Both of those seem pretty reasonable. I want spittle on the computer screen lunacy in my schadenfraud.
A little ND schadenfreude
Will find some for his SB Nation article!
Doesn't really seem thread worthy.
I'm sure there will be more out there. We can use this thread as a place to gather them.
Lots of them bitching about the pass interference call on Michigan's last TD drive. They may have a bit of a point there. On the other hand, Fitz Toussaint got his helmet turned 90 degrees on Michigan's first drive of the second half. Without a penalty, we're forced to punt two plays later. With a personal foul called as it should have been, we're looking at first and 10 from the ND 21 and it's very likely that we go up by three scores. Would have been a lot less drama in the second half if that had happened. So, refs gonna ref. You lost.
While I even agree the PI call was questionable I seem to remember a vivid horse-collar tackle that ND wasn't called for as well as 2-3 facemasks that they were not called for, so in the end I think it evens out a bit.
Perusing some of the posts.
P.s. Our new, game-chamging, program-building nutrition program seems to emphasize chitterlings and milkshakes and pizza and mashed potatoes
I was a bit surprised at how many people kept repeating over and over that Michigan is not great, Michigan is not elite, etc.
I take elite to mean <5 point underdog to Bama at a neutral site.
So, no one then?
That seems like a fairly logical assessment right now. Maybe Georgia (Gurley can really tote the rock -- I hope Mr. Green is able to watch some of that film)? I don't think that Oregon, Clemson, OSU, or Michigan could keep up with the Tide right now. Perhaps (hopefully) the end of the season will show a slightly different story.
I am very excited to see what Saban dials up for Johnny Football next weekend, however. Hate the man's (public) demeanor and the tactics he uses, but you've got to give credit to the machine he has created. My hope is that Michigan is on a similar trajectory in the next few years.
Bama may still be the best, but we can't say for sure yet. Their offense certainly wasn't impressive against Va Tech (of course we know how that feels) and the history of great teams suggests a surprising drop-off sooner or later.
But I think "elite" means more than Bama anyway. Top five at least, or very good and able to beat a top five team. Or something.
Anyway, it's entirely possible that a Michigan team with a lot of youth, an all-new interior OL, key receiver injuries, and a big hole at safety is not elite. Maybe Devin lifts the team and proves them wrong, but we can't know that for sure.
So, then what is great? My point was that they appeared to completely discredit our team, which I thought was unwarranted. Certainly we appear fairly good, do we not? Has anyone in the Big Ten been more impressive through (an admittedly small sample size of) two games?
about PI calls...they should include the 2nd and 12 play that went off Jake Butts fingertips in the end zone (the play before the Gallon PI call). The DB clearly grabbed Butts jersey with his left hand. The ref in the back of the end zone was staring right at the play.
Not mention the numerous holding penalties that went uncalled on the ND OL.
If they're going to whine about the PI call, then they should also include the fact that they lost by 11. It's not like the ensuing TD was the decisive score.
Also there was a phantom hold they called on Miller that killed a drive we seemed to be getting ready to score on
I though tthe first PI was a good call. DB pushes the WR out of the play with the ball in the air and is all alone when the ball arrives? PI.
on Gallon when the ball was in the air, that is pretty much an automatic PI. Not to mention as others have said, before that point, the missed calls have been going against Michigan (missed PI on the play before on Butt, missed facemask and horse collar on Fitz, and a phantom hold that stopped a Michigan drive). I don't want to hear any bitching about that call from ND fans considering it was the right call, and Michigan was getting the short end of the stick from the officials most of the game.
How does taking away the PI call score any points for ND?
ND has been the beneficiary of so many "friendly" calls over the years that their fanbase bitches anytime a game is called straight up. Let them whine.
I hate it when we benefit from questionable calls - I don't want a tainted win, and I don't think this one was - but I'll make an exception for ND with all the breaks they've gotten over the years against us and others. I actually enjoy it.
There were also a few questionable holding calls against M's offense, but overall, I think the game was well officiated.
...re: Kelly's "genius." Hmm, RBs getting 105 yds on 18 carries = why the hell are you throwing it over 50 times?
Their rushing game was chugging along. Tommy Rees was not. I just don't get their gameplanning
Michigan wasn't exactly slowing down the pass game either. Michigan didn't have much of a pass rush and Rees seemed pretty automatic when they needed yards.
"Michigan didn't have much of a pass rush"
I think that may have actually been intentional. When we really needed one, we got one. For whatever reason, we were really content with a four man rush that didn't apply much pressure for almost the entire first three quarters with the exception of a few plays when we really needed a stop.
Totally agree with this. They had quite a few big, gashing runs up the middle. Why go away from that?
They ran when our defense was in two deep. We had one less defender and they took advantage of that. When we brought one if the safety's down into the box they changed the play at the line and went to pass. When they did run into this defense we stuffed them.
Count me among the people confused by this. Typical ND play selection seemed to by "1st and 10- rush for 8 yards. 2nd and 2- empty backfield 5 wide. 3rd and 2- empty backfield five wide." With the way ND was gashing Michigan, I don't really understand why they didn't run more.
