Pending the outcome of the Oklahoma game, it's conceivable that LSU, Alabama and Arkansas will be 1,2 and 3 this week, basically sealing an all-SEC championship.
But who else is credible at this point?
Well it definitely isn't a "national" championship when both teams come from the same conference. LSU already proved themselves superior to Bama (at Bama - no excuses), so it would be nice to see them play someone else.
In 2006, the two lines of thought were: no rematch, and you can't play in the NC if you didn't win your conference.
Kansas State wins 35-7 over Oklahoma in the Big12 championship game yet the sooners still play in the BCS Championship game.
Yes, someone also pointed out Nebraska in 2001 fit this criteria as well. That said, neither of those games were rematches of games played earlier in the season.
What I was pointing out, however, was that in 2006, the widespread opinion of the voters (likely influenced by an SEC media campaign to get Florida in the championship game) was that Michigan did not deserve a spot because they didn't win the Big 10 (despite their only loss being by 3 on the road to the #1 team in the country). Obviously, since 2006, the SEC has changed their tune.
furthermore, how great of a rematch would it have been in 2006... LSU - Alabama will probably be close the second time as well, but that will be b/c no one will score.
It would have been great for us, but we weren't the best two teams in the country. I hope everyone remembers how the national championship and Rose Bowl went that year.
LSU plays Arkansas next week, while Alabama plays Auburn in the Iron Bowl. Nothing "sealed" yet.
Better than a rematch IME.
Fuck them and every media member who rallied against UM-OSU rematch in 2006
You hit it right on the head.
I've been watching the games today dreading that Alabama comes out on top. Here's to hoping Oklahoma can pull it out at Baylor and end up leaping over them the same way Florida did with us in '06.
if our only loss was by 3 on the road at the #1 team in the country and we didn't get a rematch then nobody should get a rematch. No-bo-dy. Nobody!
And as for LSU-Alabama we had that game a few weeks ago.
Any team can still beat any team. There should be no rematch. Either Lsu or Alabama could still get torched by a great team they haven't seen yet. Remember this rating system that sets up the nc game is asinine. Just bc Arkansas has been creeping up by winning doesn't mean they're near the 3rd best team. And IMO Alabama should lose a few spots in the polls for giving up 21 points, under 10 yards away from 28 points, and over 300 yards rushing to Georgia Southern, an FCS team, at home this week. Shows they're not the #2 team no matter how close Lsu/Alabama was, which may have been just match up.
This ranking system is crap and comes down to eyes of voters who have biases about conferences that rarely play each other. And then the rankings dont support the outcomes. Remember very mediocre Penn st only lost like 24-11 to Alabama. Neither bama nor Arkansas should be in the nc game.
Honestly, when it comes to bama, I'd like to play them right now. I think we have a strong chance of beating them, especially while we still have Martin, Molk, and these seniors.
Your signature says it all.
It's pretty clear they're the best. I'd only be really pissed if LSU lost in the SEC championship and still got into the NC. That would be a similar situation. They played early in the season so it's only mildly infuriating instead of Why Crable Why level infuriating
it's possible for them to lose to Georgia, one of only two SEC teams to actually play competitive football against Kentucky, rather than playing can we put up more points than kentucky's basketball team -or- let's play football our team is going to count in dog years.
Agreed/ Everyone who votes for Alabama this year and railed against us in '06 can go fuck themselves.
Except those people were right? OSU got destroyed and so did we. I have no problem with an "SEC bias", honestly. They have proven time and time again that they are the most dominant conference. It wasn't necessarily evident in 2006. It damn sure is now.
because had they voted for a rematch - which they really should have. Had USC won out there would have been no controversy, but there is no way they should have jumped Florida - none of this "Big Ten is the worst, most overrated conference ever!" mentality would have ever surfaced.
Michigan would have played OSU and the teams would have finished 1 and 2 in the rankings and no one would be any wiser that they were both frauds.
Couple that with Penn State beating Tennessee and Wisconsin beating Arkansas that year and you have the Big Ten with 3 teams in the Top 5 and two victories over the SEC's next best teams...yeah the Big Ten would have been known as the best conference in college football.
Instead, 32-11 and 41-14 happened.
LSU beat Alabama at Alabama. I know it was a close game. I know according to the "eye test" that they might appear like the two best teams. But LSU already proved they could beat them even at Alabama. It is the same argument I had against LSU replaying Oregon, who they smoked on a neurtral field.
