Since we are giving out Legends' Jersey Patches this late in the season to seniors like Kovacs, what say we give Roy Roundtree the #1 jersey for the last three games of his career (maybe four if something crazy happens)? Is it an insult to Desmond and the 21 patch to do so?
Legends Jerseys - #1 to Roundtree to End the Year?
I think Roy is probably more deserving of wearing the #1 jersey, then some of the previous wearers. I'm looking at you Tyrone Butterfield.
EDIT: However at this point in the season, just leave it alone.
That's because it wasn't a tradition when Tyrone Butterfield wore it. It was just another jersey number. It didn't become a "tradition" until Braylon Edwards.
It wasn't attached to an endowed scholarship before Braylon, but it definitely was a tradition before then. It's only been worn by wide receivers over the past 30 years: Carter, McMurtry, Alexander, Butterfield, Terrell, and Edwards.
Butterfield was actually a blue-chip recruit and was given the number as a freshman, possibly as a recruiting promise. The concept of "earning" the jersey didn't exist then, but it was understood that only a receiver would wear it.
I would disagree. It didn't have a scholarship attached to it before Braylon created it, and didn't have the "you make grades and work harder than anyone else in the group" tag until Carr made that a motivation for Edwards, but David Terrell requested it because of Carter and Alexander, and just from fan memory I felt it had meaning then. Even when it was just Carter's number it had meaning because it was the number of one of the greatest college football players ever.
Ondre Pipkins asked for #56 because of LaMarr Woodley. That doesn't make it a tradition.
I can't see them giving two Legends jerseys to the same kid in the same season. Getting the Howard jersey was honor enough.
That's not a fair way to evaluate them. Winning the Heisman is dependent on a lot of factors, including team success and whether or not there are other Heisman-caliber players out there. In Desmond's year, there were no other clear rivals for the Heisman, so he won easily.
Carter had more catches for more yards and more TDs than Desmond did in his career. He set a Big Ten record for receiving TDs that lasted over 20 years. To say he didn't have as good a career is very questionable. He played in an era when we didn't throw the ball that much. If we had passed as often as we did in the Grbac years, he'd have been a Heisman winner (I believe he was a finalist anyway).
Carter was a three time All-American, Howard made the list once. Also, looking at their pass offenses (starting QB's only, which isn't perfect but at least it doesn't count any garbage time against the receivers):
Carter was a much bigger part of Michigan's receiving game than Desmond was, over the course of their careers. You won't hear me say anything negative about Desmond's career, but the offense changed dramatically between Carter's non-freshman years and Desmond's.
Would have to be done at this week's game, so no.
He's earned #21. That is an honor. By upgrading him to #1, yes, that would definitely be an insult.
He's had two good games - I love his enthusiasm and attitude, but still, its been two games. Let him build the #21 status by continuing to play great.
Isn't Braylon supposed to be tasked with who wears the #1 because of the scholorship or something?
It's not his decision alone. It's also up to the coaches.
No. 1 is Braylon's endowed scholorship jersey and not a Legends jersey.
It's time to refund Braylon his money with a nice thanks but no thanks letter written attached.
That's okay - the money is probably just sitting in a bank account earning interest so it can pay for more scholarships down the road.
No, the endowment funds a scholarship every year. If someone wears #1, it goes to that player's scholarship specifically, but otherwise it just goes in the general fund.
Too funny! As if banks even paid interest these days.
Yeah, screw that guy for donating a boatload of money to the university!
...donated boatloads of money to the University. But it seems that Braylon is the only one to have attached a string to it.
...people donate money all the time to different organizations for a variety of reasons. Sometimes, as you assert, people donate just because they are altruistic. But I would contend that many people donate large sums of money with a string or two attached. As one tiny example, walk around the campus and see how many buildings have someone's name scrawled all over them due to their donation.
I don't think there really is any string attached. Braylon does not choose who wears the number. He was upset when RR wanted to give it to a DB, but I don't think the agreement specifically gave him veto power. RR didn't feel a need to contest the issue and let it go.
I don't think it's a case of not liking Braylon, or thinking he's done something wrong. But his scholarship has unnecessarily complicated handing out a jersey number. It's not exactly fair for the coaches
Anthony Carter has been getting little mention as the real legend for that jersey number.
