http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:8887023
We've had the discussions about the dangers of playing football so I won't rehash. More former players need to come forward and if they did i'm sure it would reveal the fact that this is more of a problem then most people believe.
This is awful
Saw that this AM ..... it was tough to watch
I have warm memories of him dominating down the stretch to win the 1989 Rose Bowl for Michigan ........
but it's hard to reconcile that with a guy who's still only 44 (!!) years young and whose wife is saying "sooner rather than later, I'll be his caretaker instead of his wife." Because football's part of why that's so. Ugh.
With Derrick Green
With Derrick Green committing, everyone keeps saying that he reminds them of Leroy Hoard, so I've been watching some old highlights of his lately and it's been fun.
Go Blue! Always!
Indiana in 88 was a break out
Indiana in 88 was a break out game. Hoard and Boles were Thunder and lightning long before those 2 jokers from the southern part of Cali.
Leroy
One of my all-time favorite Michigan Wolverines.
Bunch + Leroy = Manball x 10
"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" - Groucho Marx
You would think...
that researchers at U of M Hospital would invite warriors like Leroy back to A2 for participation in research and to receive treatment.. I'm sure there might even be a radio show for him to participate in.
An important question; and some perspective needed.
I'd like to know what differences your researchers might see, between guys who played college football only, and guys who played 10-year NFL careers like Leroy Hoard.
I'm sorry for his joint pain and peripheral neuropathy, but I feel certain that those things are unrelated to head trauma.
I have grave doubts that anybody should be playing NFL football. But at the same time, I also question whether there is an epidemic of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy in collegiate and high school football. I'd like to see some high-quality epidemiology done on that subject. My own suspicion is that long careers in the NFL pose a bad risk. And that lower-level football (with modern concussion protocols in place) is a far, far lower level of risk.
I confess that I am very much bothered by the possibility that the depredations of the National Football League will screw things up for the rest of football.
I don't have...
...the article handy to cite, but there was news of a college player who died a year or two ago (suicide?) and he had already quite a bit of the brain damage despite only being about 21 years old. It was considered something of a watershed case because it clearly indicated that the brain issues were affecting players much younger than expected.
As I read more about this stuff, I'm really beginning to feel that maybe it's time to put an end to football. Sorry, but it just feels like the party is over.
The research into football
The research into football and brain damage is in its infancy. The evidence so far doesn't look good, but it's far too early to start calling for the end of football until other less drastic measures are explored.
I remember
I was listening to ESPN Radio when the head injuries first started to be brought to light.
I think it was Mike Golic and he was talking about how he'll get a burger and a beer from his kitchen and when he sits down and takes a drink he's got the sandwich, and the beer is in the microwave.
He said that it scares the life out of you knowing this damage has occured but you can't do anything about, there's no way to fix it.
That's depressing.
That's depressing. But good to know what's going on with him. I haven't seen many interviews with Leroy over the years.
Go Blue! Always!
Awesome video. This is a
Awesome video. This is a perfect comparison for Green, as well. Their size, playing style, and highlights are nearly identical. Hope Greens future is as bright, and free of the after effects that Hoard suffers from.
"that's why you don't go to Ohio State, Lawrence"
I played a lot of intramural
I played a lot of intramural flag football, I am coming forward to say I have not had any problems... Yet.
Eat a bag of dicks.
Eat a bag of dicks.
Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis.
You, of all people, I would
You, of all people, I would have expected to have written that in Latin.
John Navarre, John Navarre, he is John Navarre
(to the tune of Jingle, Bells)
So you've now made fun of the serious health problems
of a former Michigan player and alum. Well done.
What's next on your agenda? Mocking those who died from cancer, like the late Jim Mandich? Laughing at leukemia patients like the late Tom Slade? Or maybe make fun of those with heart problems, like Bo.
Asshole.
you sir are a prime example
Of the uptight, overreacting pricks that make up a large part of this boards population.
How is he making fun of leroy hoard? Hes making fun of himself more than anything.
Get laid, have a beer or something, jesus christ
Very depressing
You can tell he is a smart and thoughtful person who doesn't deserve this living hell. I wish him the very best.
"I don’t wanna live in Rainbow Land, and you can’t make me!"
God, how horribly, horribly
God, how horribly, horribly sad. (And on a trivial note, sorta ironic that his two buddies are both Buckeyes.)
Leroy
I knew Leroy pretty well in college. He and Tracy Williams lived two doors down in S Quad and we hung out some. I could tell a lot of cool stories here but i won't.
Pains me to see this. Leroy is an incredibly intelligent and decent guy and was always fun to be around. I know he comes to this board so I'm sure the kind thoughts would be appreciated.