Now if Michigan can lose a close game to OSU at OSU and not be rewarded with a rematch, even though according the to "eye test" they were the best two teams, then someone else should get a shot.
IMO, the MNC should be LSU (if they win out) against the next highest rated opponent that they haven't beat already. Be that Oklahoma, VT, Houston, I don't care, give some one a shot that hasn't proven that they will lose to LSU.
This SEC lovefest is making me sick. Yes, they are a very good football conference, but the only way to truly know this is for them to play other conferences. They don't. The Big12 imo is the best conference this year, and I don't think the B1G and Pac12 are as bad as everyone thinks.
If this comes to fruition, I will boycott watching the BCS title game by doing something particularly anti-SEC -- like reading a book.
A team that does not win its own conference...let alone play in their conference championship should no way in hell be able to play for the National Championship.
They shouldn't. But they sometimes do. Remember Nebraska in 2001? They lost their final game to Colorado 62-36, didn't win or play for the Big 12 title, still went to the national championship game.
Nebraska then fell to Miami 14-37 in the Rose Bowl, but the controversy of these events led to more modifications to the BCS formula, which followed a pattern of seasonal tweaks dating back nearly to when the BCS system was implemented.
So I am assuming the BCS changed their scoring system because of this...i wonder how much this effects the BCS scoring.
I believe the changes made to the BCS modified the credit a team receives for margin of victory, capping it at around 21 pts. The computers were giving too much credit to teams that were running up the score. I remember those loaded Miami teams mercilessly embarassing their opponents.
and got pounded my miami (ytm)
As much as I hate the SEC, and as much as I agree with what you are saying, who else is there... I hope somehow a #2 emerges that can even be argueably as good as Alabama. And even if Oklahoma wins, they aren't looking good.
Question: Doesn't both Oregon and Oklahoma losing increase our chances of a BCS bowl?
Oregon is still going to the Pac 12 CG (barring a shocking loss to Oregon State) to play an awful ASU team or an awful UCLA team, so the Oregon loss doesn't do a whole lot without other really surprising results.
The Oklahoma loss on the other hand is great, because the loser of Oklahoma State/Oklahoma is probably out now. I think at this point, beat OSU and we're in.
There are a couple weeks of games left and Ark @ LSU & Bama @ Auburn are next week.
Woundn't a rematch (if lsu and alabama end up 1 and 2) in the nation title game be BAD for collage football?
Seems like I remeber someone saying this in 2006...
Not bad ...
Pac 12 should only get 1 with Oregon's 2nd loss
Big 12 only 1 with OkSt loss (and potential [probable?]) Oklahoma loss
If Oregon wins out they get the PAC 12 auto which leaves a one loss, top 5, Stanford (assuming they win out) as the likely second from the PAC 12. A long way to say, I don't think Oregon's loss necessarily means that the PAC 12 only get 1 into the BCS.
That being said, the OU/OSU Big 12 losses help our chance a lot. The non-auto will have at least 2 losses with one or two of the losses coming very late in the year.
I can't believe that i'm agreeing with Lou Holtz at this point, but if LSU beats Arkansas, then just give them the NC if you're going to re-match. They would have clearly demonstrated at that point they would be the best in the nation. If you're not going to give someone else a shot, then what the hell is the point. Also, the self-fufilling prophecy would be ridiculous; OMG SEC is the best because they win NC's! Let's put two SEC teams in the NC! OMG the SEC won another NC! OMG SEC is the best because they win NCs!
I laughed as I read your self-fulfilling prophecy... and I cried because of how realistic that narrative could be in a couple weeks.
You know who the happiest team in the land is this Saturday? Oklahoma State.
Not quite. Okie State needed oklahoma to win tonight. Now a victory in the bedlam game won't mean nearly as much.
I'm pretty sure that would be Arkansas/Va Tech. OSU still is pisssed over their loss last night.
Stanford will probably move up to 4th in the BCS rankings. So if they beat ND and LSU beats Arkansas, Stanford will probably end up 3rd in the BCS which guarantees them a BCS berth.
VaTech - they might be 5th in the rankings and can quietly start making talk about being in the BCS title should be beat Virginia and Clemson.
perhaps the 5 weeks of collective apathy leading up to the national championship game will remind people how stupid the bowl system is.
