I heard him and MSC did a threeway with Herve Villechaize on top of Moeller's desk back in the day. Gross.
At the same time, I still don't think Miles is coming to Michigan or even being courted by Brandon.
I heard him and MSC did a threeway with Herve Villechaize on top of Moeller's desk back in the day. Gross.
At the same time, I still don't think Miles is coming to Michigan or even being courted by Brandon.
...about the not being considered part.
You have something against little people?
I have a problem with the unspeakable acts they perpetrated with Gary Moeller's stapler. Some diabolical shit those three sickos are capable of.
If it involves another man's stapler I'm 100% with you. Didn't know about that one. Les "Swingline" Miles is unfit for the job. I'm thinking Mary Sue "Bostich" Coleman should be given the boot too.
Geeze I had no idea it was so bad.
Discuss in this thread: http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/schad-miles-interview-michigan
... who could resist Herve?
I am going to have nightmares now.
You're going to have wet nightmares.
Or not paying attention. It was a foursome with Loeffler and a circus midget. Herve was dead by then. And necrophilia is sick even for Les.
I have inside sources way better than Schefter and Schad. You wouldn't believe the horrors these people have witnessed. Les Miles = a walking Fellini movie.
More like a walking Pasolini movie!
You are not DB or god for that matter to say if someone is morally fit somewhere. You do not know exactly what happened down there. There are two sides to every story. I am not a big fan of him, but if he is going to be our next coach then everyone needs to support him! Or we will be doing this again in another three years! No coach is going to succeed without everyone being unified! I find it unbelievable that some people do not understand that! The case with RR should tell everyone that we need to support the next coach. Michigan is a great university with a traditional football program, we are not an elite college football program right now. We have the resources to be one but right now we are not because we lack a coach and our fan base is divided. Some people need to get off their high horses and open up there eyes just a bit. Bo is not around anymore, this is not the BO, Moeller and lloyd era anymore and this "Michigan Man" term is going to kill me if I hear it one more time! If it is Les MIles or not let that person prove to be a Michigan Man!
Michigan to do well. This football program is something very passionate to me and the others on this board. I just find it very disturbing that this program is not being destroyed from the outside, but the inside. I just think these higher ups need to stop being selfish and put away personal agendas for the better of this program. Sorry about the exclamation points, but in my head I was yelling.
But not the integrity of the program.
about the integrity of the program. I am pretty sure that is DB and MSC's job to make sure Les knows what may have been acceptable down there is not in Ann Arbor. Do you really think DB does not address this stuff in the interview or hiring process??
It takes some real balls to call anyone "morally unfit" to coach or do any job. I hope you all live in titanium houses. Yes, if what the ex-LSU player in the video says is true- IF- that is poor behavior and nothing I want happening should Miles come here. But I would never presume that just because something is on ESPN that their version of the story is the correct one. Apparently some of you do. And have no problem blasting the character of a guy you don't know. Interesting fan base we have here.
And FWIW, the former LSU AD had this to add about Les (sorry if you've seen this posted a thousand times already):
“He has a lot of morality, you don’t find it in many people, let alone many coaches. He won’t try to make more money by pretending that he wants to go to Michigan. That’s extraordinarily rare. I was an AD for a long time. Some coaches they really don’t want to go, but pretend they do.
“He’s a classy guy, a wonderful guy, a great father and a great community member. Yeah, sure he could be a good coach at Michigan, but I don’t think so.”
Yea, I know, consider the source...but I'll concede that this "source" knows a hell of a lot more about the person he's talking about than any of us do huddled in front of our computers thousands of miles away. Just sayin'
For a second I thought that said Platypus and I was going to agree. Who doesn't like a platypus? Also, is there a funnier word than the plural of platypus which is platypuses? End totally off topic rant.
No one needs to be David Brandon or a diety to understand that. Did you even watch the video?
I support Les Miles already. I also think it would be super cool to have a coach with his insatiable sexual appetite and lack of regard for the safety of himself and others during his attempts to satisfy that unquenchable desire for depravity.
Also would be cool if he banged Tressel's wife and told everybody about it (i.e. told me so I could anonymously post it on the internet).
I need a firm spanking.
One of the top recruiters in FBS, we need Les!
. I am just wondering what makes you fit to make that distinction. Is it your 3529 MgoPoints?
The Big Ten doesn't oversign b/c it doesn't want kids to be used the way Miles has. My logic is no different than the Big Ten's logic. Also, most moral and ethical systems consider lying to be wrong, so...
The Big Ten doesn't oversign because they have strict policies against it. Miles does it at LSU because SEC guidelines allow for it.
Not all programs did it before the rule. Not all SEC programs even do it now.
Not saying it's right...but almost all the SEC schools do it.
So it's ok...
Good moral lead you're taking.
Hey, if the law allows me too whats stopping me? I mean really, he's doing nothing wrong and he's following the rules and doing what he's allowed to do.....
I'm not letting that Outside the Lines report dictate whether or not I want to bring a great coach.
The rest of us? Morals.
He is a god among men who laughs at your silly mortal notions.
I have morals. Trust me. That being said, if I'm within the rules I don't question what I'm doing. Listen, get it. What Miles did is a little bit shady, but every program in the country has some shady dealins going on. It just so happens that his were highlighted on National Television.
Of the dorms after you've told him to come play for you as ok, because the rules permit it? No feelings for the kid you're supposed to be taking care of at all? As long as it helps you win, I guess. Or better yet...would you send your son to play for him?