This hits pretty close to home. Gotta really think about letting my boys continue to play football.
Tracy Williams
There's a blast from the past. Anyone remember his goal line fumble at the end of the Iowa game in '88?
"[T]here were a lot of people predicting glorious heights for Rich; mostly the same people who are predicting doom and gloom [for Hoke]. Excuse me if I doubt their prognostication skills." -- M-Wolverine
I decided long ago that my
I decided long ago that my future kids will not play football. It just always seemed obvious to me that bashing your head against a wall for 60 plus minutes a week would have some effects. This just makes me more sure of that decision. Incredibly sad. I'm not sure if its a double standard to then enjoy watching football so much, but what can I say.
"Michigan Defense" is dominating everything, in every aspect of life. That's a rough definition.
-Craig Roh 10/29/2011
Honestly feel guilty
I mean, at what point is my entertainment worth watching guys scramble their brains? I've heard suggestions before that removing the helmets from the game might actually help because the players wouldn't lead with their heads and wouldn't have nearly as many full speed collisions.
He's only in his 40's, for god sake.
.
I've thought about that before too. I'm not sure about completely removing helmets but I'm starting to think the thick leather hats are probably safer than the helmets now.
"I have three kids and no money. Why can't I have no kids and three money?"
double post
double post
I can't get the video to
I can't get the video to work. Is it on YouTube?
Tough Watch Indeed...
That was a very tough watch, and I found the part about how he writes the names of Waters, Duerson and Seau on each notebook so that he "never forgets". That was very, very poignant to me and that makes me wonder how many of stories like Hoard's are still out there.
It is incredibly difficult to imagine someone only a decade older than you facing mental and physical deteoriation on a scale like that. There's an almost bitter irony too in him doing a radio show about the sport he loves still and yet is responsible for his mounting problems.
"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."
Follow the random tweets of a Michigan alum - http://twitter.com/#!/LorneEC3
My first and only M jersey is
My first and only M jersey is a 33 Hoard jersey from my youth. Still hangs in my closet although it doesn't fit. God bless Leroy.
The Team, The Team, The Team.
Watch the "30-in-30" special
"American Man" when it comes on ESPN Classic later today...it definitely made me do a bit of soul-searching to the point of where I'm pretty sure that letting my son play football (hockey, also) is off the table...I'm also beginning to wonder if by watching the damned game I'm a contributing factor to the injuries these men are inflicting upon each other.
Agree with you
Fyi, my son plays soccer and we really went over proper heading technique when he was old enough to head. I played my whole life and ref nowadays seeing awful technique, especially in girls, which could definitely give concussions. You never see retired pro soccer players doing stories like Leroys. Anyway always make sure your son is with a knowledgable coach who is also a responsible parent. Educate yourself on real dangers.
My son also is a swimmer. I thought this was the most boring sport in the world when he started a 7. As I became more educated, understood the work required to be good at it, and how close many HS teammates are, I am very thankful he will probably choose this as his only sport next year. The kids are all ripped, there is no dangerous stress, and it is something they can do for a lifetime.
"I don’t wanna live in Rainbow Land, and you can’t make me!"
Easy solution: helmet-helmet
Easy solution: helmet-helmet hits= automatic 2 game suspension. Allow roster expansion, and allow people in and out of games more fluidly. Most people dont watch the game for defensive players anyway.
The state pays for it, it is
Most helmet to helmet are not intentional
It's usually a result of offensive players bring their head down. Not easy to say it's an automatic suspension
Am I overreacting?
I loved to watch football at the HS, college, and pro level but there are too many stories like Leroy's and I am very conflicted. I don't buy the proper tackling technique argument that can avoid these kind of head injuries. The sport seems too random to control collisions. When played "right" it is just a violent game. Even at the high school level kids are getting bigger, stronger, faster and the collisions are more and more violent.
At the pro level, they are playing too many games for the greed of owners and our entertainment as we sit on the couch. Nobody, regardless of how tough they are, can take this kind of punishment.
After watching the Patriots RB taking that blow last Sunday, I just thought that this is enough. Now Leroy's story and others like his are becoming common place. How can we let our sons play this game?
btw I honestly feel Manti Teo has taken too many blows to the head already.
"I don’t wanna live in Rainbow Land, and you can’t make me!"
The players make more money with those games as well
But here's the thing, the stories don't represent the actual numbers. NFL players do have a higher rate of problems than the normal population, but it's not nearly as big of a gap as it's been made out to be. You could have 8 or 9 stories of guys being fine or having minor issues for every terrible one.
http://archneur.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555584#qundefined
To be honest, there are a lot of jobs that pay a heck of a lot worse that have long-term effects. I wish Leroy the best, and I think it's terrible that some people have problems, but I guess I just don't see why anyone would be shocked that playing 10 years in the NFL isn't good for you.