Just being a realest here, but LSU and Bama are the two best teams in the country. Question is, what if Arkansas beats LSU? Does Arkansas play LSU in the national championship or does Bama?
What if Ark beats LSU, which of Ark, LSU, and Bama goes to the SEC champ game? I believe the tie-break is highest BCS ranking. Let's say Ark beats LSU and jumps both teams in BCS rankings and then goes on to lose to Georgia in the SEC championship- then what happens? LSU and Bama could still potentially end up #1 and #2 and play each other in the MNC while neither of them even won the SEC West, let alone the SEC. The BCS is stupid.
Oklahoma choke job.
Fcuk Oklahoma (and the Big 12 for that matter).
As we learned from the Nebraska experience today: they're just not that good.
Calls the timeout, tempting the 2nd-most electrifying player to run down the field and deny them overtime.
Big Game Bob
An atom bomb just went off in the big 12
we might have even gotten some NC chatter. sheesh. the BCS is stupid
If we'd beaten MSU (and lost to Iowa) we'd control our destiny to the B1G chamionship game against either a flawed Wiscy or a no-offense PSU, and we'd DEFINITELY be getting NC game chatter.
Borges, I love you this week, but damn that was a dumb call on 4th and inches. sigh.
Interesting how Alabama has played only 3 teams all season with winning records (and Florida had to beat Furman today to make it to 6-5.)
Arkansas has played only 3 winning teams as well.
But they're SEC teams so...whatever.
Listen I hate the sec hype as much as the next guy not an sec fan but bama and lsu are the two best teams in the country, penn st got run at home and only has one loss in the big ten, there is just so much more talent on those teams, and lsu was in a dogfight with them after running oregon, the sec gets to much hype but this year at least they are the best teams, and the two best teams are supposed to play in the championship, did anyone complain when the giants got another shot at the pats in the championship? two best teams play for the championship and this year thats two sec teams, its ok if that happens.
Actually I complained and I still do. The Patriots were the best team in the NFL that year and it wasn't close.
Wisconsin beat psu
Mich beat osu
Wisconsin/msu loser will have three loses
Winner rose bowl michigan goes at large bcs
If we finish top 14 of the bcs and have at least 9 wins we get in :)
Michigan clemson orange bowl :)
But fcuk, Clemson? Seriously.
I do not like Clemson.
Then again, we destroy that team.
Guess I have to root for Auburn..
and even without a conference championship game, Stoops found a way to blow it...
Ok, three things - Go Blue!
Prediction: LSU will play ALA for the MNC. The winner will play ARK, who will then play UGA. The winner of that will play AUB before playing UF and then USC. Whoever loses that game will go on to play the winner of the Pac-12 or B1G, but only after they play Vandy, UT, Ole Miss and UK.
The SEC, the SEC network (CBS) and all the SEC mouth pieces led by Dickwad Danielson shrieked to high heaven how we couldn't have a repeat and no one wanted a repeat.
Can ya hear me now ???
I say just throw Houston to the tigers and watch them get murdered. At the very least it would quiet the discussion of non-BCS schools thinking they can compete.
that is easily the best non rematch argument so far.
How pissed would Boise St. And TCU be if Houston goes to the title game? Those two teams have been undefeated several times. Houston goes undefeated one time and goes.
Boise should probably be most pissed that we yoinked Matt Wile from them. If their kicker makes that very makeable FG then they probably have a shot at playing for the NC (deja vu all over again). I think that they probably have as good of a chance as anybody at beating LSU, especially since they will have over a month to get healthy.
Somebody else mentioned this above, but let's say #3 Arkansas beats #1 LSU, do they jump Bama to the #1 spot and play for the SEC Championship? Does Bama go to #1? What happens if Bama or Arkansas loses to Georgia in the SEC Championship Game and Oklahoma beats Oklahoma State?
LSU - 1 loss (at Arkansas, does not win division)
Alabama - 1 loss (vs LSU)
Arkansas - 2 losses (at Alabama, Georgia)
Oklahoma - 2 losses (vs Texas Tech, at Baylor)
Okie State - 2 losses (at Iowa State, at Oklahoma)
Oregon - 2 losses (at LSU, vs USC)
Virginia Tech - 1 loss (vs Clemson)
Stanford - 1 loss (vs Oregon)
, that could happen. I feel a tremendous hot mess coming at the end of this year and everybody going, okay that's enough it's time for a playoff.
