when in Ireland, drink like the Irish do...
to play football, not to play trumpet
when in Ireland, drink like the Irish do...
I'm sure all those times Tate and the rest of the younger guys were spotted at Ricks, Scorekeepers, and the Fifth Quarter the past two years they were only drinking Apple Juice.
A) There's no evidence to prove that any underage players on Michigan were drinking. A lot of bars in Ann Arbor let 18 year olds in quite often.
B) They weren't arrested
Read through any of the stories on the board of the encounters people have had with Tate and the other underage players. There are stories on the board of playing beer pong with them, hanging with them at frat parties, house parties and at bars.
A house party got busted at Notre Dame or in South Bend. Big fucking deal. We're just lucky that the AAPD rarely break up fraternity parties and if they break up a house party, they're more likely just to send people home then start asking everyone for their ID. Also, if you do get busted for underage drinking in AA, 9 times out of 10 they write you a ticket and send you on your way, it doesn't end up in the newspaper or defined as an arrest.
You're making a big deal out of nothing.
Hopefully it is a big deal to the ND coaching staff and these players are suspended for the first 2 games of the season.
I could be mistaken, but there's not a starter amongst those guys. It wouldn't make a big difference. Then again, why look a gift horse in the mouth?
Filer and Montana are the closest thing to starter, Jones maybe later in the year
A) They are in college, which is evidence enough. Besides, i have seen some of those kids drink at the bars. Everyone saw Ryan Mallett there. Come on and join reality
B) So all the other schools that were spending extra time 'stretching' are guilty of going over the NCAA time limits like we were
Welcome to reality. This is a non-story
So, what you are saying is that the drinking isn't the problem, it's the getting caught that is?
When it comes to 18 or 19 year old students away from home for the first time, yes, it is a right of passage and very common to drink underage. But if you are a football player at a high profile program like ND, it is unacceptable to get arrested doing it.
ND football players, whether they like it or not, represent the program and the university wherever they go and whatever they do. They have to be more careful than the average college student. Ask Tiger Woods or Ben Roethlisberger how that works. Or the Georgia AD who just got fired for picking up a DUI.
Star football players at a program like ND's receive tons of benefits, not the least of which is a shot at playing on Sundays. As a trade-off, their conduct is under a microscope and being arrested for any reason is a big deal. Virtually any college student would accept that trade-off in a millisecond. If these players did not understand this before, they do now.
You are playing proofreading police and telling me to lighten up?
Hypocrisy is the act of persistently professing beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that are inconsistent with one's actions. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie.
The hypocrite thinks that what he or she usually professes does not somehow apply to him or her.
This time I will let you off with a warning. Just don't let it happen again.
Let's assume, arguendo, that Tate was drinking at Skeeps. Hell, assume every underaged player on the roster drinks occasionally (which for a bunch of college kids isn't outside the realm of possibility). Your point is still moo.
During the Jihad, a lot of us kept saying was "but EVERYONE does this shit." And the response was, "yeah, but they didn't get caught, and Michigan did. So you've gotta deal with the consequences"
My, how the turntables...
It's a bigger deal for Brian Kelly than for anybody else, esp. since the death of the recruit whose name I can't recall. He can't appear to be condoning any illegal stuff involving booze, so it will be interesting to see what the extent of his punishment will be.
It's hardly out of the realm of possibility that the same thing could happen here in AA, so I'm not going to gloat. Karma and all that.
And I agree; gloating is a bad idea. And not just because it could happen to us at any time, but also because these are just kids who did something we all did at some point. No need to drag them through the mud more than is necessary.*
*As long as they're suspended for at least two games...
Don: "It's hardly out of the realm of possibility that the same thing could happen here in AA, so I'm not going to gloat. Karma and all that."
I just don't think it is appropriate to gloat over something like this. It is an issue that has occurred at Michigan in the past, and likely will again in the future. That whole "People who llive in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" nonsense.
We're lucky, it sounds like the South Bend police are real cocksuckers when it comes to house parties. In Ann Arbor, they tend to be a little more lenient as long as you're drinking inside a house or at least on the grass. Once you leave the safety of the grass, it is an entirely different story.