I would allow my 18 year old son choose where he would want to play football.
Actually, the coach is deciding for your 18 year old kid. Did you see how Les had a meeting with one of kids 11 days after his letter was sent out? That means 11 days earlier he already knew the kid had his scholarship revoked and in the meeting, Mr. Miles said nothing of the sort and it was business as usual. I don't know about you, but that is a dick move.
There is also the loss of scholarchips LSU is going to face due to breaking actual rules too.
"I have morals. Trust me." Nothing against you personally, but that just really cracked me up. If I had doubts about your morals, I'm not sure that the "trust me" would help too much.
Touche, does sound kind of douchy
That being said, if I'm within the rules I don't question what I'm doing.
That is not morality at all. That is just obeying rules or laws, and rules and laws are often constructed to benefit the constructor, and not from any moral basis. You really should question what you're doing, even if what you're doing falls within the boundary of rules and laws. Think civil disobedience for the greater good of humanity. I mean, come on, won't anyone think of the civil disobedience? We are not sheeple here. We are people here.
At this point, recruits who pick SEC schools have known for a while there is a possibility they might get bumped. If you are in the bottom range of recruits, you take what you get from going down there instead of somewhere in the Big10 or a less competitive school
That's my understanding, anyway. Do you really want a guy who does something bad just to keep up with the Joneses?
He won't do it at UM because he can't. Seriously, Miles is one of the best people we could bring in at the moment. Everyone keeps saying we need a coach to unite the fan base, he is the most realistic option and will get us as close to reuniting as possible. I just don't get why we as so picky, I feel like our elitism is spreading to the board and no one we hire will be good enough.
But it's ok, because he won't be able to break the "law" here?
Character is what you do when no one is looking.
I give up...Impossible to reason with. There is 1 instance that was reported. Crucify all the SEC coaches, they are immoral because they oversign.....which they are allowed to do.
And kick players off their team they promised to take care of...they are scum. It's all one year scholarships. You could just cut guys for not being good, NFL style. Doesn't make it right.
Better players come in, that means someone has to go. Miles could have handled it better, but I don't blame him for taking away someone's scholarship. Just because he offered someone who had great promise as a freshman a scholarship, doesn't mean he has to keep that promise. Maybe some of these kids aren't progressing.
When you recieve an academic scholarship you are expected to uphold a certain requirements, the same goes for athletic scholarships. This is why I don't blame him for cutting scholarships in order to bring in new players. A player that has been released from his scholarship at LSU will have no trouble playing elsewhere.
Especially that sophomore QB he cut that wound up at Northwestern State or whatever FCS school he ended up at. He definitely didn't have trouble playing elsewhere....I guess he shouldn't care that it was his dream to play at LSU.
Please stop talking. You realize he told a freshmen who had already moved into the dorms that he would either have to gray shirt or go elsewhere, right?
shortsighted reasoning. I suspect you'd feel slighted if it were you or your kid that got the hook.
I guess it just comes down to the fact that I want Miles in A2. I dunno. I am done arguing, I just thought it was a bold statement from the OP to say he is morally unfit to coach at UM.
Apologies all around.
Says all we need to know, about Les, and you.
I'm not arguing anymore...but you don't know me and you cannot make a full assessment of me based on a blog post.
At will. I don't need to know you. You're telling us all about yourself just fine.
A scholarship isn't a promise, I apologize for my choice of words. A scholarship is an agreement between two parties. LSU had the right to revoke that scholarship if a player wasn't living up to the standards of the scholarship.
I will, however, concede the point that the freshman who was told to gray shirt got the shaft.
I'd never thought I'd hope for somebody to get hit by a bus because of something they posted, but honestly, you are a dick.
By the way, I don't actually hope you get hit by a bus. I know though that you'll say I'm just as bad as yourself if I don't include this note.
Yikes. I'm for shutting this thread down. Getting a bit personal and out of hand.
In the words of Liz Lemon, "Shut it down!"
You're kidding right? There's one MAIN case that's portrayed in the piece. But several others are referred to.
Near as I can tell, LSU is losing 8 players this yr. Their current class has 21 guys. I'm assuming they'll add at least another 5 by NSD (they've average 25, but that's brought down by one yr where they took 13.) Assuming the ones leaving are all scholarship guys, that means they will be over by 18. Now of course some will quit, transfer, etc. But not 18. That means some guys will be getting the dreaded form letter mentioned in the piece.
I'm sorry, but I find THAT impossible to reason with.
PS - not all SEC coaches do it - Vandy and Georgia are actually pretty good about it.
So ESPN makes a documentary talking about Les oversigning and its considered 100% factual yet we have seen all week how maybe 10% of what they put out is true.
I encourage you to go look up the numbers yourself then.
All this oversigning is killing him. He's dying to get a job at a University where the worst thing he can do is practice too much.
Let's bring this poor fool home. It's for the best for all of us.
search 'miles' and he's a frequent hit. the numbers don't paint a pretty picture for Les. there are arguments for oversigning as it's allowed in the SEC and the "everybody does it ergo competitive advantage" all the way to how Georgia Tech left the conference
Bobby Dodd insisted there was no other reason he left the SEC, other than the 140 Rule. The 140 Rule stated a college program could only have 140 football and basketball players on scholarship at any one time. The teams were allowed to sign up to 45 players a year, but could not exceed the 140 Rule.
really quite interesting stuff.
beyond the morality of the man the question remains: as the B1G doesn't have SEC 'rules' how well could he recruit here and thusly field a team on par with his Tigers teams?
really man. All of the SEC oversign. What do you want him to do start losing and get fired. Pretty sure he wouldn't do that up here. It might not be the nicest move, but it is not against the NCAA rules. Would you rather UM continue to be a laughing stock in the NCAAF world? You are not going to find the perfect person to coach the team, so get off your high horse.
