can be I think Borges wastes 10-15 plays a game.
Believe it or not, Denard has a much higher career passer rating when under center than when in the gun. It's true that our running game is the opposite (better from the shotgun than under center), but in order for both strengths (I-form passing, shotgun running) to work, you can't telegraph them by formation. You have to do some running out of the I and some passing out of the gun. They may seem "wasted" plays but they keep the defense honest.
compromise and run from the pistol the rest of the year! indiana dominated the big ten with that!!!!!
[I]n big games I'd still love to see Denard run as much as possible and to set up the pass off of the threat of him running.
Which games are you considering "big games?" I'll go out on limb and guess that they include: ND, MSU, Neb., and OSU. Well, the problem with your hope to see Denard run as much as possible, is that these teams are likely to stack the box to keep Denard in check. Add to that the fact that, at least to this point, the OL hasn't been getting a whole lot of push, Denard might not have a lot of success.
I understand what you're thinking, but against better defenses, Borges is going to have to loosen them up significantly by passing and getting the non-Denard play makers the ball in space down field and/or on the edges, IMO. You talk about the fact that you think Borges "wastes 10-15 plays a game," well can you think of anything more wasteful than slamming Denard into a defense that is keying on him exclusively? This is the argument that raged in here following the Bama game. The "run Denard" crowd acted like it doing so was some magic formula that Borges simply forgot about, and discounted the fact that Bama's defense just took away that weapon. We're not going to see a defense that good again, but the concept is still the same.
Against ND, for example, their defensive backfield is their weakness, and their front 7 is their strength. Right now, it doesn't seem prudent to play to their strength. Yes, Denard running is Michigan's strength, but they know this as well as anyone, I think we need to use this against them, and make them crowd the line, and expose their DB's to the Two Devins, et. al.
HATE running power from the I-Form and play action passes that by design end up with two people in Denard's face.
Well, the problem is -- at least statistically -- these plays have been the most successful. I love these plays as they give Denard the run-pass option, and they expose the mismatches that guys like Fuchess present. You have to run it out of that set enough to make the defense respect it, but I think it's a great new wrinkle that really didn't seem all that effective last year, but seems to be this year thus far.
As far as improvement goes, I think one of the things that you have to remember about the underclassmen is that they are "Hoke's guys" NOT the remnants of RR's classes, i.e., at least on paper, they're a lot more talented. These kids are already starting to pass the upperclassmen on the depth chart. Last year's improvement was centered, IMO, around MM and RVB. These two were highly intelligent seniors that were recruited by Carr, not RR. I don't know that that means all that much, but I think it is a statement of overall talent. I think by the end of the season we're going to see most of the freshmen having taken over where they can -- they're just that talented.
of course that will change after Oregon hangs 50 on them, but for now the fans in Tucson have to be pretty happy.
And a fan in Section 1
They'll drop some points but the ducks don't have a defense that will allow them to crush Arizona. Arizona has the better QB right now. Oregon 45 Zona 29
Wouldn't say at all. The goal is the Big Ten conference Championship and a shot at the Rose Bowl but a nice consolation would be another BCS at large berth (we are obviously not there and hopefully won't have to worry about that). In order to get that nod you need a good poll ranking.
So the polls are mostly insignificant right now if you don't project to be the top 2 but not wholly so.
Would you rather be cheering for Denard and this team, or would you rather have to face Denard on an opposing team?
ND moved up because they thoroughly manhandled grossly overrated MSU. Michigan looked terrible to the voters the first two games, and squashing a tomato can wasn't enough to convince anyone that they are really good. When you add in the media's Big Ten-bashing, it could have been a lot worse.
The only time the polls really count is the end of the year, anyway.
That seems accurate to me
Wake me up when the polls start to matter.