Dmitri Martin disagrees:
The South Bend Police will be arriving shortly to take me in.
I dunno, there was so much pot being smoked in Markley during my fresh and soph years I doubt it was really that safe.
As someone who is underage, I was at a house party that got broken up by the cops and they just came to the door and said that everyone under 21 just leave through the backdoor. So yes, the cops in AA don't really care as long as your not a danger to yourself or anyone else, or so it seems like. South Bend sounds a little different...
The Jihad is a bad comparison. Not everyone does that stuff, and we ourselves wouldn't have if Brad Labadie/Scott Draper had done their jobs.
Bad example. Labadie, without a doubt was the sole reason why you didn't read multiple headlines similar to this ND underage drinking story to have come out of a2 over the last couple years. He is REALLY taking a lot of heat right now, and some rightfully so, but this guy saved the asses of countless players during his time in the AD.
is 'who cares?! the drinking age is stupid. no one over 18 should ever get punished for drinking alcohol. drinking and driving on the other hand ..."
There is a small difference between a college football player drinking underage and a college football player being busted for drinking underage. The difference is making sure you are not doing it in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am sure that most college players drink occasionally, but the vast majority don't get busted in a group with several other high profile football players. Go Irish!
Except that getting arrested isn't under their control. HAve you been at a Michigan party when the cops came? I'm sure 100% of the students or former students on this board have. Your'e deriding these kids because the cops happened to be assholes. In Ann Arbor, less so.
I really don't understand why you're getting negged for this. During my 4 years at Michigan I could easily name at least three dozen players who I either saw drinking while underage or drank with personally while they were underage, whether at frat houses or the bar. I can also name a few who like to regularly smoke marijuana with people I know.
Do some posters here really think that Michigan football players don't do these things? Trust me, this happens everywhere. I'm not saying every player (not even close), but it happens in every program in the country.
There are plenty of people here who reflexively neg anybody who makes a comment that can be construed—no matter what contortions in interpretation are necessary—as anything other than slavishly laudatory of Michigan, or RR. If you dare to express an opinion that a highly-rated recruit will go elsewhere, or that Michigan won't go 13-0, or that there are other college football programs worthy of respect, somebody here will neg you automatically.
And then there are those who seem to neg the most innocent comments by individual commenters for what appear to be entirely personal reasons. It's weird.
I'll check with some "sources close to the program" as things unfold.
For now, sufficed to say...
EDIT: Pete Fiutak is reporting that Ron Powlus and Touchdown Jesus were also arrested for underaged drinking, but that coach Rockne has no comment at this time.
Someone's dipping into the holy wine before sunday ehh?
While I understand that college students drink and I don't ever think that's a big deal, but the school has to be careful how they deal with this since they just had a recruit fall to his death during spring break because he was drunk. It's going to be a tough line to toe.
I gotta believe BKelly laid down the law at the beginning of camp with a "zero tolerance" attitude in light of Matt James' tragic death. The school and SBPD may be taking a no-nonsense stance against drinking among underage students. I mean a real stance with real consequences.
The "Zero tolerance. After the first strike. Or after the second strike if it really isn't a big deal and the cop was just being a dick. And possibly after the third strike if you feel really REALLY bad about it. Though some exceptions will be made for fourth strikes if we're really thin at corner. But that's IT. After that, no tolerance. Probably" policy.
That's great...I was going to post something but I read that take and, really, there is no way to exceed that analysis. I'd give you more than the plus one if I could...
Or Best Comment Evar?
of the students. In Oregon Chip Kelly perhaps could have been harsher with Masoli (and maybe saved him from the path he's taken (I doubt that much could have saved Masoli however given his poor choices.)) James makes this a big deal for ND.
Discipline and locker room culture are particular to the schools. I'm surprised this sort of difference doesn't play out more in recruiting. I'd think parents would be tuned into this...but I don't see that so much.
I think Chip Kelly has handled Oregon's issues pretty well. They hammered their star RB last year (Blount) for the punching incident after the Boise game.
