Thanks for noting that your prediction; I'll change the entry in my logbook.
Thanks for noting that your prediction; I'll change the entry in my logbook.
Should we conclude that USC is not that good. Syracuse is giving them a game? So early in the season. Survive and advance.
I forgot to add that BWC getting blown back on several plays by guys he outweighs by...a lot...is a serious problem. If he can't at least control the middle often our front 7 will have a hard time making plays.
I think BWC was pulled in the second half. I didn't see him play during the last three or four series.
As far as what we know, I think we know that a good amount of work needs to be done. I won't be surprised if the starting front seven is pretty different five games from now than it was last Saturday. It looks like Bolden, Ross, and Pipkins are three of Michigan's more effective front seven players. It also looks like Black might move back to the three tech, which I'm pretty sure he played for part of the second half instead of Campbell.
That we know NOTHING?? We know they can't hang with the big boys like Bama, and we know they are having trouble with containing on the end. I would venture to say that is something.
Exactly. We know enough to know that this defense is OK at best. Even Hoke is saying it's a work in progress. I don't buy the whole "DUDE WE ARE FINE OMG TRIPLE OPTION" arguement. They pretty much had their way with us all game, even outside of running traditional TO stuff. They were getting good yards on plays like fullback dives. Doesn't bode well for our d-line against teams that can actually open holes up front.
This appears to be the first of many panic threads, as predicted in the game thread about an hour ago.
your both lines are dominated by an academy team... there is reason to panic.
So when Georgia Southern dominates Alabama on the line and rushes for 300 yards, they should panic?
Alabama's starters were in the entire game? Yeah, I don't either.
Fair point. But they had over 200 yards total O at half and were only down by 10.
Panic? Ha, no. Michigan won't have to face another cut-blocking line again. At this point I'm more concerned about the Oline's run blocking ability. Denard was Denard, but there were more than a handful of runs that went for little to no gain.
But I could argue that we don't know until Purdue or Illinois. ND isn't a great run team and are easily a pass first/run to keep you honost team. I think by ND we will know how our D-line will play against spread teams, but we won't know until probably Illinois how Michigan plays against a somewhat down hill team.
And will continue to be until we punish teams for putting 8-10 people in the box to stop us by hitting it over the top consistently. We are starting to do so... But that is the "stop Denard plan" every team is going against us. I will become truly concerned when teams are only rushing 4 and crushing our running game / getting pressure.
On that note...I am excited to see the emergence of #19 and #12. Their size and speed could give opposing teams serious issues.
I hate threads like this. If I want to freak out, I will.
DO NOT TAKE ANY TEAM LIGHTLY!!!!
I knew the triple option would cause some trouble. But I sure didn't expect this. I'm not too pleased but I'll take the win. Always will take the win.
I mentioned this in the game thread. Folks saying that we're overrating the whole "But Air Force has a unique offense" thing need some perspective. I live in Oklahoma, and in 2010, OU beat Air Force early in the year, but only by 3 points, 27-24. They were ranked #9 at the time, having just crushed #18 FSU the week prior. They finished the season 12-2 with a Big 12 Championship and a BCS bowl win. Air Force had 351 (!!!) yards of rushing, 458 yards total and 5.9 yards per play. Against a very good OU team. THIS IS WHAT AIR FORCE CAN DO TO YOU. They were down by 17 points in the 4th quarter, but fought back to make it a 3 point game before OU shut the door for good. Sound familiar? Now, OU didn't have a dynamite defense that year, but it was above average...they gave up like 22 points per game. If we're being realistic, Michigan's defense won't be anything like last years in scoring rank, but surely they can be good enough to make stops when it matters. Sure, there are causes of concern that you can clearly see from today's game. But there is no reason to panic just yet. No reason to now say that Michigan can't possibly beat a ND, or MSU, etc. etc. etc.
I mean, against Notre Dame last year they had 363 yards on the ground, against Boise they had 264 and against TCU they had 249.
This is what they do to people and we knew going into the season we weren't going to be a great team up front on the DL.
