Sorry if somebody asked this in another thread, they are all very long and I am extremely lazy. We all assumed that Hoke decided to take a 6th because Lewan was leaving, and I know a few are visiting this weekend (maybe). I also know that we told our other commits at one point we were only taking 5, if we take a 6th do we risk losing one of our commits? Do we even need 6 in this class? Discuss.
With Lewan coming back, do we still take a 6th OL?
I think we take Hunt if he wants in and if he does I see Reon Dawson possibly getting left out (assuming Green is coming to Michigan)
We have plenty of room to take Green, a sixth OL and at least one more (Dawson?).
No one assumed we were taking a 6th OL because Lewan was leaving. And no, I don't think this affects it at all. And all of the current 5 are on board with us taking a 6th.
Actually, a lot of people assumed we were taking a 6th OL because Lewan was leaving. BUT, I agree and don't think it affects it at all and we do take the 6th guy.
A lot of people haven't been paying attention then. Hoke red shirts all OL. None of our recruits are going to have a chance to play before Lewan leaves, so Lewan staying or leaving has no affect on the class. Also, Hoke had to know about this so it's not like he's been recruiting these OL with the same lack of knowledge that fans have had until tonight.
did you say something?
I am not sure if Coach Hoke will have that luxury this year to redshirt every lineman. If Bosch is ready to play, he can helpful on the two deep. As much as I appreciate the effort and tenacity of a redshirt like Burzynski, I would feel much more comfortable with a bigger bodied true freshman assuming he is capable.
Why not? We've made it through the last 2-3 seasons with 7 scholarship linemen on the 2 deep. We have our tackles returning and we know who our center is going to be. That means we have 4 scholarship players for the two guard positions and backups.
Because we have had an abnormally lucky streak with injuries (other than Chris Bryant). Also, with all the lineman we have been recruiting, I wouldn't doubt that at least one of the incoming lineman is not thinking redshirt. Ideally, you want to recruit four OL per year so I think the most ready freshman lineman willl likely be on the two deep because the team may need him and also because it balances the classes a bit more.
EDIT: Also, with all the high level recruits that we have had the past two years, if Burzynski is still on the two deep on opening day, then these recruits are probably not as good as we thought they were.
Hoke redshirts all freshmen OL. Kalis would have seen playing time this year if Hoke was willing to bend on this. We won't see any of our freshmen unless there are serious injuries. Burzynski will be in the two deep for the entire season and it won't say anything about the incoming freshmen.
JoeyB? Is that you? Just kidding.
However, I am not quite sure Hoke has said that he will never play a true freshman OL. I also assume he is not telling that to any recruits. Anyways, personally, I think balancing the classes a bit will help the future of the program assuming there is one incoming freshman that can make the two deep. The program wants ideally 16-18 OL on scholarship. Taking six OL in one year is a lot if you plan on redshirting all of them. That basically means one less spot for playmakers which the team also needs in future years. I love the emphasis on the trenches, but this is kind of like taking four or five 5'8 ninja slot receivers in one year. I would rather take the lineman, but you get my gist.
You play one slot ninja at a time. You play 5 OL at a time. And you have to assume some attrition based on grades, eventual lack of interest in football, lack of playing time, violation of team rules etc. With all that, and the dangerously low level of scholarship linemen on the team, adding a sixth this year is certainly not unreasonable.
When people act like they KNOW the coaches or what they're talking about when they don't.
There is absolutely NOTHING that says Coach Hoke redshirts all freshman. This is completely false.
And for the record - Burzynski beat out Kalis (or at least tied him), Kalis was not head and shoulders better - thus he redshirted.
It had nothing to do with some "rule" that you're implying.
Also, many "insiders" feel 1 maybe even 2 freshman OL will play next year to "break" this OL class up. Particularly the early enrollee freshman (Bosch has been mentioned the most).
Why would you burn a redshirt to take the few minutes Burzynski plays? We don't rotate our OL, so it's very possible to both redshirt and be on the two-deep. Now if Bosch is good enough to start, that's a different matter entirely.
It had nothing to do with Kalis being under some rule that all freshman OL redshirt. But are you going to burn Kalis' redshirt for what was probably 1 quarter's worth of meaningful snaps? If that. No.
Lewan staying or leaving has no affect on the class? I strongly disagree. If I was an offensive lineman I would jump at the chance to redshirt my first year and get to practice and learn under a top 10 NFL draft pick that decided to come back for his senior year. I believe Lewan will have a lot of leadership skills, life lessons, technique and advice to give to all the Olinemen (which includes our 2012 guys that will redshirt). Also, this gets to happen for an entire year, plus the 15 extra practices we get for bowl prep.
I'm not sure if Hoke ever said he redshirts all OL or not. But I hope this is true, because I agree and like the idea.
This decision, from the coaches perspective, has nothing to do with Lewan. That is all he is saying. They're pursuing 6 for the purposes of their depth chart in 2014 and beyond, not 2013.
He wasn't making a statemtent as to whether recruits would want to play with Lewan (a nice little bonus, i guess, but nothing compared to other factors in their decision).
If Lewan leaves and we don't redshirt a player...technically that player moves into the 2012 class with Braden, Kalis, etc.
That means the current class would have 5 guys who redshirt.
If Lewan stays, maybe we now reshirt all 6 guys in this current class...someone may not feel comfortable with 6 guys all in "their" class.
That could be a factor.
FWIW, I know Kalis was on the travel roster for at least part of the year (I saw him on the sidelines at Purdue), which usually means that you are in the two-deep. I think the plan for him was to try to keep his redshirt but have him available if absolutely necessarily. Fortunately it did not come to that.