We will see what kind of disciplinarian Brian Kelly is. Lo Wood and Nate Montana are too high profile for ND to think they can quietly slap them on the wrist without raising eyebrows.
right back on the team after taking the credit for said hammer. That works for curbing media and public reaction but it doesn't set a clear standard for the players.
Masoli had a strike against him and screws were not applied (that could have potentially saved his season.)
I don't blame Chip Kelly for the behavior of his players entirely but I certainly don't think he has handled discipline well.
OT to the discussion at this point:
Survey reveals that 650,000 underage drinkers in the past month were given alcohol by their parents or guardians
More than 40 percent of the nation’s estimated 10.8 million underage current drinkers (persons aged 12 to 20 who drank in the past 30 days) were provided free alcohol by adults 21 or older, according to a nationwide report by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. The study also indicates that one in 16 underage drinkers (6.4 percent or 650,000) was given alcoholic beverages by their parents in the past month.
Source - samhsa.gov
Just sayin'. Seems fair to me.
That's pretty harsh for underage drinking.
At the parties I saw get busted up by cops, it was just citations for everyone and you go home.
Yeah it's real great having a police department which only focusses on alcohol violations, gets them real excited when they get to arrest someone. 43 people arrested, man
Tip for dealing with the SBPD: when (not if, when) someone breaks in and steals your shit, tell them that the thieves were underaged, and that one of the items missing is a 30-rack of Keystone. That's the only way they'll bother to look for the rest of your shit.
The fact they were arrested could mean they gave the police a hard time or that there are circumstances besides the drinking. It does seem harsh if this happened at a private party and nothing else occurred.
Edit: Here is the ESPN version of events (apparently they were called because there was a fight):
All 43 people were giving the police a hard time. Sounds like the cops there are just douches.
While drinking isn't uncommon in colleges, underage drinking is still illegal.
Just as Michigan violated rules that most colleges violate, Michigan got caught by the NCAA police and is being penalized. Because of this, people still like to say we are "cheaters". So, I guess we can say since these ND players were caught and arrested, we can call them "criminals"? I'll go for that....
A friend of mine is banned for life from Notre Dame's campus for drinking underage. I'm assuming this is a hard and fast rule and that these players will also be banned. If not, I will be incensed. Incensed!
excise police strike again
I wondered about the reference to excise police in the article. Are these police whose entire job is enforcement of liquor laws? If that's all they have to do they have a strong incentive to bust kids, it shows they're on the job. Also, that's probably a state agency rather than a local unit.
Underage drinking? In college? By kids on the football team?
Oh, the humanity.
ND's official "lets get fucked up" gear?
... for those outfits.
was under the "conduct" part of the student handbook...
Didn't Grady get 2 DUI's and was still let back on the team?
They could have just divided his BAC in half and given him two, but the law doesn't allow that kind of thing.
Actually, couldn't it have been 3? He was at .24, right?
Grady was unable to recite the alphabet, with Thompson quoting Grady as saying "O, R, S, J, L, P."Thompson said he asked for a number between 12 and 14, and Grady answered "15"And when asked whether Mickey Mouse is a dog or a cat, he answered "dog."
... from the team before you can be reinstated. If ND suspends these guys at all, it will be for a game or two (unless more is involved than just drinking).
Grady initially pled not guilty to the DUI, but Michigan still suspended him indefinitely pending the outcome. After everything was over (I think he eventually took a deal), Grady was allowed back on the team. I think he missed one game, though I do not remember if he played in the first game back or not. And when Grady was reinstated, some of the faithful (and press) were not all that pleased because he still had not fully completed the terms of his deal and I think he even missed a meeting with his probation officer.
While I love piling abuse on ND any chance I get, I really don't see underage drinking as a "crime." Pulling a college kid "into the system" for drinking a year or two early is much more of a crime in my book. A "violation of team rules," on the other hand, is a different matter altogether. Though I think a few extra runs up and down the stadium steps would be appropriate punishment, my guess is that they are suspended for the opener and supremely motivated to play against Michigan.