I am disappoint.
wearing a legends jersey (and, yes, I think it would be an insult to Desmond to change).
Funchess has made some great catches and will be playing four years (and Treadwell isn't showing us the love).
Has a TE ever worn the #1 at Michigan? Would be unusual to give it to a TE.
Now that I think about it, we almost never hear about the #1 in any pre-Anthony Carter context. It's almost like it didn't exist before then which is odd given the length of U of M fooball history.
Now that I think about it, we almost never hear about the #1 in any pre-Anthony Carter context. It's almost like it didn't exist before then which is odd given the length of U of M fooball history.
AC made that number what it is.
|Angus G. Goetz||LT||1919-20|
|Robert Jerome Dunne||G||1921|
|Paul G. Goebel||E||1922|
The most coveted jersey number in Michigan football lure, the #1 has been worn by a total of 12 players during the 130-year history of the program. Three-time All-American Anthony Carter made the number popular when he wore the jersey during his player career (1979-82), and the #1 sweater has been given to a wide receiver five times since Carter adorned the number.
A Left Tackle wore it? Give it to Lewan! Its Tradition.
...that Greg Wilner, a kicker, wore #1 for U-M pre-Carter.
If Bo were still alive, he'd have just offered Treadwell the #1 jersey to get him to commit. That's what he did with Greg McMurtry, after all. Hoke obviously doesn't know Michigan Tradition.
I was thinking that Funchess would be the perfect candidate for Kramer's #87 jersey. I would think that Carter, Alexander, and Edwards would rather keep the #1 for a receiver. I also think that the #2 should be reserved strickly for a DB.
I have a feeling Funch Bunch will be rocking the 87 next year.
that it should be in honor of AC if and when it does happen. After all, if it were not for AC, then by the time Broaylon came around, the #1 jersey would not have had enough cache for Lloyd to be able to use it as a motivational carrot for Braylon (who wasn't exactly the most focused player his first 2 years). For me, when comparing two phenomenal players who meant a great deal to Michigan football, the best way to determine who was best is by asking, "If AC had never existed, would Braylon have reached his potential?"
Of course, he very well may have, but we will never know for sure. We do know that with the "carrot" he was able to reach his rather sizable potential.
(I only refer to Braylon and AC, because they are generally recognized as the two best who wore number one. DA, Greg McMurtry and David Terrell were all very good in their own right, but I am operating under the assumtion that everyone associates #1 with either AC or Braylon)
My thought was that they'll wait for someone really special for #1 (and #2) I think there will always be a #21 on the team and if someone gets to an elite level then we'll see the #1 jersey. But there won't necessarily be a #1 on every team.
I agree, with the addition of the #98 jersey.
After the mocking for my sig for years, someone finally suggests it.
When I saw the thread title I immediately thought of you: "I know one person who will be upvoting this"
My thought was that he was the guy who created the thread.
No I am not RDT but it was that exact tag line i thought of when Roy made the catch - I said to myself "Now maybe he WILL were the #1 jersey before he is done."
With all due respect(you can't just say that and then say whatever you want) there isn't anyone on this roster that should be wearing the 1 and I am really just sick of all this number and patch stuff. I love to honor the greats but Michigan has gone nuts with this. Kovacs will always be 32 to me.
Can't wait for the OT:we should make a Denard legend patch to honor the next great dual threat Michigan QB!
I couldnt agree with you more man, how are these players ever going to be remembered for what they do if everyday they are getting the past shoved down their throats, its ridiculous lets get away from the past so we can move forward.
Tradition is something you can’t bottle. You can’t buy it at the corner store. But it is there to sustain you when you need it most. I’ve called upon it time and time again. And so have countless other Michigan athletes and coaches. There is nothing like it. I hope it never dies.- Fritz Crisler
Wearing the Michigan jersey should be honor enough. And considering the reverence around here for "the team, the team, the team" it's also rather hypocritical to make such an effort at singling out individuals for extra recognition.
And the patches? Man, to me, that shit is beyond dumb and should remain the domain of scouts, not football players.