1. Hoke likely knew Lewan was staying yet is still having Cameron Hunt visit this weekend.
2. A 6th offensive lineman would have had no bearing on the 2 deep for next season anyways. This doesn't change that. The only thing it changes is where on the roster that scholarship comes from.
Yes, I don't think they were taking a 6th with the intentions of him playing this year. It is to build depth for the future.
I'm sure Hoke was aware of Lewan's plans at least longer than we were. I would say yeah, he probably plans to anyway, or we would've heard something regarding the recruimet of the other guys in the past week or so.
I was listening to Sam Webb this morning and he said it wouldn't surprise him if we took a 6th or even a 7th OL in this class. That said, a 2013 scholly was just awesomely gobbled up by Mr. Lewan. 6 is still a possibility.
We still don't have great depth in scholarship lineman, so it would be warranted to take a sixth even with this great news about Lewan. I have heard that this may annoy some of the commits, but a look at the depth chart says we could use them.
There was never going to be any overlap between the potential recruit's playing time and Lewan's tenure.
I think the more accurate answer is "probably". While you're right that the 6th OL wouldn't play next year anyway, it is one less scholarship to play with in this class. It's possible the coaches conside other areas a higher priority and a 6th OL to be a luxury they could do without.
Unless I missed something, here is the depth chart going into next year: 7 returning scholarship players:
Taylor Lewan SR
Michael Schofield RS SR
Chris Bryant RS SO
Jack Miller RS SO
Blake Bars RS FR
Kyle Kalis RS FR
Eric Magnuson RS FR
Add the current five recruits, and that gives you 12 scholarship players for 5 positions. So we need more O-linemen.
Ben Braden, he exists.
Ben Braden. Also, Lewan will be a RS SR.
Thanks for the correction, guys, and no offense to Ben. Still that's 13 scholarship players for five positions. So the commits shouldn't be offended with one more.
While it's true there are some depth issues still, you did miss a couple that stand out.
Graham Glasgow has been getting some positive reviews from the coaches, and Ben Braden is a large man.
In spite of that, I think watching BCS games has shown that being huge and deep in the trenches is always a good thing.
Joey B could also be on scholarship next season. If he's starting, you'd assume they'd fine a Kovacs-like scholarship for him. We'll see.
How many open scholarships do we have left?
Realistically, probably 2. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Sam Webb said a few weeks ago that we could take up to 29. I'm assuming that means open scholarships because we can only take 28 in a class. That means that Lewan wouldn't affect that number. We have 24 right now, so we might be able to take up to 4 more. Green, OL, WR, undetermined 5*.
But any more commits beyond the next 1 would require firm handshakes to rs juniors to make space for our total scholly allotment, and I can only imagine 1, maybe 2 at the most that we can get by without. The rest of our rs juniors will be pretty critical next year.
May not really have a firm scholly offer so I'm guessing we have room for at least 3 more. Hopefully Green and Hunt are among them. After that I'd most want Larue or Foster but those seem unlikely.
Lewan staying shouldn't really affect how many 2013 linemen we take. The 2013 OLine class should all redshirt and see the field after he and Schofield move on. If we take one more, then in 2014 we'll have 12 scholarship linemen available. Since they'll be an even younger group than this years line it'll be good to have some extra bodies, and some flexibility in the roster.
I think the reason a spot opened up for a 6th OL recruit spot is the ACL injury that Chris Fox sustained at the end of his senior high school football season. It wasnt really well known about his injury until he showed up at the Army game and was not able to play/participate.
ACL is a one year injury and most linemen won't start their second year on campus anyways so that most likely had zero effect.
WHO CARES. Lewan is coming back!!!
Some of the linemen that we have been recruiting might care.
Geez, I hope not... I mean, if so, then we'd be recruiting the wrong type of player.
Don't you think the type of recruit we want, would WANT to have Lewan come back, to LEARN what it takes to be a top 10 NFL pick, and pick his brain, see his work ethic, pick up on anything they can, all the while not affecting playing time? The incoming recruits will likely redshirt, so I would presume they'd WELCOME a return by Lewan.
That is actually what I was getting at, not the other way around.
Taylor Lewan is your starting LT. Taking 5 or 6 O-linemen only affects next year's depth chart wrt to Taylor the two deep is not relient on having 1 more OL that will hopefully be redshirting. I have to imagine Hoke knew Taylor was coming back and he still wants a 6th OL
I would think not. I'm sure hoke has known his decision for a while, unless he had a last second change of heart
*i would think it doesn't change the number.
Didn't Coach Hoke say at one point that typically he'd like to have 18 linemen on scholarship?
You definitely want more than 8 or whatever we have now.
Quality OL are tough to come by and take time to age to perfection. I say take a 6th.
Depth is still needed.
Hunt appears to be another interior lineman. We really need a tackle in this class. Although he was impressive in the UA game.
We really need a tackle? We have Lewan, Schofield, Braden, Magnuson, Tuley-Tillman, and Fox. So six of the 13 guys on the roster or committed are tackles. Even after Lewan and Schofield graduate, we have four tackles (along with a couple guys who could play tackle if needed) and Denzel Ward committed for 2014.
We need a OG/C combo. Barrett Jones would be nice, but I'll settle for a better version of Rocko Khoury.
The timing of the new offers seemed to be right before news of Chris Fox's injury. He could be destined for a rehab induced redshirt. Maybe the coaches want 5 FR o-linemen ready to practice and compete, even if they do eventually redshirt.