And they win more than Les. And yes, I'd rather lose than cheat and treat players like garbage.
I agree oversigning is terrible. But come on with the "Florida doesn't do it" response. They had 30 guys arrested in the 6 years Meyer was there. They are not a squeaky clean program either.
And the reasoning you have to do it because everyone does it. So that has nothing to do with anything.
I think it speaks to a broader attitude in the south of win at all costs. That's my point. You can say Florida doesn't oversign kids. But you can also say LSU doesn't let massive amounts of arrested players play. There's a culture down there that promotes this type of behavior. That's why I think it's silly to present Florida as a clean example of running a program. You can't just ignore the environment they are in to try to succeed.
And we have to play SEC schools, you're saying we should start cheating too?
Because if so, you've been watching the wrong program all these years.
But nice use of the classic slippery slope fallacy. I was merely pointing out that your use of Florida to distinguish LSU as a dirtier program doesn't hold water. I like having standards as well. Even if it means taking it on the chin with the national media come bowl season.
And do we really have to resort to the "You're not a Michigan fan if you disagree with me?" retort. That really gets old. What makes you the authority, your 30000 MGoPoints?
It was Bo's viewpoint, who's molded the program into what it is. Les didn't listen to him. You didn't have to either. It just sounds like you'd be happier with a program that cheats and wins more. And I'd rather than you happy than being happy seeing Michigan's program tainted.
so you can't hang your hat on them, that isn't allowed at UM either. Try another SEC school.
Other schools cheat one way, so LSU has to cheat another way? Your justifications keep changing. The fact is, it doesn't matter what other schools do. You don't do wrong just because others are doing it. If you can't succeed there without it, and you think it's wrong, take a job somewhere else.
Suppose a parent told you that the only way you could get his/her 5 star #1 overall prospect was to say that this kid would be a guaranteed starter in the first game. Would you lie and say yes? You would be lying because you know you can't guarantee a starting position but you figure the odds may be very low that you are lying, so you do it anyways.
Dating and recruiting are essentially the same thing, you are pimping yourself and the school to be a great mate to the girl/recruit, so you lie about certain things at first in order to make a point to prove down the road that you are not so bad after all. Do you think every kid is going to love practice and do you think every coach is going to say "yeah, our practices are brutal and i don't think any person has ever enjoyed our practices along with the extremely high demands we put on each athlete too." Bo had like 20 kids quit the football team, so I wonder if Bo was lying to people who joined Michigan football since Bo should have known some kids wouldn't be able to handle it. Damn that Bo...he did not have the kids's best interests in mind!!!
If several people came forward and said Bo lied to them during the recruiting process, would your opinion on Bo change? Some of those people may be thankful to Bo and some of those may resent Bo...but does it matter?
That's exactly what boy did. "I'm going to treat all you men the same...like dogs!" He didn't hide it was going to be tough. "I demand a starting spot"? "Go play elsewhere, son, because at MICHIGAN you will compete for your job!".
So thanks for making our case for us. Bo would never do things like that. Which is why Michigan wouldn't. And why you've shown you have no understanding of the program.
So, which players would you like to kick off the football team?
sweat! we lose out on a NC winning coach candidate bc Erik, who I remind you is an expert on Big Ten and SEC recruiting and coaching practices, as well as the sole decider of where the moral boundries are when Michigan Football is involved. Thanks. We could have made a mistake. Bring on Hoke
Also, do you want Michigan to lie to kids? You don't have to be an expert on anything to be against that.
It won't happen here man, the Big Ten does not allow it. Seriously, why is this so hard to understand. He played by the rules at LSU, sometimes life isn't fair.
Why don't you understand that we don't want a guy who lies to kids about their futures as Michigan's coach? Life being unfair doesn't give you an excuse to defraud people.
You tell him, sorry son, life isn't fair.
I think, as has been mentioned above, we can stipulate that oversigning will not happen at Michigan, even if LM is coach.
That being said, the SEC is a lot like the real world. (I responded to M-W rather than Erik, because his post is entirely apropos.) In the real world, life isn't (always) fair.
Let it go, Erik. If Brandon hires Miles, are you going to stop rooting for Michigan?
....For me to reply to someone else's post, should it come. To be clear, if a business extends three offer letters, but only has two positions budgeted. you can bet that, however it is done, only two people will be hired. Bottom line.
It won't happen at Michigan. MSC won't allow it. DB won't allow it. And, if he's hired, LM won't allow it.
You can draw that line in the sand all over yourself, Erik. But if Miles is Michigan's next coach...
...Which football team are you going to root for?
It's not that I'm worried that Miles will cut guys at Michigan. But I am concerned that the kind of lack of character that cutting guys demonstrates will show up in other ways and hurt players. There's no need for Michigan to take the chance.
As for your avatar, doesn' t Homer have a crayon stuck in his brain?
