The "lateral" reversed call
When can a penalty be reviewed. Essentially, the ruling on the field was that was Michigan did was legal, and the review apparently revealed that it was not legal. But where does the ability to retroactively make that distiction end? Can intentional grounding be reviewed? Or is it that penalties the commission of which can be objectively determined can be reversed? Man, not at all the reason for the loss, but sometimes it doesn't even seem that the rules for instant replay are consistent from game to game. And I'm I wrong, or is it rationally impossible for an "indisputable" call to take 10 minutes to determine. If it takes 10 minutes, clearly it hasn't met the treshold of indisputable. That being said, we f#@cking seriously lost this game? Win and we go to a bowl. We seriously lost? Depression = The rest of my weekend.
November 7th, 2009 at 3:53 PM ^
I was surprised at that call reversal. Mainly because I didn't see one camera angle that showed me definitively that it was a forward pass. But still, M's defense is the worst I've ever seen!!!
November 7th, 2009 at 3:54 PM ^
http://mgoblog.com/diaries/decimated-defense-part-ii-statisticating
And yes I agree there is no way that they should have over-turned the call on the field.
November 7th, 2009 at 3:58 PM ^
He wasn't out of bounds. The ball never crossed the plane of out of bounds. There was no angle that they could have possibly determined that it was a forward lateral. The best view was the official that was right there on the field who called it a backwards pass.
What it came down to was that they didn't think it should be allowed because there was so much that could/should have gone wrong there, so they were trying to find something to overturn it on.
I am pissed. I want the head of that replay official.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:00 PM ^
they are looking for something else to call off the play when they can't figure out how to rule.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:04 PM ^
Maybe I'm paranoid, but I think the guys upstairs knew that Hemingway wasn't touched on that punt fumble and tried to find some way to make up for it.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:31 PM ^
Maybe even unconsciously?
My feeling on bad calls is that in the long run, it shakes out to be pretty much equal for everyone. You get some major favors sometimes, and sometimes you get jobbed.
November 7th, 2009 at 11:59 PM ^
I was thinking the same thing until I looked back at the punt...the Purdue guy was in the way of Hemingway being able to catch the ball, which caused him to trip. So no, the Purdue guy didn't trip him, but he did cause "kick catch interference"
November 7th, 2009 at 4:49 PM ^
Out of bounds isn't determined by the ball crossing a plane. It's determined by a player contacting the ground out of bounds. This case was ambiguous because Brown didn't touch the ground out of bounds but was resting on a Purdue player. Undoubtedly there's an obscure rule that governs this.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:06 PM ^
I know. I only mentioned it because I had seen that referred to in several spots.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:01 PM ^
There was no way you could tell if he pitched it forward, bad call. That holding call early on in the drive was shit too. They rarely call that for Michigan on defense. Then Purdue does not touch Hemingway.
The refs are just awful in every Big Ten game.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:05 PM ^
If that bullshit was reviewable (and overturned), how the fuck is too many men on the field not reviewable (or at least not reviewed)? We got burned against PSU and ILL on those ovbious non-calls, but they manage to overturn this one?
November 7th, 2009 at 4:08 PM ^
Begging for no replays on a double lateral to our right tackle. Sad state of affairs... very sad. Remember when we were Michigan?
November 7th, 2009 at 4:26 PM ^
The basic argument by people here is that we had no views of the replay that gave us any idea if it was a forward lateral or not. Along with that, since when can you review penalties? If they had a good view, which is extremely doubtful, and it was for sure a forward lateral, which again is extremely doubtful, then I'm fine with the reversed call. It just seems like poor reffing.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:15 PM ^
I agree. If they could really tell that it was a forward lateral, then how did it take them so long to make the call. They needed indisputable evidence, as you said, and clearly the evidence must have been disputable if it took them so long to find something that would say that the play should be overturned.
Anyway, this play was not the reason for us losing. We need to be able to maintain a lead in the second half and play some form of defense. There are still a lot of problems with this team, and they are not going to be solved by next week or the Ohio State game. Its gonna take some time and we gotta be patient...as much as being patient sucks.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:26 PM ^
I thought it was the correct call based on where Brown let the pitch go and where Huyge ended up catching it. Looked like he was in front of Brown where he caught it.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:08 PM ^
In all honesty I think that's literally, physically impossible.
Brown was falling on his back, feet toward the line of scrimmage, head toward the end zone.
Huyge was running forwards, towards the end zone, facing the end zone.
With the players oriented in those directions, it had to have been a backward (lateral) pass for Huyge to even be able to catch it, which he did. Witht the players in the positions they were, a forward pass would have hit Huyge in the back, or on the back side of his arm, or he would have had to completely turn his body to catch it, which he didn't.
That was a piss-poor call.
I agree w/ the above posters who said the play was so freakish, that the replay officials assumed their *had* to be shenanigans for it to have happened the way it did, and were just looking for some basis on which to overturn it.
Horrible, horrible officiating, negating what was a phenomenal heads-up play on the part of both Brown and Huyge.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:31 PM ^
I couldn't tell, personally, if it was forward or not. Considering they gave it so much time, however, leads me to believe that the right call was made. Perhaps they have additional angles to look at? Or perhaps by viewing a certain combination of angles simultaneously, the indisputable result can be achieved.
At any rate, it is what it is. The officials did not cost us this one, regardless of that play.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:41 PM ^
Pretty obvious it went forward. Hell of a play by Brown given the situation he was put in, but sadly the replay officials got it right
November 7th, 2009 at 4:57 PM ^
I'm pretty sure the pitch went forward. It's tough to accurately review a call like that because there's no camera angle that would definitely show whether it was forward or not.
I just wish the announcers would stop emphasizing that replay has to be indisputable, because both at College and in the Pros that's clearly not the standard being used.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:58 PM ^
I also would be inclined to believe it's legit to review that. It's certainly allowed when the ball is behind the line of scrimmage . . . I've seen many reviews that look at whether something was a fumble or an incomplete pass based on whether the screen went forwards or not, so I wouldn't be too surprised if they were allowed to review this too (though the addition of a penalty to the mix may mean it's a different situation).
November 7th, 2009 at 5:16 PM ^
The NCAA rulebook is online. You can look it up for yourself. A lateral is reviewable to determine if it was an illegal forward pass. Obviously.
Note, I say obviously b/c that's what the officials ruled.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:25 PM ^
I appreciate the answer, but how is that obvious? Something isn't clearly right because the officials say so . . . I mean, last year the officials used video evidence to rule that Minor was in bounds because he landed on a pylon.