Law School Looking Like Great Option for Seniors With No Other Options
http://www.everythreeweekly.com/law-school-looking-like-great-option-fo…
Really funny article for the Class of 2015. I was in a similar spot after graduation a few years ago, and luckily managed to break away from Law School after only a year(and minimal debt). Now have a successful career.
March 25th, 2015 at 12:15 AM ^
"Willing to bet?" I second the experience of someone who disagrees with you about the value of career services. Look, I'm sure you're a nice guy. Maybe you work for a law school or otherwise have a dog in this fight. That's fine. But you don't need to shill for them when you're not actually on the job. I work for clients I don't like, because I need to make a living, too (especially after all that debt). But I don't do that work for free.
I didn't go to Michigan, but I can confirm the uselessness of my school's career development office. If you weren't a part of the typical biglaw OCI train, you were told to network network network. No one in the office attempted to do much other than maybe give you an obvious suggestion to do some informational interviews or google alumni in the area of interest. I made appointments with no fewer than 6 different counselors over the 2 years, multiple sessions for some. Always the same bs: network, do informational interviews, check the school job board where alums post positions. I'm actually getting angry recalling my interactions with them.
I think bschools (the best ones anyway) do a much better job of installing people in the career office who are excellent networkers in their own right, and can actually truly help place you in meaningful internships and positions. At least in my school's case, the turnover year to year pretty much prevented that--it would always be some recent alum who needed a job or some old out of touch lady who didn't have a clue about the hiring climate.
This is very true. Luckily the Michigan brand has opened many doors for me(and I'm very good at interviewing, which has translated to success), but after deciding to quit Law School it was definitely a walk in the woods. Generally the cream does eventually rise to the top, but it would be nice if they gave more of an effort to expose students to available opportunities(which they certainly could do easily by leveraging the alumni network).
Unless you are graduating from one of the programs that is directly recruited out of school(which is many), you're basically left to fend for yourself.
I do agree that the LSA career office sucked, but the Bschool and Engineering (from my 2 times recruiting there) seemed pretty good.
Wasn't going to post anything significant in here, but since there are so many people offering horror stories, I figured I would offer something more on the positive side of things for people considering law school about my own experience.
It's sounds cliche, but I've wanted to go to law school and become a lawyer since I was a kid, so I didn't decide to go to law school because I didn't know what else to do. It's something I wanted to do.
Unfortunately, I didn't quite have the grades and/or LSAT score to get into the T14 schools, which left me to decide whether I wanted to go to a higher ranked law school with little or no aid or a "local" school with a lot of scholarship aid.
I opted to head to Wayne State on a full ride and have actually found the resources and opportunities to be pretty solid considering that WSU isn't exactly a T14 school. I did alright my first year and got offered several clerk positions at good firms in the state. Right now, I'm working at a firm in downtown Detroit and finishing up my 2L year.
Honestly not trying to sound like a WSU booster or something here, but I've actually been amazed at some of the opportunities I have been able to get that friends at schools like MSU, UM, or out of state schools have been unable to find. It's astounding to me. This honestly is not me trying to sound impressive, but I had friends at much better law schools than WSU that could not find paid employment
My advice for people considering law school is definitely to first weigh the factors as many have mentioned above. It's not easy and there are people there that absolutely love it - as weird as that sounds. But if you do decide to go, I wouldn't be as afraid of the "smaller" schools as many make it sound. Maybe that elite law job isn't waiting there when you graduate, but I think there are plenty of opportunities out there still and you have the potential to graduate with no debt.
Protip for prospective law students: Don't take career advice from 2Ls.
Protop for prospective law students: Don't take career advice from people mad at the system.
You'll learn kid. You'll learn. And when you figure it out, you're going to have a very bad time. The numbers don't lie.
True, the numbers don't lie. Zero debt.
Hey everyone, you should definitely go to law school because tbeindit will have no debt. Nevermind that less than half of graduates from his law school are fully employed after 9 months, or that the average law school debt is 84,000 for students at public schools and 122,158 for private schools. Go. You'll will almost certainly be rich despite the statistics.
Look man, I'm happy for you that you seem like you're going to beat the odds, but don't try to convince everyone else to play the lottery because you happened to draw a winning ticket. Law school is a BAD gamble for almost everyone regardless of the perceived quality of the school. I apologize for being a dick here, but it frustrates me when people ignore numbers in favor of anecdotes.
Nice job building a strawman argument, but ok. At no point in any of my comments did I tell anyone that they would "be rich" or "try to convince everyone" to go to law school. If I recall correctly, my advice was to consider all the factors that everyone else had discussed earlier in deciding if they wanted to go to law school and if they still wanted to go to law school, not to be as afraid of the small schools as people make it out to be.