Even with the small sample size
the conclusion doesn't jive with your comment. It said : Results Of the 34 former NFL players, 20 were cognitively normal. Four were diagnosed as having a fixed cognitive deficit; 8, mild cognitive impairment; 2, dementia; and 8, depression... I'd say if over 40% of players had depression, dementia or fixed cognitive deficit that is not insignificant.
"Money made" doesn't justify these statistics and it is different too in that we view this as our entertainment.
"I don’t wanna live in Rainbow Land, and you can’t make me!"
No, not overreacting at all.
All football fans should probably be asking themselves these questions.
Personally, I think I'm pretty much done with the sport. I already don't go to games and I rarely watch any on TV. Other than checking up on scares & recaps (mainly for watercooler-type small talk), I don't really support the game at all and now, I'm thinking that I should probably even cut that out too.
Gosh, I really feel for
Gosh, I really feel for Hoard. And I think the NFL ought to be doing more for its former players.
When I was fresh out of law school a long time ago, my firm represented one of the former Lions O-Linemen who'd started on their 50s championship teams. This was in the early 70s, so he hadn't been out of football for more than 15 years or so. He'd been a star. By 1975, he couldn't walk without two canes or a walker.
I remember being shocked to see one of my heroes in that kind of shape.
He certainly couldn't do much in the way of work, and in those days pro ball didn't pay what it does today. So he needed our help.
Of course the Lions, being the Lions, denied him any workers' compensation. And it had to be litigated. I remember being disgusted with the team, yet somehow remained a football fan, and thought, "Well, that's football."
Honestly, I'd like to see some safety reforms, because I'm beginning to feel like an ancient Roman at the gladiatorial games - where incidentally, the vast majority of fights were not to the death (gladiators and their training were too expensive to waste). We see some pretty serious injuries, and it seems like they happen with nearly every game. We accept it. I dunno why.
Unfortunately
Injuries are part of the game. If you don't want to get hurt then don't play.
Injuries are part of the game
So you think that permanently damaging your brain is just like blowing out your knees or having chronic back problems?
I agree. We're just learning
I agree. We're just learning about the brain damage.
I will say that blowing out your knees isn't great, either.
I knew Leroy back in school.
I knew Leroy back in school. Good dude. I feel bad that he and his family have to endure this. He certainly is handling this with a lot of poise and grace.
Best wishes.
That sad
That sad
sad to see
wishing Leroy and his family much strength and joy in their ongoing journey
GO BLUE!
I wore #33 in high school
I wore #33 in high school because of Leroy Hoard. This made me very sad.
Class of '97: 4 Years -- 4 Four-loss seasons
Padding and head protection
I wonder whether all the "protective" equipment in football has made the sport less - or more - dangerous. Many runners are now finding that the barefoot/minimalist running shoes (Vibram, etc.) are actually better for correct running posture, stride, and minimizing injuries.
In football, if the players knew that they were not as well "protected", would their tackling, blocking, running techniques be different? Would they be more or less prone to injury?
The helmet made the head a
The helmet made the head a weapon. When your weapon contains your brain issues will arise.
Pronounced Ahh-Neh-Muh
In the head is the brain!
As former Tiger Pudge Rodriguez once said during an interview with WXYT: "If you throw at someone's head, it's very dangerous, because in the head is the brain."
"[T]here were a lot of people predicting glorious heights for Rich; mostly the same people who are predicting doom and gloom [for Hoke]. Excuse me if I doubt their prognostication skills." -- M-Wolverine
Best wishes to Leroy. I also
Best wishes to Leroy. I also had a few beers with him once. He was a happy dude. This is sad to hear...
Much respect to Leroy Hoard.
Much respect to Leroy Hoard. Here's hoping he keeps it together and has a long, happy and productive life.
Pronounced Ahh-Neh-Muh
Good Guy - Bad Ju Ju
feel bad for a guy like that who is a gentleman and a man's man, knowing that he's going to be slipping away at such a young age has to be very tough.
played until i was 42, but we only played 6-8 games/yr, and i was a tight end which takes less helmet to helmet hits than a back. my 2 older boys play, the 3 younger ones want to - might have to re-think how much i allow that. definitely have to watch very closely.
as an aside, i was at both of the games that wolverine historian posted pictures of at the top of the comments. those are great pictures.
God bless leroy. prayers to you and yours.
Quiverfull
I wonder how many other Wolverines are in the same situation who we haven't heard about. I have the feeling that football is going to be a very different game 25 years from now.