Amen. B1G rules would prevent LM from realizing the oversigning shenanigans he has at LSU. But that's like saying "well now that we have child molester X in custody, he won't be a molester anymore." OK, yes - a bit of hyperbole. Nevertheless, the sentiment is the same. Character is character and it doesn't/shouldn't change with the circumstances.
I'd rather we lose our on that and still be able to look ourselves in the mirror.
Les Miles doesn't have a reflection.
Also, if he was here right now you'd already be dead. Luckily Brandon is interviewing him and Brett Bielema in Dallas.
You have to have a soul.
See that banner up at the top of the screen? That is a real picture. Les Miles made Brian's head explode. With his mind. He can do that. Why do you think the site has been so slow lately?
For your own safety, get off his bad side before it is too late.
"Learning right from wrong". I learned it as a kid. Obviously some are still working on it. Some even coach.
To your question of whether something might be legal/lawful without being moral... I would refer you to the many fine articles, books, etc. that have chronicled our latest economic 'situation.' You may (or may not) change your answer to that question.
Well, frankly morality is something that no book can answer. So, yeah. You got me there. Good on you. You've got to come up with your own gauge for morality. So, if I implied any sort of moral certitude in my post, I apologize. I cannot answer "what is moral?" You need to come to your own conclusion.
As for the second question - "why is anybody's version more credible than another's?" Well, I would say that depends in large part on the information available. And in this particular case, I feel there's a fair amount of publicly available information that can lead to certain conclusions. If you disagree, so be it. Then yeah, your conclusions will be different and we will not agree. But the facts will still be the same. At which point it will be a disagreement about what is or isn't moral. *shrug* some may find your view correct - others might agree with mine. But at the end of the day, it's still just opinions. You're welcome to yours, as I am to mine.
Regardless, Go Blue!
Man, c'mon. Stop acting all "holier than thou." What would Jesus say about your constant judgement of our characters through internet blogging?
Moral certitude in athletics starts at 5,000 MGoPoints.
apparently meta-ethical certitude starts somewhere in the 4200s!
Seriously? You can stop now.
And jim Harbaugh is a saint.
"de plane...de plane!..."
Wow...we sure do have some irrational fans! Was today a bad day for our beloved Wolverines...yeah sure, but c'mon....people take a deep breath and relax. We will have a coach by mid next week at the latest and any of these kids that were leans (unless the are early enrollees) will still be in the fold. There have been plenty of surpises right up to signing day in the last decade.
And one last thing....WHOEVER THE COACH ENDS UP BEING....can we PLEASE be a united front. We have enough forces working against us already....let's not throw logs ont he fire.
I'm happy to be irrational if it means wanting Michigan to have integrity.
Who fucks over his own players.
This guy deserves it.
Plus ten for guy advocating unity....
any of these kids that were leans (unless the are early enrollees) will still be in the fold.
This isn't FantasyLand®, most of our top recruits verbally (and some very publicly) have committed to other schools.
I am completely onboard with supporting the staff fully ONCE THEY ARE HIRED. But until that time, I think it's perfectly reasonable for anyone to express their opinion for or against any candidate.
But yeah, once they sign on the dotted line and indicate their desire to be Michigan's Head Football Coach - Then I agree everyone should just swallow any ill feelings and get behind the TEAM.
now that RR is gone we need to present a united front.
Well Brandon is not down in the Bayou buying cajun food for sure... he's there to try & secure Miles as a HC. If he does, hopes he locks up & brings Chavis with him.......Now the issue of what the guys at www.wjob.com is taking place.... a Miles decision expected within 48 hours, (from last night's) game... so we will see it will either be yea or nay.....
If we hired Bobby Petrino...I'm not sure I could support him as Head Coach. He is literally the only reason I ever briefly considered rooting for OSU(I know I know, neg as needed)
Should I start the Pat-Ter-Son chant? Or do you want to?
Harbaugh decommitted from the 49ers??
But seriously, list:
Patterson (extension signed)
Bielema (Hell no)
Tressel (Hell no)
Chizik (Nope again)
Petrino (highly doubt it)
That leaves...Stoops (!!!!!!)
Why do you think it has to be a HC? It could be one of the assistants
The vagueness of Twitter. I'm gonna let wlubd answer that.
Assuming that's the case and it's a head coach, the list would be:
Stoops-Maybe but not realistic IMO.
Assume that leaves Patterson, Petrino and Stoops in that order of likeliness. I'll still hope for Patterson but looks for all intents and purposes to be Miles.
EDIT: Beaten to it. By 5 minutes. How the hell did it take me that long to type this?
I only regret that I have but one neg to give for this post.
- Nathan Haleffe
who act like being a michigan man is such a big deal will gladly overlook much of what les does just because hes a michigan man. they held richrod to such high standards because they didnt like him and they were looking for a reason to hate him
Do you like Michigan just because there helmets are blue? If the team doesn't stand for something, then what's the point?
to win football games. im not saying i want us to lower our standars, but dont be surprised when half the michigan fans you meet will accept miles with all his baggage because he is a) a michigan man and b) a winner
no one denies he was expected to beat state and tosu. i mean high moral standards. 20 minutes of extra practice time and half the fan base talks about how he has no morals. he had to pay a buyout to WVU and people say he has no class. etc
if harbuagh or miles come, those same people will not care if they leave and have to pay a buyout. what i'm saying is people will gladly overlook les miles oversigning and backstabbing players because he's "A MITCHIGAN MAAAAN'" while richrod was publicly ridiculed whenever he looked the wrong way at a reporter
for the sake of winning football games. he doesnt ditch players and oversign because he hates lsu, he does it because it helps him win because thats his job
Les Miles is NSFW/H/Kass! Hide yo kids, hide yo grass, hide yo hats, and hide yo recruits cuz Les Miles is one sketchy mother- [shut your mouth!]
