Late Late Night Open Thread
January 11th, 2011 at 1:58 AM ^
I hear and understand your thinking and it makes sense, but recruiting is too important at this point. RR's 2-3 star recruits could not cut it. We need 4-5 star recruits again and Miles (based on his current performance at LSU) gives us the best chance at that. It would take Hoke years to establish that level of credibility if he ever does and then what??? We won't beat OSU with a 3.2 star recruiting average when they are pulling in annual 3.9 star recruiting classes.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:00 AM ^
I'm not sold on Hoke, but "We won't beat OSU with a 3.2 star recruiting average when they are pulling in annual 3.9 star recruiting classes" is an incredibly faulty assumption.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:05 AM ^
We might beat them occasionally, but not regularly. Look at the Rivals top 10, these are the same teams who are vying for major conference and national championships year after year. Occasionally the outlier gets in, but recruiting is vital to sustained success. RR was getting "his" guys, but they were niche 3 star players. Please show me where my logic is faulty as I will gladly defer if proven incorrect...
January 11th, 2011 at 2:09 AM ^
The best teams get the best talent, because they are the best, not the other way around. TCU, Boise State, and Utah kill your logic of "without 5 stars we won't win!!!" What about USC this season? Texas this season? Notre Dame? Recruiting is a big part, and the more talented the players, the easier it is to be great, but that doesn't mean you can't.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:13 AM ^
Valid points and I don't disagree with your premise. However, TCU, BS, and Utah have played in lesser conferences against lesser talent on a week to week basis. USC is screwed because it got nuked by Bush and Carroll and has a brand new coach this season. Texas lost too much talent but I would not be surprised if next year they are right back in the top 10. Notre Dame is ND and well...their Notre Dame. Coaching is important. Hart, and Long were both 3 star recruits so I acknowledge that it is not all about 4-5 star recruits. What I am saying is that over a 20-25 recruit class, the better the recruits the better your team will do in the long run. It is what it is.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:25 AM ^
Good points and I agree. The non-BCS teams do play weaker teams but also do seem to step up to the challenge when it comes to playing BCS teams.
Like I said, I think in the end, recruiting is a HUGE part of a great football team and the more talent, the less time it would take to be that great team. That said, I think it's possible to have lesser recruits with more focus on coaching or maybe even just certain dimensions for certain schemes, to become that great team. It'd be much harder, but with a great coach, it's possible. Just as it's possible to have five star recruits everywhere but fail because of poor coaching. Whatever works, works. That said, I do prefer higher rated recruits for obvious reasons.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:39 AM ^
We agree and I think Miles gets us better recruits for the next several years minimum over Hoke. To your other point I have this question... What horrible injustice have we done to Will Campbell during his time here. He was 5 star and I can't help but think the crazy coaching carousel had hurt him and his development.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:55 AM ^
Considering that the rest of the defensive line has by and large developed pretty well under Bruce Tall, I think it's more likely that Scout and Rivals overrated him as a DT. Remember too that ESPN had him as a middle of the road OL.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:25 AM ^
Woops commented on the wrong post. Please disregard
January 11th, 2011 at 2:02 AM ^
Wisco beat Ohio State with less stars than thars. Dr. Seuss approved.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:06 AM ^
regularly or occasionally? I don't just want to beat OSU again, I want to dominate them like they are currently doing to us and like we dide back in the 90s... Nobody in the Big Ten has had the upper hand on OSU this past decade (I just threw up in my mouth while typing that sad fact)
January 11th, 2011 at 2:28 AM ^
Wisco got them two years in a row in Madison, but that's been almost ten years ago now. (One of them was the choking-gate game in '03.)
January 11th, 2011 at 2:06 AM ^
I understand your points, too, and that is Hoke's biggest downside. But there is this, too: I think that next year we should be better than last year, particularly with a much more experienced defense (and with getting Woolfolk back). I think that, even if this recruiting class is thin, we can survive it. If Hoke comes in and we go 8-4 (which I think is likely), he could quickly establish a good rep. He seems to be a good recruiter, and he did show immediate improvement when he went to SDSU.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:07 AM ^
I agree. Recruiting is a HUGE part of turning this program back around in a timely manner. I think Les gives us a better shot at doing that than anyone else mentioned. He is a familiar name to recruits. He's known for winning. He will recruit well for UM. I feel better than Hoke would for sure.