I ignored no numbers when I decided to go to WSU. I actually reviewed the exact sites most of you are posting on here before I made my decision, but, for me, it was the best choice because I had already decided that I wanted to go to law school and didn't want to graduate with 100K+ of debt and no job. That's why I went somewhere that I got a full scholarship so that if I wasn't able to get a job, at least I wouldn't have that money hanging over my head.
My situation doesn't apply to everyone's situation, just like I don't think your decision applies to everyone's situation. But blindly pointing at employment numbers and acting as if it's a "gamble" isn't accurate either. Are times tougher? Absolutely and it's a huge reason why I am thankful that I have gotten some great opportunities. However, I also think it's inaccurate to portray intelligently making a life decision about becoming a lawyer and working hard to achieve that goal the equivalent of buying a lotto ticket.
It's a gamble when people make the kind of decision that I'm trying to warn against, which is going to a middle-tier law school because it has a "bigger" name so they can rack on a bunch of debt and have similar, if not worse odds at landing a job.
Lol "blindly pointing at employment numbers." There is no possible way you typed that with a straight face.
Your school has less than half of its graduates fully employed after 9 months. You have no argument here, unless its "you're going to be unemployed anyways, so why not be unemployed with no debt?"
You're starting to get a bit unreasonable here. Both of you have incredibly valid points, but aren't making the same argument.
Sigh. I'll try this again.
The reason I used the phrase "blindly pointing at employment numbers" is because the decision is different for each individual. Even if you just look at the field of law you want to get into, the availability of jobs can massively change. I'm sure this isn't news to you, but if your only goal is to make money, you probably shouldn't be going to law school to begin with, which goes into making your original decision, as I already stated a few times.
My argument here is that if you have already decided to go to law school AND are not the type of student who can qualify for a T14 school, not to be afraid of small schools because they lack the name and prestige of a bigger school.
I'm not arguing that law school is a good decision for everyone. I'm not arguing that Wayne is the best or even a great law school. I'm arguing that if you are in the group where you are deciding to go to a school like MSU or a school like WSU, not to be as a afraid of the smaller school because you can very likely lower your potential debt by an extremely large margin, which is certainly better in a worse case scenario.
March 24th, 2015 at 10:51 PM ^
I think you need to consider opportunity costs, too. Zero debt isn't a conclusory argument in your favor.
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Eh, I would prefer the term "risk" to "gamble," but I guess that's just my perspective. Still, I agree with your point here, but that's why I offered my advice. I think you can remove a hell of a lot from that risk if you're in that group of students I'm referencing and you go to a place where you can get a lot of money.
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Yeah, and the employment score for Michigan State is 36.9%, which typically has harder admission standards and thus, is harder to get scholarship dollars from. The biggest part of my point was that if you can't get into a T14 and still want to go to a law school, that the small schools are a lot closer than rankings would make you believe, which I think is pretty evident at least between MSU and WSU.
March 24th, 2015 at 10:44 PM ^
Thank you for the newly indentured. We intend to exploit them well, in part, to help recoup what we pay you for their FBU-ness (Fungible Billing Unit - ness). You are the best! Kisses.
March 25th, 2015 at 12:23 AM ^
This explains a lot, especially why you're focusing on the availability of legal jobs (which I still think you're overstating) and not the quality of legal jobs. If your monthly loan payment is almost two grand (i.e., around $24K a year), and the job you're lucky enough to get in non-Big Law pays anywhere from $45K to $80K pre-tax, then you're somewhere between lower middle class and maybe just slightly more than paycheck-to-paycheck. And that's if you're single with no dependents.
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March 24th, 2015 at 10:10 PM ^
This is totally accurate. Most people should not go to law school. I second the person who commented earlier saying, "only go to law school if you know you want to be a lawyer." Not only is law school a bad financial investment for most people, the harsh reality is that most people don't actually enjoy the work.
That said, some of us love it! It's not all doom and gloom. There are great jobs out there if you get a high LSAT score, get a scholarship, go to a top school, and get good grades. Those are very big IFs. And the "great jobs" are still very stressful, even if you enjoy the work -- though I think that is true in a lot of professions.
Do your research and do an internship or work as a paralegal before committing.
March 24th, 2015 at 11:29 PM ^
March 25th, 2015 at 12:02 AM ^
I've been an attorney for twenty-two years and I give the same advice to every student that asks me if they should go to law school. Make certain it is exactly what you want. The thought of law school just because is point blank stupid. There are much better things to do with your time than spend hundred of thousands of dollars and lose your hair.
March 25th, 2015 at 11:42 AM ^
March 25th, 2015 at 11:42 AM ^