I think Michigan should have the number changes completed by Week 2 or 3 every year. I think Kovacs wearing #11 for less than half of the season is a little ridiculous. I like the Legends program but I would have expected Michigan to be a little bit more controlled with it.
In my opinion, Desmond's #21 is on the same level as Carter's #1, if only because of the Heisman trophy and what Desmond has gone on to do after college. To move someone to Desmond's 21 to Carter's #1 would be silly (even if I didn't think that the #21 is just as significant as the #1 jersey).
We're going to move Denard to slot WR and give him the #1 jersey for his final 3/4 games.
After being one of the most oustanding, gifted, and prolific quarterbacks and players in the history of Michigan football who if he had the defenses or WR's or RB's of any of the great 90's/00's teams or played in the watered down B1G of the 70's/80's for example Bo's teams with Demetrius Brown and Michael Taylor likely would have won several national titles by now and who was on many occasions the only bright spot in the worst stretch of Michigan football ever evar evar and whose humility and character embody everything great about even the most laughable stereotypes of what a Michigan Man is supposed to be but yes absolutely let's move him to RB/WR absolutely.
We need the old points system back so we can get this to the +100 it deserves.
That second paragraph is a single sentence, and yet contains only two commas. Talent.
if they were going to to give anyone the number 1 jersey it would've been at the beginning of the year, theyre not going to just change jerseys in the middle of the season unless its for a legend
I know this is completely unrelated but I figured it was worthy to share...
From the mgoblue website, "NIT Season Tip-Off -- The Michigan Basketball team welcomes Bowling Green, Cleveland State and IUPUI to Crisler Center for the NIT Season Tip-Off tournament. The Wolverines will play two games at Crisler Center during the tournament, and your game ticket for the first game against IUPUI will also be valid for the second game! (Second game will be played on Tuesday, Nov. 13, or Monday, Nov. 19)."
Tickets for the IUPUI game are on stubhub and are very cheap. I ended up getting them for $5 and that ended up being for 2 games!
If we're going to go all out with these legends numbers why not give Braylon the old heave ho and make the #1 jersey an Anthony Carter legend jersey
No one has earned that jersey yet. Funchess maybe after next year. You really have to prove yourself with this one. Zero room for let downs and errors. Wear #47 or #48 and miss a tackle, people will brush that off. But if you wear #1 and drop a pass, heaven help you.
Am I the only one hopeless confused about who is wearing what number this year and why? We have Legends, we have endowments, we have normal numbers but they really arent normal anymore because some players are now wearing Legends numbers.
And if I understand the OP, we're proposing taking one of players no longer wearing his normal jersey number because he's been given a Legends patch number and changing his number again to an endowment jersey? Do I have that right?
I'm no expert here but isnt it somewhat customary for players to get their own number and, unless they flip positions or request a change, KEEP that number through their time spent at the school? This whole thing might've looked good on paper but at least for me is confusing as Hell. And FWIW my 9 year old doesnt get it either as he had to ask Kovacs on Saturday what his "real" last name was when he met him.
I think they should go to incoming freshman, unless there's a Braylon situation where it happens to be open and an upperclassmen requests it. Honestly, I will not be surprised if, after Kovacs, Ryan, Roundtree, Moore (although Funchess probably gets it, so Funchess), and Morgan graduate they start getting issued to players before they play their first games at Michigan.
This is what happened with the number one for a couple decades, and I don't really get the opposition to it. If someone gets the 21 or 1 and isn't a lights out All-American, does that really hurt any of the legacy behind those numbers? If you're going to make the requirement that the player is looking at an All-American type season as a junior or senior before giving it out, you seriously will not have any other numbers in consideration for honoring. The worse thing is that you also have all these numbers in the weird position of not being worn and not being retired, which I think could hurt the legacies of these numbers.
I agree that this would be the best way to handle it, but I just don't see that being Hoke's style. Giving legends' jerseys to unproven recruits rather than those who have worked hard in practice and shown their abilities on the field doesn't seem likely.