January 11th, 2011 at 3:34 AM ^
I agree that recruiting is extremely important. However, I think hiring a coach that will win and win as quickly as possible will sort of make the recruiting fall into place. Case in point, tOSU. Tressel came in, stabilized the class he had at the time and then started winning like a mofo. At the time he was hired he came from 1A ball. So, I don't think it's necessarily imperative that the hire be a "name." It certainly wouldn't hurt. I just don't think it's nearly as important as other factors.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:19 AM ^
He currently has the easiest recruiting job in the country. Louisiana has one of the deepest talent pools of any state and most of the kids there have known they'd be attending LSU since they were five years old. Les has no other in state competition for the Louisiana talent. Look at his list of recruits - nearly all of them are from in state. The challenge at Michigan is getting people to leave home and travel 2000 miles (no pun intended) to go to school. I think you'll see when none of his current LSU commitments leave to come to Michigan that at LSU it was much more about location and the institution than it was Les Miles.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:22 AM ^
Good points but look how MIchigan has fared since Ohio dried up. We can not thrive as a football power if we arent' stealing Ohio's best talent a.k.a. Charles Woodson, away from OSU. Right now, they are unopposed and reaping the benefits. BO, MO, LC, all bled Ohio dry of good talent. I believe Miles will be able to open that back up. RR was not interested in Ohio talent. He was convinced Florida was the primary gold mine.
January 11th, 2011 at 3:34 AM ^
recruiting classes had 14 players from the state of the Ohio. I will concede that those players were 3* players, with the exception of Touissant and Turner who were 4* players according to Rivals, but saying RR wasn't interested in players from Ohio is incorrect. Actually, if you look at the 2005-2007 classes, the 2009 and 2010 classes had more Ohio players in comparison. Michigan still has some pretty decent ties in Ohio built up, that the next head coach should be able to take advantage of.
And I am not sure if you notice, but the state of Florida does actually have a ton of talent. Don't see trying to establish more recruiting ties there as a bad thing, at all.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:28 AM ^
While I agree that there isn't much, if any, competition for the recruits in Louisiana, and many of them have grown up with nothing other than playing for LSU on their minds, Les is familiar with this area of the country. He played here and coached here. I assume that he still has a lot of contacts here. I know some of his recruits from the past couple years came from Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, so he has had some success in the area recently. I really think he will continue to have success with recruiting. That's just something we'll have to wait and see on. We should get a small sample size of how much "weight" the Les Miles name carries in the next 2-3 weeks.
January 11th, 2011 at 3:46 AM ^
two recruiting classes I am not sure where people get that RR didn't recruit a decent number of 4 or 5 star players. By my count according to Rivals, the last two recruiting classes had 19 total four and five star players. That seems like a decent number. The retention of some of those guys, as well as developing them seemed like the bigger problem.
January 11th, 2011 at 1:59 AM ^
January 11th, 2011 at 2:04 AM ^
Second or third time I've heard that. Is this an echo chamber, where the same surmise gets bounced back, or do you know of a source for that rumor?
January 11th, 2011 at 2:10 AM ^
No source.... It just makes sense, and I would love to see it... DB wants to make a splash and serve notice to not only the B1G but the nation. Getting both would do that, and it would unite the fan-base... and I think he could sell Hoke on being the HC in waiting... Again if money is no object (and according to DB it isn't) then I don't see why this can't happen.... Hoke has said he would work here for free, so pay him to be the DC.... just a thought. I didn't see this posted by others, but if it was then great minds think a like....
January 11th, 2011 at 2:15 AM ^
I think Brady Hoke really truly does love UM, but I don't think professionally he would do this. He's enjoying success as a head coach at a school he just got to a couple years ago. I don't think he just packs things up and moves to Ann Arbor to take a coordinator position, even if it was promised he'd be the coach in waiting. And who's to say that Les would want him to the be DC? I think it's only fair that you let the new coach pick his staff. You don't want to put limitations on a head coach when hiring them. That's never a good thing. I think history proves that.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:24 AM ^
not sure "it makes sense." Hoke will be a little hurt that he did not get the HC spot and will not want to take a huge pay cut. I am not saying Miles is the man, but it really does not make sense for Hoke to be coming along with Miles.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:25 AM ^
He might have said he'd work here for free, and I believe him--if he absolutely HAD to.
But fork over a million bucks for each of five years? The reality is--Hoke is not that stupid. He might talk like a fan, saying fanny things fans like, but he thinks like a coach, cashing coachy paychecks that coaches like.