I'm only talking bout the Mad Hatter [we can dig it].
Michigan will have to worry about undersigning (is it possible) if we dont lock up a viable option at head coach. If its Les Miles so be it.
ESPN is reporting as of a few minutes ago that BD is going to ask permission (or has) to talk to Les Miles.
I have no opinion on whether this is true.
However, I hope it is true because at some point we're going to need a coach who can at least attract a few recruits, i.e., DB may have boxed himself into a corner now NEEDING an impressive name coach just to keep the team together.
about who we are actually going to end up with but everyone knows that even if we hire someone senseless we should probably all not complain because last time 10% of the fans fretted very vocally over meaningless stuff we ended up right where we are now
(shrug) Don't know what to tell you.
For every violation and social faux pas, but now with Les it's "eh".
I don't think you've seen me make excuses for anything regarding Les Miles today, aside from criticizing the completely juvenile panic people are treating the possibility of him coming to Michigan.
And "overreaction", no?
Our identity in the "real world" is defined by the quality of the instituition...and that isn't changing. The quality of our football program is judged by wins and losses. And morality, last I checked, was judged individually by God. Nobody knows for sure what happened with Les - it's rumors. And even if it's true, we as bloggers lost the moral high ground as soon as we started spreading them on a message board.
So bottom line, I think we should give Les a chance if he's qualified (he is) and leave the morality judgements for the professionals.
They're not God.
Do you think any coach or program is dirty? If yes, how do you really know?
It's not rumors. And you don't need to be a diety to know that lying to kids is bad.
You will feel his wrath soon enough!
Every parent that tells their kids that Santa exists has no morals!!! They are lying to kids!!!!!! THAT IS "almost" like FRAUD!!
Is shady. Yes - point made and taken. I don't know that I would consider it immoral. Maybe I should, but I don't draw such a black and white distinction. The other alleged stuff with other coaches wives, etc - that's the immorality that I just don't want to even factor into my approval or disapproval since I'm not there, it's gossip, internet slander/libel, and who knows what all is involved. That's the part that I think is between man and your God. The NCAA stuff with oversigning - we gotta be careful there. But surely you can concede that the Big 10 restrictions would aid in controlling any shananigans up in AA on that issue? If oversigning is not going to be an issue at Michigan with Les, and we compartmentalize the rest of the rumors, the two "cons" left on Les that we're left with is:
- Clock Management
So if he has a couple hi-po's on his staff to address the former and a great OC to help him think clearly at the end of games, I guess we're just left with a coach who recruits talent, knows our tradions, and wins. Oh, and he eats grass.
Does that about sum it up?
He's not morally fit because he has NO morals!
All COACHES lie to kids. I've heard many stories about div I basketball and football recruiting. One player was telling me about Bobby Knight trying to recruit him, only to find out his coach is just like Bobby Knight and concluded that all coaches were like Bobby Knight anyways.
Whatever it is that coaches say to kids, they are lying because there is nothing they can guarantee to the kids that they will play or that they will have a fun time in practice or being on the team.
Look at Joe PA...OMG he won't let a qb transfer to another school!!!!! OMG He lied!! Get off your high horse and get over it. I'm sure you have lied to kids before and it is just part of life too. The smart person would lie to save his team and his job, no coach is going to put the interests of a kid above the team because he is paid to run a team, not to individuals. It is a meat market and that is life. Every coach has 1 person who had a bad experience that would haunt the coach for life, but there would be hundreds who had a great experience with the coach, so what is your point? Are we becoming a nation of wussies where we will monitor the intensity level of coaches screaming at their players/team...which is a pretty immoral thing to do!
As the attorney in the video notes, what he does is pretty close to fraud. No, I do not defraud kids. Do you?
Either it is fraud or it is not fraud. Who cares if it is close to fraud when it is not fraud. Also, scholarships are not guaranteed for 4 years because if I remember correctly, a scholarship can be on a year by year basis at the discretion of the coach. Think about all the football players on the team with scholarships then count how many of the players that do not have scholarships but may be promised one later if they are good enough. That would seem like fraud but it is not. It is just part of college athletics whether we like it or not. I think only 3 sports offer full ride scholarships, thus the rest of scholarships offered are way less and probably more likely to be abused but no one hears about it.
If you were a CEO of a company, trust me, you would be teetering on the edge of fraud daily as your sole responsibility is to the shareholders by virtue of profits. If you have to lay off 100 people who cost you a million dollars a year in salary in order to get 100 million in profits, you would do it in a heartbeat, and if you don't, you could be in big doo doo with your shareholders. People will still apply for a job at the same company regardless of what they did in the past anyways. Do you think a recruit is going to say "omg, yes i heard about that poor kid, I'm afraid he is going to do the same thing to me!"
Is that you?
It may come as a shock to you, but some people know right from wrong. It's too bad you're mom and dad never taught you.
I assume your parents never taught you the right/wrong way to use the word "your" and "you're?"
Suppose Les Miles was trying to do the "right" thing by making sure more kids could join his team, but *GASP* the evil NCAA empire would not allow it, thus Les had to do the bad thing and cut him?