At any rate, I really don't want to see these players suspended for the Michigan game. I don't think it's fair to the players or their teammates, and I would much rather see Michigan nail a full-strength ND team with no excuses on either side. I don't want to read national tripe about how Michigan defeated a "suspension-crippled Notre Dame team.'
I do, however, want to read about how Michigan defeated a "full-strength, fired-up Notre Dame team."
Of course, everyone - if guaranteed a victory - would want it to come against the best opposition possible. The better hypothetical is, would you rather "lose honorably" against a full-strength ND team or win the game when some of their guys are suspended? I'll take the win 10 times out of 10.
There's a lot of potential among the players arrested (e.g., Lo Wood, Chris Watt, Tai-ler Jones) but, as Irish pointed out, not a lot of immediate impact players. The article linked by psychomatt lists Montana at the top of the list as Crist's backup but points out that he was second string at a community college last year and is expected to be challenged by several true Freshmen for the backup position in the Fall.
Police departments on campuses generally suck. From my expirence they target college kids because we generally just take whatever plea/deal they want us too as quickly as possible, pay the fine, and it is like instant cash. Every campus i have been to is famous for the cops beening hard on one thing or another. At Michigan, we are lucky that generally underage drinking is not their aim. However, when it comes to noise violations our police are known for handing them out like candy on football saturdays, if you dont believe me, take a look how state and hoover has died for pregames cause we cant afford the tickets every weekend. To make it worse they do absolutly nothing when the ann arbor bum population continually breaks in to our off campus housing because it literally happens every day. Rarely is anything to valuable taken but still they dont pay tickets so they are not targets. In truth, most college students will drink before they are 21 at some point. Many will do it alot. I feel no guilt about it (you know if i was to ever do something like that). As far as the football team goes, I would hope our athletes wouldnt drink to better themselves but that is only sometimes the case ( a good example is actually yesterday's recruiting profile Christian Pace, I have talked to him at multiple parties and to my knowledge he doesn't drink, makes me like him that much more). It really is not an issue as long as they are not drinking on friday nights which sadly also happens.
this is a joke, right? I'm not condoning underage drinking but we're talking about college kids. College kids, man. We talkin' about college kids, man.
The cops probably only found out about it because they got a tip from Danny Hope.
... all this stuff about looking the other way with underage drinking?
A ND recruit died on Spring Break.
All these kids are (probably) on scholarship.
ND has to do something; you'd think they might even have a lower tolerance for this stuff than many schools.
Yeah, everyone drinks, murders, etc. But when a student-athlete is arrested for ANYTHING, it's a serious matter.
And drinking and driving is the big No-No, and really bad news these days.
UNLESS you are the Lions team president, then you get a wrist slap and case resolved before most poor slobs even get on the docket for their first court appearance...
WTF i love the tp quote from last year as much as anyone ... but it is disgusting to use it in an argument
underage drinking is not a moral crime, we are the only non 3rd world country (read: Muslim shia law nations) that makes people wait till they are 21 to drink, I could honestly legally be drafted tmwr to fight for my nation (and die for it like a buddy of mine under 21 has) and yet we are told we can't enjoy a beer at the bar.
Murder however is a moral crime ... disgusting comparision
The reference to "murder" was undoubtedly a Terrelle Pryor joke (remember when he said, everyone murders when asked about Michael Vick?)
i said i love the tp quote ... ie terrelle pryor ... i am more than aware of it
does not change a thing ... still compared murder to underage drinking which is fucking awful ... he basically did what we made fun of pryor for doing
I wonder if Nate Montana has the money to bypass the High Life and go straight to Bud Light (aka high class college beer).
The Champagne of Beers takes a backseat to no libation, foreign or domestic!
I always wondered why "champagne" gave me such horrible gas. Ideas?
the freep is coming, to an A2 bar near you, watch out underage football players. The alchihod is on.
Isn't ND the university Jesus went to? Would he condone this type of terrible behavior?
But I think Jesus would have been cool with it. In fact, if the students were too broke to buy alochol, Jesus might have transformed some water into Manschewitz for them.
Fair enough, haha.