So I'm in total agreement with your stance on no need to panic.
Demens was benched because he is terrible. Don't know at what point he was benched but he was unless out there. Couldnt get off a block to save his life. If a lineman dove within 5 yds of his feet he fell down. He was the missing person on all those 15 yd options plays in the first half
Yeah, the fact that, as Brian pointed out, when the game was on the line, two true freshmen LBs, Ross and Bolder were in the game. Scary in the short term, but great for the long term. Also sobering realizing the talent/development deficit we've had for the better part of a decade.
Northfleet's brazen roommate.
But but...... Magnus said Demens was up there with David Harris.
The Kenny Demens v. Mike Cox matchup next week will be epic.
Its strange how Demens seems to be the one guy who really regressed once we switched from GERG to Greg.
Perhaps there was more to that stuffed beaver than we really knew...
On the plus side: we seem to get good pass rush through the two games
I think we have done well pass protecting and getting a pass rush the last two weeks. but in the trenches we have to fortify both sides of the ball -- give it time we are young and inexperienced- the coaches will get them better.
The seniors we had last year were recruited to play the style Hoke wants to play on both sidesof the ball. The current players were recruited to play a much different style of line - that is fact --- that is an issue - we lost experience and as a result we will also see the freshmen playing (more inexperience) -- We will get better as all of them get more experience --the coaches are coaching them and Wellman is getting them bigger - This team will be better this year - the next couple of weeks will be helpful- we will be ready for the B1G conference games
enough with excuses. Sure Bama is light years ahead of us...
But Air Force didn't just use trickery on us. They had there way with the DL every way possible. I think our DE's will be OK against pro O's bc they can rush the QB... but we are so weak up the middle. DT's and ILB's...weak weak. AF marched ALL game long. You would think just with the size advantage UM could force a few punts here and there but nothing the whole game practically. The entire front seven had to overcompensate for there play all game long.
Also, there is a reason TRUE FROSH were in when it mattered even against this "hard to play against offense". If you are a sr there is no reason a frosh should be taking your spot at LB. Not after you have been coached by mattison for a year...how can these frosh grasp the D better than Sr or returning players? They were playing HS ball last year
Also, changing the style of O we face isn't going to suddenly make Mogran faster, the guys is slow and plays even slower.
all of that and I'm not even talking about the OL....we have learned a lot.
I agree. Both lines have looked bad against different kinds of offenses. They're not gelling with the veterans in there. That's obvious for anyone to see.
Denard's strong will and talent won this game. And as we all learned from 2009-2010, that will not be enough by itself to beat the tougher teams on our schedule.
The question is who those tougher teams will be.
Right now, with the exception of Michigan State, and possibly OSU, the B1G isn't looking very good. ND didn't do much against Purdue. Wisconsin appears to be disorganized, and they'd better improve if they want to win some games. Iowa looks downright awful.
If Michigan's lines can improve, we have a chance at a very good year. Sadly, I think we're in pretty bad shape at the moment. But things might improve if they find the right combination of guys.
How much more do you need to see? The D-line got exposed by a between the tackles offensive line last week. They couldn't get any penetration against an option offense on 1-1 matchups despite having 20-30 lbs on each offensive lineman. The fact is you can pull the sheet over your eyes as much as you like, but we are being exposed. Our line is getting stood-up at the line of scrimage and can't get any penetration. This D-line is NOT good. Losing RVB and Martin was huge. Will Campbell - 2 holding calls in 1 game? seriously? If the basic technique of staying low and pushing doesn't get remedied, look for Levon Bell to run for 250 yds against us.
This post makes me think you know nothing about AF's game plan and didn't watch the game.
Elton John said he'd be a good man, but I don't think this is the same guy. I tell you, Northfleet is quick!!!
the biggest issue on D. The play on the edge was the major issue, I lost count of how many times the pitch man was unaccounted for. Playing a team like Air Force will show you where you are in terms of executing your assignments on defense, and there was way too many busted assignments on D to be successful today. That was a major issue against Bama as well. The good thing about blown assignments is that they are correctable, and I don't think the players making the mistakes lack the physical talent to play better. For what it's worth, I thought the pass rush was somewhat effective the first two games, so at least that's a positive.