Do tell, if you were in a highly paid position like a coach making a million dollars a year and an accident occured at a game or practice where your player was hurt, blinded and soon dying...and you comforted this kid...then this kid said..."dad, is that you?" Do you say "yes" or "no" to the kid, knowing that he was going to die anyways? Do you say "yes" and let the kid die being comforted, or do you become immoral and say "no" because you believe it is the wrong thing to lie and let a kid die in agony knowing his dad was not there comforting him? Do you even lie and say "I love you" to the kid when you really don't? You tell me what the right and wrong thing to do is, and I will lie and do the wrong thing by letting a kid know his dad was the one comforting him and die in peace, because I can live with that decision, regardless of whether people think it was the right or wrong thing to do. Do you kill 1 person to save the lives of 1 million people? Or do you say no I won't kill 1 person, but I'll let 1 million people die? Oh wait, we need have this question asked of all Michigan coaches in the future!!
color me naive but this pulling a kids scholarship to make room for a prettier girl doesn't pass the eyeball test. do we do much of this?
Caring about how kids are treated by the program makes me a sissy? Okay, I'm a sissy.
is that really your moral compass?
Pulling the kid's scholarship was bad. No doubt. My larger question is: Is the over-signing thing illegal (in the NCAA sense), or is it just a loophole the coaches exploited? In other words, could Miles et al eventually get sanctioned?
and Miles is not the worst offender, that would be good ol Saban
I will be fine with Miles as a coach. I have a feeling that he did a lot of what people think makes him morally questionable has more to do with trying to keep pace and win in a conference that spends most of its time looking for loopholes in NCAA regulations.
I doubt he'd bring that crap to the B1G with him. It's like a guy who's going down the highway at 80 when everyone else is going 95.
Or maybe that's just what I'm telling myself so I can rationalize it if he comes here.
DB may be forced into holding his nose, closing his eyes and hiring Miles. Desperate times call for desperate measures...
If you are one that believes Miles has no morals, is dirty or whatever, do you believe he is a "Michigan Man"?
Bo used it to say that he wanted Fisher to coach the basketball team rather than Frieder (spelling?), who had signed on to coach ASU. Basically, being a "Michigan Man" meant not having a contractual obligation to another program.
I want a guy who both does the right thing and wins. I hope that's what makes a "Michigan Man."
everything you read on the internet? or see in an ESPN video? To assault someone's morals you'd better be sure you are on solid ground. I'm assuming you've personally met Miles. No? Then leave it up to Brandon.
Miles told the kid things were going well for him after he'd already made the decision to cut him from the team. Then he told the media that the kid didn't have the desire to play football at LSU, which wasn't true. I don' t have to be Dave Brandon to see that that sucks.
I didn't see the video, but I've heard plenty of stories. My point is, do you know if this is a common occurrence or a rarity? Do you know if ESPN cherry-picked a particularly bad story and ignored good things he does? We can't demonize the free press (actually, we can) and then believe ESPN's version of a story. Also, maybe Les realized he made a mistake and went to his pastor for forgiveness. I'm just cautioning you not to make sweeping generalizations based on an ESPN video.
Ask the kid for forgiveness. Or, you know, at least return his calls.
Two specific cases are cited in the piece. One getting more time than the other. However, publicly available numbers regarding oversignings, etc. make it virtually impossible that they are the only two cases.
Watch the piece, do your own research, then make up your own mind. I fear too many here simply side one way or the other without any due diligence.
That's what the AD is for. Like he said, this is not a democracy.
Where were all the "let's unite behind our coach whoever he is" fans the past 3 years?
That's right, they were supporting RichRod.
They had a lot of applicants smarter than you, and had said "sorry, you're out...he's a better student than you are and will make our University look better...you can hook up with a community college, I'm sure", you'd have been ok with that? Competition after all.
Les Miles has won every competition he's ever participated in.
Dos Equis guy?
What about against Chuck Norris?
What about both of them, with Ditka?
-Beer is for women. Les Miles drinks only melted ice directly from the north pole. The extra boost of electromagnetism is an aphrodisiac. That is why Les Miles invented global warming. He is thirsty and likes to bone.
-Les Miles already killed Chuck Norris. That is why Walker Texas Ranger got cancelled and you don't see him in any of those shitty movies he used to make, like the one with that teenage girl from Seaquest who killed herself.
-Ditka may join Miles's staff at Michigan. Physicists are studying if so much power can exist in one place without altering the space/time continuum. That is why we haven't had a formal announcement of the hire yet. Math is hard.
i may not want miles but i'm also not a self-righteous douchebag.
jesus christ. this is college football after all.
Why even watch college football if you think everyone is dirty?
MIles screwed Moeller's wife, and lies to his players. William Clay Brandon screwed RR, and lies to the public. This is a match made in heaven.
And because I have been a MIchigan fan too long to stop now, I will support the team no matter who is in either position. It may make me feel a little dirty, though.
MIles screwed Moeller's wife
You are aware that this is nothing more than an internet rumor, right?
and it was only two pumps and a quiver and Les was out.
We know all this stuff already. Brian has posted front page articles on it with charts and numers. No one is here saying that Les is a saint. The problem is that Saint James has moved to the NFL promised land and left us wandering in the waste land while recruits (and players?) are moving elsewhere. Is Les perfect - hell no. Is he a very good coach who can save recuiting and maybe save the program - yes.