This is exactly why I hope 'Bama loses the Iron Bowl, LSU falls to Arkansas, and the one loss teams win out. Then we'll have a shit storm brewing. Like the Joker, I love chaos.
I hate the SEC, it's just a visceral reaction. But after 5 straight NC's, they've earned the benefit of the doubt if there is no clear non-Alabama #2 out there.
Besides, this benefits us in two ways:
- If we make it to the BCS, we are not going to have to play Alabama.
- If Alabama wins the NC, a bunch of their players will go pro. Good for us next year in Dallas.
Lol lol lol i hate bama sec with pasion but as long as were benefiting from there wins then go bama
Putting the hate of the SEC confrence aside (I acutally dont hate them at all I mean why hate?) Bama And LSU are by far the two best teams in the country, lets not kid ourselves. It wouldnt be fair for them to not both be in the championship game if they both end up winning the rest of there games. They borth clearly deseve it and there both clearly by far the two best teams in the country. Its the truth. End of story.
why hate? have you ever heard of oversigning?
have much faith in Alabama anymore. So no not clearly the best two teams. The only good team they've beaten this year is Arkansas, and honestly I haven't thought Arkansas was that good all year.
Let's put it another way: Alabama is technically 3-1 against teams with winning records this year. I say technically bc one is 6-5 Florida who will prob lose next weekend to fsu and end 6-6. The other two wins are against an Arkansas team I call questionable and Penn st. Not a signature win.
But the fact is no team can complain about not making the MNC besides LSU at this point (or I guess Houston). If you want to play for the national title, win all your games, that simple. Or in better terms, play someone decent and win all your games. If you lose one, that's your fault. Don't lose one and you have nothing to complain about.
I really dont give a crap what Alabama or anyone else in the SEC does this year...all I care about is Alabama opening 0-1 next year.
It's just time to throw Houston to the wolves. Maybe Case Keenum really brings it.
It's funny how we (UM) couldn't get a rematch in the title game with Ohio after losing by three to them in the Shoe. However, Bama can when they score six and lose to LSU at their own place. The SEC has magical powers on the voters.
Ok State may still be very plausible. If it wins out, most or all of the computer rankings will place it 2nd.
Splitting of the human polls might well keep it over a second SEC team.
Exactly - why is everyone counting out OSU(NTOSU)? Yeah, they have a bad loss against Iowa State - but it was a close game, on the road. They're clearly a great team, they will probably win there conference, and they haven't played LSU yet. Would be a good game with lots of NATIONAL (not regional) interest.
If you don't win your conference, you shouldn't play in the NC game. Period. End of story. There aren't enough noncon games (and none late in the season) to justify any other approach. Conference championships are the closest thing we have to a playoff.
i don't remember us getting embarassed in that game? but OSU did get embarassed in their game.
It was 32-18 in the 2007 Rose Bowl. I don't think that the game was all that close.
OK, but if the argument is that a rematch would have been wrong because otherwise both teams would not have been exposed as being overrated, the same argument still applies. Alabama has looked good, but for all of the talk about how great the SEC is, they don't have a lot of quality wins. They beat Arkansas (whose only quality win is South Carolina), and they beat a Penn State team that has not played the top three teams in the conference (Michigan, MSU and Wisconsin).
Aside from assuming that the SEC is the best before anybody plays anybody, and rewarding the SEC every time that they beat each other, what have we really learned? Bama amassed a whopping 6 points at home against LSU. Do we really want to see LSU beat Bama 5-3 in the NC game? If the SEC is really that good, match up Bama and LSU against other conference champions and let them prove it.
A team that doesnt win their Conference...let alone not even make their Conference Championship game....SHOULD NOT PLAY IN THE NC...you just cant sneak into a National Championship.
(Insert comment about Houston being undefeated and nobody giving a shit)
The knock on these undefeated teams in crappy conferences isn't that they aren't good teams, but that they don't play teams who can legitimately put up a fight against them every week.
What would be fun to see is if LSU losses to Ark next week, bama loses to auburn, then have Ark lose to Geogia in the SEC title game - then who the hell plays in the NC?
Sounds good to me - would be nice to not have the SEC win it - maybe we should do something about that next year
Houston and Boise State
We all think that the SEC is great, and I'll admit that I think LSU and Bama are the two best in the nation - they both convincingly beat a contender from another major conference. That said, how many B12-SEC games were there? The only one I can think of off the top of my head was Arkansas' one point escape against A&M.