The middle of the field was wide open on both running and passing plays. Why ND didn't run the ball 30+ times is hard to understand.
Losing and bk always throws anyway
Just the fact that they feel the need to say we are not elite says something.
"You're better than us, but not elite"?
Not sure I get their need to make those statements. Seems to be that means they're bashing their own team by commenting on how the team that just beat them by two scores isn't really that strong. Unless they're saying we may be better than them this year, but not "elite" like they were last year, which would be just as stupid.
FWIW, I don't think we're elite yet either, but it's hard to argue that we don't have the chance to have a very successful team this year and beyond. I loved DG's game last night (other than The Incident).
In the banter he had with the ND blogger, Brian predicted Michigan would go to a bend-but-don't-break defense. This gives up a lot of yards but no big plays and less points. It worked.
Yes, we were fortunate to get two turnovers and a clutch fourth down stop during the game but ND hung around mainly because we weren't dominate. We were dominate not because they were just better, we weren't risking much.
I trust Mattison and think part of the reason he help back is because of the youth of his team and also to unleash some good stuff for the game against Ohio. I hope he has some good stuff for the Buckeyes.
Not barely. Not at all.
The bend but don't break is all about forcing excellent execution. ND/Rees couldnt do that. Granted the last INT was fortune smiling on us, but the first was a classic bend but don't break turnover.
Rather, ND "hung around" due to issues witht the offense: Gardener's INT and our inability (though helped by the phantom hold on Miller) to even get a FG on our first drive of the 2nd half.
Not sure what you were watching SDogg!
I saw an ND team that got exceedingly lucky courtesy of a fluky tipped TD catch, a dropped INT by Ross, missed/bad calls that extended their drives and killed Michigan drives, and DG's 1 poor decision. I think this game was a gnats ass from getting out hand and being a blow out win by Michigan. ND fans, from what I've been reading, recognize that fact, have given DG props, and are rightly upset with Kelly's strategy. IMO, Mattison did what a good DC does with a young squad going against a big play offense -- keep everything inside and in front of your defense.
I think ND's DL is elite, and hopefully our OL learned a lot about elite level blocking last night. They basically pinned their ears back and came at our OL every play. I think this is the first time in a long time that Michigan was just the better team and played with more poise, and didn't have to rely upon miracles to win.
Not sure what you were watching Sten Carlson!
I saw an ND offensive line that destroyed our defensive line allowing them to run the ball at will and sit in the pocket all day while we failed to cover anyone. We never got any pressure on the quarterback besides one lucky sack when brennan did a spin move in the same direction rees cut and found a gift in front of him, besides that Rees just picked us apart. Our defense did nothing and our only hope was that for three straight plays Rees would throw a bad pass/a receiver would drop the ball. They moved the ball with ease.
Meanwhile on offense I saw a defensive line that destroyed our offensive line having their whole team in our backfield on every run play and hitting Gardner two seconds into every pass play. Every yard we got was fought for tooth and nail.
I have no idea how we won this game when we got absolutely manhandled in the trenches, we did not at all look like the better team to me, it looked like a push at best.
I agree with this.. We are in year 3, and our head coach is suppose to be a D-line coach, yet we managed 1 sack against a decent O-line? How many years are we gonna have to wait before we have someone on the D line that can actually be a force?
|1 week 2 hoursago||After re-watching im nervous||
After re-watching im nervous about our WR and RB's thru the rest of the year.. Don't think our offense will move the ball much against ND, but we'll see.
|1 week 21 hoursago||When none of our RB's rush||
When none of our RB's rush for over 50 yards against ND you will prob think we need to recruit more too
ND "moved the ball with ease" yet Michigan scored more points, had more yards, more rushing yards, more T.O.P., more first downs, more yards per play, and more third down conversions. The only stats in which ND beat Michigan were passing yards (by 20 yards), yards per rush (by .6 yards/carry), penalties, and turnovers.
Michigan out performed ND in nearly every category, and if not (as I mentioned previously) for a few fluky plays, some bad/missed calls, and a complete brain melt by DG, Michigan runs away with the game.
I would agree with you about UTL #1, in which Michigan lucked into a win with a miracle finish and inexplicable mistakes by ND. In this game, it seemed to me that much of the "manhandling" by the ND OL/DL was something that the Michigan coaches schemed for. ND's DL is elite, and probably the best we're going to see all year. Michigan's OL is talented, but young, and think the game plan was to neutralize the pass rush with quick hitters, zone reads, and DG's athletic ability to extend plays. If you read what ND fans are complaining about it is that their DL was just rushing with their ears pinned back and their hair on fire, and DG was STILL able to beat them. Similarly on defense, I think Mattison was pretty certain that they weren't going to get much pass rush on the veteran ND OL, so he schemed to keep the ball "inside and in front" of his relatively young and inexperienced defense, and let Rees make mistakes -- which he did, at the most inopportune time. The bad passes he threw a product of the defense that Michigan was playing, both the rush, and the coverage.