People on this blog have correctly pointed out that Rich Rod was never given a chance because people lined up against him before he got here. His character was attacked for leaving WVU in the first place, for not paying the WVU buy-out, for shreding some papers, for Pac-Man and Noel Devine, etc. This doomed his tenure here with many fans before it even got going. These kinds of posts are doing the same thing to Miles. So I am asking you to please stop. You have every right to your view, but consider the consequences.
If you want to be moralistic about it and say I am selling out the character of the program by supproting Miles if he is the coach, well, you have every right to have that view. However, in the real world, Harbaugh's bailing and Brandon's "plan" have totaly screwed us blind. We are where we are, and right now Les Miles makes a ton of sense.
Or maybe Gruden will get hired and a whole differnt group of people will pull out the knives to undermine him.
It's ok to cave in on your morals? That's when they serve you best.
I was just asking you not to undermine the next coach if it is Miles like people did to Rich Rod. Remember the whole support him when he is here thing?
In reality, Rich did try to screw WVU out of a lot of money. Most people shrugged it off as a business deal gone bad that would get sorted out by the Courts. However, to some people, this was morally wrong. Did this disqaulify him as a coach in your mind? Maybe I missed your post back then. Or did you cave in on your morals because he was a good coach? For that matter, Harbaugh is divorced and has a DUI. To some, but not all, both of those are signs of a lack of moral values. Where was your post on Harbaugh?
You are no doubt thinking of the differences b/t Rich and JH and Miles. Let me save you some effort - I agree they are different. They will be viewed differently by different people. Moral judgment is subective. It allows one to determine an outcome and pass judgment in support of that decision. For example, I may feel that that your cheap shot at my morals after I just asked you not to undermine Les if he is hired is complete and utter crap. However, I respect your right to disagree and let's leave it there as I find blog flame wars a waste of time. Just please consider my request not to form or join a Jihad against Miles if he is hired.
a Les Miles hire will do anything but unite the fan base. Makes me wonder just how legit DB's press conference was when he discussed that very thing.
I think it's safe to say that a large majority of Michigan fans would welcome Miles with open arms. As it was regarding RR, this board is not a representative sample when it comes to perceptions of Miles.
True, people online are a poor representative of the fanbase, but every person I've told about Elliot Porter in person is now anti-Les.
Don't even bother to know what he's actually done. He's just that "ex- Michigan guy who's won". And a large percentage of them don't really care about right or wrong (obviously from this thread) and either don't remember Bo, or didn't listen to what he preached. We'd be better off if his books were required reading.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you.
I don't think the "average" fan knows anything about recruiting. Hell, they prolly don't even know what the scholly limit is or that there is one (let alone anything about the negative recruiting rumors, wife-banging rumors, etc.) To those fans all they'll see is Les Miles with a NC under his belt and a boatload of SEC wins. So, while I may not think he's the best fit for us, I'm guessing a ton of more casual fans will be thrilled with the idea.
would not welcome Miles with open arms. See how that works? I can make claims with zero evidence also.
I will grant you that my sample size is small. A few relatives, some ppl I know that work at the U, some friends, etc. Prolly about 20-30 ppl total. But of those, I and one other are the only ones that follow MGoBlog or any other obsessive M-based media. Yet all of them are dyed in the wool Michigan fans. (newsflash - not following mgoblog does not mean you are not a fan.)
The impression I get from most of them is "Gee that Les Miles guy wins a lot of games and he's from Michigan! We should hire him!."
and see what they say. I don't think there will be an uproar if it's Miles, but that's because people don't know how he's pushed the envelope with the oversigning.
Are we really trusting Rosenberg and his homeys not to go all "Judas" on Miles? Are we? Fool me once...
I've read every post above and I can't believe some of this. I understand that Michigan stands for something special, afterall there is a Michigan Difference. But, the last coach we hired walked out on his team and didn't even tell them he was leaving. Many here are pointing fingers at a coach who has in the past pushed the envelope of the rules to the edge and in some cases apparently crossed some if not many ethical lines to try and keep up or get an advantage against his competition.
I'm not a fan of any of the bad things I have heard that Les Miles has done, but I am not about to play judge, jury and executioner when I have never spoke to him or witnessed the enviornment in which he lives. Lying to kids is bad, there is no two ways about it, but remember these kids lie to. How many times have we experienced some 18 year-old telling Michigan they are coming here only to sign with someone else.
We need to get off our collective high horses for a minute. College athletics is not some church altar where only the honest and chaste work and live. This is big business and it's all about money. As much as we all want to think it's about helping these kids get an education and preparing them for life, it's about filling a stadium, fielding a competitive team, selling the brand and getting to bowl games all to make more money and do it again. When they are successful at that, all those other sports that exist because of football, get to continue.
There are injustices throughout college athletics and backroom deals and players teasing coaches and then signing with someone else and leaving you in lurch with no QB. Shit happens and no one is morally perfect.
Maybe this time, this fanbase can behind the coach before he gets here and give him a chance to prove he's better than the critics make him out to be. In my mind, the shit that the "factions" at Michigan have pulled over the last week and the last three years have done some serious damage to a family and a football program.
Let's all take a step back and wait and see what happens before passing judgement. Remember, Tressel and his AD lied to everyone about the tat deal and the players are lying to OSU. It goes on everywhere. I think both sides know what they are getting into.