Past those three, I think the entire SEC is garbage this year. USC and UGA are only ranked because they've managed to avoid LSU-Bama, and UGA avoided Arkansas too. Both of those teams will be exposed against their in-state ACC rivals next weekend.
If you're not the best team in your conference, you can't be the best team in the country. Especially when you lose at home by 3. I wouldn't have supported an Oregon-LSU rematch either (now that it's a moot point), just because in College Football, with so many teams and so few games, we need as many new data points as we can get in determining a champion.
Some folks say "playoffs." I don't want a playoff - but I want there to be two additional rules regarding making it to the BCS title game. Rule #1 - you have to win your conference. #2, you must not have lost to the other team that is ranked in the top 2. You had your chance to prove you were better than them. You failed. Every week is a playoff, and that's what makes this sport so great.
Agree with your two rules - especially #1 - even as a homer in 2006, I understood the "didn't even win your conference argument" - what pissed me off that year was getting jumped in the polls based on Meyers whining to the media
I think the only thing that pissed me off more than Urban Meyer talking his team into the MNC game was Carr not doing the same. While I respect Carr for his high character, I wish he would have slummed it up wih Meyer in that instance.
Agree, Carr did not need to whine like Meyer, but he certainly should have utilized the media to make our case and not stayed quiet. I know that he could have in a classy manner, while urban obviously could not.
I will be doing something else that night, like taking a 4 hour dump.
Well now that it appears inevitable for an SEC championship it's probably not going to happen since conventional wisdom and college football specifically so not mesh. Also Stanford may still be viable if they hang on. I think a rematch would get terrible ratings.
is a joke. Its always been about making sure an SEC school gets in. They've changed the computer formulas every time an SEC school didn't make it.
Its bullcrap. and yeah, like an original poster said fuck them for railing against a UM/OSU rematch in 2006.
I think that it will either be Stanford or Houston in the NCG.
Currently, you have 2 undefeated teams - LSU and Houston - and 4 single-loss teams - Bama, Arkansas, Stanford, and BSU. LSU and Arkansas play next weekend, so you either make Houston the only undefeated team, or Arkansas drops out of the discussion. If Houston is the only undefeated team, I don't see how you can pick 2 single-loss teams over them. If LSU wins, then I think that you choose another team that hasn't played LSU yet. If you are going the mid-major route, then probably Houston. If you are going the BCS-conference-team route, then it's Stanford.
I think it really comes down to whether the game is to have what is viewed as the best 2 teams playing each other, even if they already played, or if it is meant to try to make sure that the best team in the country is found. I think after 2006, it's clear it is the latter, and therefore, an all-SEC NCG won't happen.
While I'm not excited about a possible Bama/LSU rematch, Stanford has some holes. One is the same argument people are making about Bama. If Oregon beats Oregon St, Stanford won't even have won its own division, let alone its conference. The other big hole to me is Stanford's schedule is really weak. Their non-conference slate was a joke, and the Pac-12 outside of Stanford, Oregon and USC is not very good.
I was tired when I posted that, so I missed OSU in the single-loss teams. If OSU wins against Oklahoma, then you might have to give them the #2 spot still. I still think it will be OSU, Stanford, or Houston. If winning your conference is a requirement, then OSU or Houston. If OSU loses to Oklahoma, I don't see how you can't put Houston in that game.
It never would have occured to me that a team from the SEC could sneak into a national championship game....
That being said, I think Stanford or Houston have the best shot of being "the other team" in this matchup. God, I can't believe I just said that about Houston....
I hope Arkansas beats LSU and Auburn beats Alabama. Then I hope Georgia beats Arkansas in the SEC championship. Shit would hit the fan.
Even if the consensus top 5 teams were from the SEC, i still don't think you can do an all SEC-championship game.
The BCS deserves to have nobody be undefeated and about eight or nine teams finish with one loss each while the SEC gets both berths in the BS Sham-pionship game. If enough teams feel they have legitimate gripes about being left out, it might get more of the coaches and presidents on the side of having a playoff to determine a legitimate champion.
It really seems that the only people who don't want a playoff are the bowls and the presidents. Both commissioners and AD's aren't allowed to have a different opinion than their presidents, or at least can't represent their schools with that opinion, so one can reasonably deduce that the presidents may be getting some under-the-table payments from the bowls.