Even after the DG INT, I wasn't concerned. I could tell that Michigan had the game completely in hand. Michigan won because they were the better team, that was better coached, better prepared, more physical, and made more plays, simple.
Jonesy, you said it yourself, you have no idea how we won this game. Seems to me that our gameplan and scheme was clear and effective: make Rees execute again and again. He couldn't do it. There's a reason he was replaced by a redshirt freshman last year.
This game was only close at the end because of Devin Gardner's one terrible choice. Rees made some bad choices too, of course. In the end, they probably canceled out, the luck on either side probably about canceled out, same with refs, and we're left with what we're left with: a score that says Michigan was 11 points better. That sounds about right to me. Take away the 3 points for home field and that says we're about one touchdown and a two-point conversion better. That sounds about right too.
I wish I had your confidence because that game nearly gave me an ulcer. Sure stats may say we outperformed them but we had to fight tooth and nail for every yard while theirs were gained easily and they lost more due to bad playcalling and missed open opportunities.
Every michigan running play (except when DG ran it) - offensive line destroyed, DL in the backfield, no gain or a great effort by the running back.
Every notre dame running play - gaping holes, easy 6 yard gain (BK is an idiot for ditching the run).
Every michigan passing play - offensive line destroyed, DL and LB in the backfield, Gardner has to make a quick decision and a good pass while getting hit, we're a split second from a sack or an altered pass.
Every notre dame passing play - we rush four, we get 0 pressure, rees sits in the pocket all day and easily finds an open receiver (yay for drops and bad throws).
To me, that means that we're fighting an uphill battle and relying on Rees and receivers to mess up, thats not exactly where I want to be. We were far more likely to lose than to run away with it. This was a very close game between pretty even teams.
Read what others are saying about Borges' game plan. He ran the ball to set up the play action, and he did it just enough to insure that ND wouldn't abandon defending it aggressively. I think if you asked Borges candidly whether he believed they'd get 100+ yards from the RB prior to the game he would have said, "no." ND's front is elite, and even when Michigan's OL is elite and experienced running consistently on a front like ND's is going to be tough. Ironic isn't it that the play that really put Michigan in position to seal the game was a 22 yard RUN by Fitz. I'll bet in a UFR of that play we'll see that this was one of the few times ND wasn't in "run-stop" mode as Borges made them think they were going to abandon the run, but came back to it at the perfect moment.
On defense, I think the same is true, Mattison would have candidly said he was less than confident that the front 4 would get substantial pressure alone. Again, GM rolled the dice and opted to not let Rees go over the top like they had in the past by blitzing rarely and keeping everything in front of the defense. ND has a good, experienced OL and were basically max protect all game. If GM had calle up blitz after blitz, I think Rees would have REALLY hurt the defense. He forced ND to execute flawlessly over and over. There were the two INT's, one dropped INT by Ross, and a fluky tipped TD that should have been a break up. That's 4 times in which ND did NOT execute flawlessly, and Michigan's defense capitalized on 2/4. All in all, a good showing IMO for a young defense without its best LB.
Chill out, ND is a good team, and it was a solid win for Michigan!
We'd have lost by 40, instead of having a game that easily could have been 22 point win.
Relying on the offense to screw up is what defenses do. Eventually we might be one that forces teams to make mistakes, but those are few and far between, and we're not there yet. But how many teams are we going to play that can exploit that? And by the time we do, we'll be a better team in Novermber than we are now.
You mean dominant. Not dominate.
Their fanbase seems to look internally. I really thought they would blame the loss on the questionable pass interference call. They are really blaming the loss on Kelly's decision making, failure to run the ball, and clock control.
They should be blaming this loss on Devin Gardner, Jeremy Gallon, and Blake Countess. The better team won.
The defense didnt give up big plays. Longest pass was 23 yards and run was 16. That said, they did give up several passes in the 20 yard range, but that was a good offense that we played.
I wonder how Damefan1 is doing
Are Dame Fan and The Knowledge related?
This actually sounds like reasonable Notre Dame fans upset at losing. We would be saying incredibly similar things if we had lost instead.
"He broke out like waiter at a Mexican restaurant when INS arrives!"
What a neanderthal.
Great game fellows. I can do nothing but tip my hat to you. Your defense is only going to get stronger with the eventual return of Ryan and Gardner will lead this team to many victories this year. Dare I say better than your Sugar bowl year. Hopefully you can catch some luck if you are lucky enough to go undefeated and the log jam at the top will seperate enough for you to get into 1 or 2. Despite my razzing I do cheer for UM in every game thats not this one.
Teo in this defense will be sadly missed this year as I believe that with him roaming the middle there was a lot of mop up duty that allowed the rest of the front seven and the secondary to excel. He was a lot bigger part of this D than I wanted to see.
I will be sad to see this series end, its the one game I look forward to every year that I watch with my dad (he is a UM fan). The only game I can compare it to is the SC game. I enjoy our rivalry but I hate SC with a passion of a thousand suns.
PS: I hate the legends jersey idea. I think its fantastic to recognize players of yore but I also think these new kids need to be able to carve a niche for themselves.
Good luck the rest of the way.