The players use the schools to get to the NFL and the schools use the players to make money.
Walked out on his team?
How about we let Mary Sue Coleman and David Brandon make this determination? If they're okay with him, why shouldn't we be?
0-2 and 0-1 on well organized coaching searches, excuse me if I don't trust their judgment.
To the folks saying we haven't met LM and we should just trust DB's judgement, does that still hold if he goes with Hoke?
To see the answers to this one.
A friend and fellow wolverine predicted at the beginning of the season that UofM would go 7-5 this season and RR would be fired. He was right, but how did that help the team?
If Brandon hires Hoke, what do you suggest I do? Renounce my University? Heck no. We've all just got to suck it up and come together for the benefit of the team. This past year, how many games did we start off on fire, only to come undone in the 2nd quarter after some mistake was made? So much of college football is attitude and momentum. This year's team was young and couldn't overcome the penalties and turnovers. With a year of seasoning, (~19 starters return) they should be much better equipped to overcome the negative plays.
However, if they are playing in a less than full stadium, and the crowd is booing them and the coach, I don't see how that helps us get back to where we want to be.
Who's talking about renouncing universities? I'm talking about potential double standards based on the use of a blanket argument to deflect any possible criticism.
If Hoke is hired, I'm assuming that you were suggesting that we'd be crazy to trust Brandon. I might have trouble with the decision, but I plan to keep my yapper shut this time. At least until February.
I'm suggesting that some people saying "trust DB" in the context of hiring LM are making that point only because they want LM to be the coach, and that they wouldn't be making that argument if this thread was about Hoke's shortcomings.
If hoke is hired I would buy the first "Hokus Pokus" t-shirt at MGoStore, suppot the guy and pray that he turns into the next Bo
If he hires Gruden, I would need to know where one finds a Chucky doll these days.
If he hires Pa(e)tterson, I would support either of them too.
You see, I am a Michigan fan. I loved the team when it coached by Bo, by Mo (who drove me nuts), by Carr, and by Rich Rod. I will continue to love the team. This isn't about scoring points on a freaking blog.
[Edit - wow, did I have typos on this one. It is too late for me, folks. Good night all. Go Blue!]
I'll be a fan of the team no matter who the coach is too. Doesn't mean I should look the other way no matter what any individual member of the organization does. You've got to have some standard somewhere. I mean, to extrapolate to something silly: if the next coach was Ted Kazinsky, would you be running to the MGoStore for your UnaCoacher hoodie?
It's not black or white. Nobody's perfect and there are two sides to every story. This is about where you draw your line in the sand in the gray region. LM isn't even willing to talk to his own players about what he's done. To me, that's a big deal.
Les Miles is from Krypton. They don't have any kind of signing limits there so he is adjusting to a new environment.
This also explains his incredible sexual prowess and superhuman strength.
How much have you been drinking tonight?
I just snapped about a day and a half ago after the tenth "OMG is there any truth to those rumors about Miles and Moeller's wife?" post I read.
After that I figured, in this information free environment, reinventing Les Miles as a superhuman sex maniac would be much more productive than anything else I could do with my time.
After reading this thread on Les Miles I was amazed. I hope all you moral people standing in judgment of LM make it to church today, read the part in the bible on standing in judgment. I not going religious on you I’m saying you are talking a lot of morals here could you stand up to the review? I love to see a lot of these accusations backed up with facts you may come up with a couple but most of this stuff is just rumors.
Or read any of Brian's post breaking it down?
I don't think you have to be religious to have morals. But I'm sure I could stand up to the test some of these people posit, of not lying or cheating in business, or worse, people who trust you and are supposed to be part of your family. (Players). I think it's far sadder that the Pryor "everybody murders" rant seems to be the philosophy of a lot of people. And that they want Michigan's program to follow it.
And I'm sorry that Bo apparently isn't only dead...he's forgotten.
Go talk to Michigan fans face-to-face. Show them or tell them about the video. The difference between the anonymous fan opinons online and what you run into in-person is like night-vs-day.
They wrote Les Miles out of the entire story just because Miles has better abs than Jesus.
I'm not arguing that Les Miles won't get into heaven or that he'll be reincarnated as a worm. I'm arguing that his behavior suggests that he isn't fit to the lead the team.
I imagine that at least some pattern of behavior by a person would lead you to believe that a person was unfit to coach the team, even if it wasn't Miles.
guy played by the sec rules can't we all understand that.If he comes to Michigan he will not do that.
Well, hello there. You're right. We are pretty terrible. Thanks for pointing that out. Your argument is so convincing that I just became a MSU fan. I will now walk the earth, jobless and dumb, until I am thrown into a ditch and spit on by my own mother, a mother who eats seven desserts a day and fucks cowboys because their boots are shiny.
Every day I tell myself there is no way MGoBlog can be more entertaining than it was yesterday. Then, a thread like this comes along and raises my entertainment standards. No way this gets topped tomorrow.
In August 2005, days before Miles was to make his debut as the coach of LSU, Hurricane Katrina struck southern Louisiana.
Coincidence? I think not. Les Miles is THE DEVIL.
Not to start a political debate but to me it's a lot like Cash for Clunkers. I knew a fuckton of Republicans and conservative friends/relatives who were against the program/Obama but still took advantage of it. Why? They got a great deal. Les does this because it's the norm in the SEC, especially at top flight programs. If you want to compete with Saban it's going to be very, very hard to do it without doing this.