January 11th, 2011 at 6:39 AM ^
He's already 52. If Miles stays 5 years then Hoke is 57...Like the HC in waiting idea ... looking for younger though.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:07 AM ^
You're thinking a guy takes a step down from head coach to be a coordinator? A guy who is having a successful run and who can probably sign an extension which would make him filthy rich (prolly 1.5 Mill, and he would forego that for DC at Michigan to make about 300 grand?
I DO love me some Michigan, and I'm positive Brady Hoke does--but if he was that dumb, I'd be reluctant to think he could fix our defensive woes.
Shirley you can't be serious.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:15 AM ^
don't call me shirley.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:08 AM ^
Leaves a head coaching job to be an assistant again when they are succeeding as a HC. Maybe if there was more than 4 years between them and there would be more chance for succession, but not as it is.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:21 AM ^
The only way someone goes from a Head Coach one year to a DC the next is if they get fired for sucking. Just like GERG.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:05 AM ^
But I don't think you have to worry about Miles working hard. Unless he shocks by this just being a retirement payday, I don't think it's his style to go half speed. And he'll want to make his mark in Michigan lore. Patterson, who knows? But I don't think that's a worry with Miles.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:10 AM ^
Why make that kind of move to go half speed? He is almost on auto-pilot at LSU now. Sign 48 recruits, make people crazy with ballzy in-game decisions, win eleven games, make millions of dollars, no shoveling snow.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:16 AM ^
My gut and his words honoring Bo and his Wolverine ties leads me to believe that he will embrace this challenge 110%. Also, he may be wacky, but he fills a room with his persona and that is so helpful in a recruit's home. I enjoy hearing him talk about Michigan...shoot he even sounds like BO.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:19 AM ^
If you want the coach that will work the hardest, he was fired last week.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:31 AM ^
It didn't work here, and we wish him the best, wherever he ends up.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:58 AM ^
Here lies our Dear Departed
Rich Rodriguez
His shovel was sharp
And his will was outstanding.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:33 AM ^
I don't want the hardest working coach with "fire" in his belly, I want the best coach. Working hard does not make up for average coaching ability. Will Les (or anyone else) be napping during the day? How can they get some of that sweet sweet FIRE?
Jay Leno is often called the hardest working comedian ever, but that doesn't make him a great comedian.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:45 AM ^
No it doesn't, but it keeps him the Tonight Show and 10 plus million a year. Not bad for a little hard work.
January 11th, 2011 at 3:21 AM ^
Which supports said argument. A position and a big payday correlates not at all to how good you are. Leno sucks. As my buddy said, "I knew I should have dropped my baby's mama before she got pregnant when she told me she liked Leno more than Letterman." But, buddy did not drop future baby mama, and now he's got monthly payments and insane baby-mama-in-laws. I know: Cool story, bro. However, Cool story, bro + fact = frightening tale of not choosing the best option. Kid is cute, though.
January 11th, 2011 at 12:37 PM ^
Leno is succeeding. He has far better ratings than anyone else doing the boring thing. That's like saying Hoke would run a boring offense, but win more games than any other team. Because that's what Leno is doing.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:08 AM ^
You can win a chance to be at the introductory press conference when we announce our new coach
http://www.mgoblue.com/promotions/football-history.html
Good news... all signs pointing there will be a press conference to announce someone! But who?
January 11th, 2011 at 2:22 AM ^
Really, win a trip to the press conference? Man, is this a gimmick or what?
January 11th, 2011 at 2:12 AM ^
A few weeks ago I wanted JH! LM should incorporate some spread in his offense. I think he can talk DROB in staying along with most of the team. May be he can try to get Hart back from AL. LM may be able to pry some LSU recruits to head north with him. LM will coach for at least 6 to 10 years, just long enough to reload talent and prime thinks up for JH after his SF HC gig is up.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:18 AM ^
Besides Denard, who would leave if Les Miles or brady Hoke didn't run a spread offense? Speculate for me, because past Denard, i don't see this as some sort of "Spread Team" roster.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:23 AM ^
MIles would run a number of different sets. I am sure keeping Robinson would be objective no. 1.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:28 AM ^
But you know, to a lot of people now only spread offenses work and PANIC! if Denard leaves, UM is done for a decade.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:31 AM ^
I will be personally demoralized if Robinson transfers, but there is Devin Gardner.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:42 AM ^
DROB loves the university and it's fans. The only way I see him leaving is if the new coach says I don't want you here to play QB. Don't think that will ever happen I hope!
January 11th, 2011 at 3:04 AM ^
Crazy that Jefferson only threw 7 TDs all year and LSU won 11 games. If Denard, Devin and Tate all transfer, Jack Kennedy will throw more then 7 TDs.