As far as the o-line it was a mixed bag. They clearly got push and opened up lanes on Denard's runs, not so much on RB runs. However, 8 carries for the RB's is a small sample size compared to the amount of times Denard ran it. At the end of the day they still averaged 7 yards per carry, so I am not going to freak out about the o-line. Pass protection was also okay for the most part.
I don't think we know nothing. Obviously there should be some level of concern, but full blown panic is a bit much. If both lines don't look good against ND, than full on panic might be warrented at that point.
I'm late to the board and reading through all the comments. This is probably the most level-headed one I've come across so far.
In process of getting replaced by James Ross.
I watched the game with what I feel we're a bunch of idiots. It was one of those rooms where ignorance was the new intelligence. Anyway, could I please get some support from the intelligent fans on the board, that a Triple Option team is difficult to prepare for, and that teams do avoid teams like air force? Thanks.
A bigger concern: Raymon Taylor was getting owned in run support for the most part. But freshman, so what do we expect I suppose?
Taylor isn't a freshman.
Yes you are correct. I thought he was a RS Frosh. Forgot about the 5 token snaps he got last year. (yes, exaggeration)
" Light years ahead of us, or really about 3 if we keep recruiting the way we have."
3 light years? That's a really long distance. I guess recruiting isn't going very well...
but our recruiting can make the Kessel run in 3 parsecs!
I agree. The offense won't be as good as they were today, but they won't be as bad defensively either. These first three weeks feel like weird exhibition games. UM will probably go 2-1 heading into ND, when the first "real" game of UM's season starts.
I am a little concerned with the lines. Notre Dame is really big on both sides of the ball. Their O-line goes 304, 309, 310, 295, 304 and all are 6'3" plus. Their entire defense is big too. The front 7 are all really good sized, even the DBs are decent sized, although I'm too worried about them. Their D-line goes 306, 303, and 326 all over 6'3". Their LBs go 240, 250, 255, 240 and all 6'2" plus. So, the smallest guy on either of their offensive or defensive line is 6'3" 295, everyone else is 300 plus. That is concerning.
Our O-line seems to pass block much better than they run block, unfortunately Denard running is our best weapon...not throwing. So, when we play teams with big D-lines (Bama, ND, MSU, OSU) it is a little concerning as to whether or not we can move the ball on offense if they shut down D-Rob from running. I hope we develop that a little more as time goes on. As you can see having Fitz back didn't really matter since we don't run block well.
I do like our freshman defenders (Pipkins, Ross, Bolden)...they need to start ASAP so they can develop because they are simply better options than the older guys. I think the bigger more physical teams will give us some trouble, but hopefully we can improve as time goes on. I was happy we got a win today, Denard put some numbers, we got stops when we needed them, Gardner and Funchess looked good, and our freshman defenders are improving.
Yeah but we'll just win at the last minute anyway so its no big deal.
So, we should not assess the DL because Alabama is too god and AF is too unconventional? Like these games don't count? I disagree. Our DL has been pushed straight back up the middle for two weeks and has shown limited ability to hold strong at the point of attack. Sure, AF is a hard team to push because of their blocking scheme, but there were plays where they pushed our DTs back and ran up the middle. That is bad, right? Hopefully we will improve, but I think it is fair to give an assessment of th DL at this point, and it is not positive.
Last year we had other defensive problems and we corrected them. I have faith that some players will improve, the coaches will find combinations that work, and by year end we wil be pleased. But right now we do know something about the DL -these games counted and our line play has been poor.
Nothing important to add here, but I never want to see a cut block again. I didn't realize how annoying that offense is to watch.
Simply not true that we know nothing until ND. We already know that Pipkins is going to challenge for time, if not take Washington's job. We already know that they're a long, long way from last year's lines. We already know that unless there's significant improvement, we're going to have trouble against the good team* in the B1G.
*intentionally singular, although Ohio may be good at some point, as might we.