I respect that, but it really does muddy the waters. It also eliminates a potentially useful recruiting strategy, if you believe recruits care that much about the jersey #s of folks who played before they were old enough to watch football.
in his own mind. From my perspective, these are basically numbers given out for the sake of keeping them in circulation, and getting fans to say, "Wow, Desmond Howard was something special" or "Oh yeah, Gerald Ford knocked fools out in Michigan Stadium back in the day". If they're going to be something that says, "Desmond Howard clone!" or "Next president!" I don't think it's a good idea at all.
If what we're looking for is a reincarnation, Desmond's number likely would have been issued once in the full two decades since he's left, and it's very possible that Kramers number would have been issued three times in the past 57 years.
I'd rather just see the numbers and appreciate the current players honoring their tradition or the numbers painted up on the press box and not issued.
Don't forget about Devin Gardner getting the Roy Roundtree legend number this offseason.
I believe that the original idea behind even having numbers was in order to identify the players. But if we are going to keep up the musical chairs with them then what's the point of even wearing any numbers? We might as well just send the guys out there with blank jerseys.
while i was initially all in favor of the legends jersey program, the rush to re-institute the number has been very annoying. it has actually diminished the recognition of these players. Ii would have preferred that they be unveiled yearly, one-at-a-time, at each season's home opener. that way the player who gets the honor could have had spring practice and summer to "earn" the number on and off the practice field, and it could be given only when an appropriate candidate emerges. it would also be given to an underclassman (preferrably a promising sophomore) so that they could wear it for the majority of their career. i would also advocate that only 2-3 legends jerseys be in circulation at any one time. i would also make the patch smaller with perhaps only the initials of the recognized player (legendary players don't need to be written out fully, and it clutters the jersey). that way, the player could also be told that if they reach a legends status in their own right, they could have their initials added to the patch.
First of all, #1 is NOT a legends jersey. It is an endowed jersey.
Second, Roy Roundtree has NOT earned the jersey. The last guy who competently wore #1 had the following stats his senior season:
- 97 rec, 1330 yds, 15 TDs
And the following career stats:
- 252 rec, 3541 yds, 39 TDs
Roy Roundtree? Here's his stats this year:
- 20 rec, 378 yds, 1 TD
And his career:
- 143 rec, 2102 yds, 13 TDs
Obviously, stats aren't the only thing to consider. But the #1 jersey is supposed to be for a player that can dominate a game; Roy is not that player. He was an effective system receiver in RR's offense, but he doesn't get great separation, and isn't an elite player. Do I love him? Yes. Has he shown an ability to show-up in big moments? Absolutely. But the #1 jersey? Not even close.
Roundtree was perhaps on his way to the #1 jersey if he had continued producing like he did in 2010. Unfortunately for him, the change in offensive scheme has stunted his production somewhat.
But watching this weekend's game, I was wondering...did anyone ever do a breakdown of how many catches Roundtree had from Denard and Tate over the 2010 season? I know he had some big one play TD catches at the beginning of the Illinois game, but the end of Roundtree's signature game was with Tate. And Tate came in a lot that season. So seeing him suddenly be a target again the last couple of weeks I wondered if he was getting more balls thrown to him by Tate in the past. Because QBs get comfortable with safety valves, and maybe Denard 100% of the time means he wasn't looking in his direction when there aren't QB OH NOES. (Obviously not saying he was avoiding him...just that he checks down a different direction). Now maybe there's nothing to it, and if someone did the pass breakdown the opposite is true, and Denard threw a lot more to Roundtree than and Tate hit other guys. Just seemed odd with a QB switch he's suddenly a target all over the place again, playing in an even LESS spread system.
I don't know of any breakdowns, but Denard was the starting QB for the 2010 season and Forcier didn't play all that much except for against Illinois that year. Roundtree was a very frequent target of Denard's. I don't think his production had anything to do with Forcier being the QB.
Actually Forcier played extensively in several games that year. BGSU, Iowa and Ohio were three others. He attempted 84 passes, which is a lot for a backup QB.
Yeah...and I guess he played quite a bit against Iowa, but Denard threw 291 passes. Forcier threw 84.
I see where you're coming from, but "upgrading" Roundtree to the #1 jersey is essentially telling Desmond that his jersey wasn't good enough. Wearing #21 is a big enough honor.
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I say give the #1 to somebody because it automatically makes them awesome.
how about Denard vs ohio? fitting conclusion to his career?