Maybe you could throw in Jeremy Jackson, if you think about it.
Last Carr Recruits
There were probably some other mitigating factors that brought him to Michigan other than Lloyd Carr.
If you're counting the length of Jackson the Elder's tenure, you'd have to count him as a Kipke recruit.
Not really. Fred Jackson has been at Michigan since the leather helmet days.
the best leather helmets ever
They were like the armored helmets that the Vikings wore, but more durable.
And without the fake white Viking horns painted on the sides.
Question about Jackson: Why are fans demanding Borges' head instead of his? Given Jackson's past claims, he's either utterly incapable of evaluating talent, or he's the worst RB coach ever. Either way, it seems like the ineptitude of Fitz, Smith, et al should be on Jackson, not Borges.
The offensive line was the bigger problem this year and Jackson has been around since Bo was the coach. He has coached some great running backs.
But Jackson actually came in under Moeller.
Because neither Tyrone Wheatley nor Mike Hart are ready for the job yet. My money is on Wheatley after the younger Jackson graduates.
It's because other coaches won't be able to have baseline comparisons to previous other player. This is why we recruit so well.
Worst RB coach ever? Tell that to Tyrone Wheatley, Tim Biakabutuka, Anthony Thomas, Chris Perry, Mike Hart, and many, many more that were very successful under him. Jackson may be a fan of hyperbole, but he is also a coach that has been responsible for getting many good RBs and players to Michigan and coaching them up when they get here.
But hey, coaching four different RBs that got over 1500 yards rushing in a season must mean you're the worst coach ever. Got it.
Remember when Tim Biakabutuka bulldozed your Buckeyes for 313 yards in '95? He was coached by Fred Jackson.
But is he as effective a coach as he was 17 years ago? How many coaches can remain at a job for that long and not begin to decline?
It seems like we've had a lack of tailback depth for several years now. Hart never really had much of a backup during his four years and since his graduation, the position has generally been weak. How long does Jackson get to keep living off the legends of guys who played 10-20 years ago?
Michigan has done a poor job of recruiting running backs in recent years. They used to get one of the top few running backs in the country - Perry, Thomas, Wheatley, etc. Now that's not the case, for whatever reason. And the Hart "legend" ended in 2007, so it hasn't been 10-20 years.
He was offensive coordinator my first two years in college (95-96). Then he went back to coaching RBs with laser vision.
It does feel like a lot longer than what it actually is. How many RR recruits will be left on next years class?
RR recruits; some of our best players in 2013:
Fitz Toussaint (?)
Taylor Lewan (?)
Was Brennan Beyer a RR recruit? I think so but I am not sure. Did I overlook any obvious names? I know I must have overlooked some names.
He committed when RR was still coach but signed after Hoke came on board...Also, Schofield, Thomas Gordon, Quinton Washington, and Jibreel Black can go on that list.
Roh and BWC
As can Jerald Robinson, Courtney Avery, and Stephen Hopkins. And Jack Miller, didn't he come in under RR?
Edit: NVM, should have scrolled a little further.
Wouldn't any of the non-EE's be in the same category? Verbal commits until faxing in there LOI on signing day? It seems like those players just stayed the course, not decommitted then recommitted.
Of course RR shows up as recruiting the best players for next season. Who else was recruiting our senior and juniors? All of Lloyd's players have graduated and Hoke's are still underclassman.
And "best" compared to who? How does the RR senior class compare to Bama or Ohio? Meyer has a pretty blue chip senior and junior recruiting class to work with next year for the Game. Hoke is still trying to piece together an O-line.
Yikes, chill out bro. Was there anything wrong in Section 1's post? It seems pretty accurate to me. And I'm pretty sure "best" means "best compared to the rest of the team."
Looks like somebody is in need of a weekend.
Fair enough. 2 years of S1 Homer posts on RR has my radar up for more.
To be fair, our senior classes haven't compared too well to OSU since 2001 and how many teams boast upperclassmen like Bama in recent years? Our last really good senior class was 2007. So I think that goes on both RR and LC.
While he may have bunched up his undies a bit, the sentiment is accurate. RR recruited all of the players who will be SR, JR and RS SO, so of course his recruits will make up the bulk of our "best" players. My guess is that in two or three years we'll look back at the best RR players as being relatively weak in comparison to the best Hoke players.
If I counted correctly, from the 2009 and 2010 classes at least, there are still 22 players from those classes on the roster as it looks on MGoBlue right now (just printed it). There are four players - Countess, Hollowell, Morgan and Beyer, who had committed to the class of 2011 before Rodriguez was let go.
Based on what I counted (I could have missed a few), it breaks down:
- 4 sophomores (Countess, Hollowell, Morgan, Beyer)
- 4 RS sophomores (Ryan, Ash, J. Robinson, Paskorz)
- 9 juniors (M. Robinson, Avery, Dileo, Gardner, J. Jackson, Hopkins, Hagerup, Black, R. Miller)
- 9 RS juniors (C. Gordon, Gallon, Jones, Toussaint, T. Gordon, Gibbons, Schofield, Q. Washington, Lewan)
Again, this might not be exhaustive - estimating based on the current roster.
RS Freshman (Hayes, Miller)
Don't forget taco pants!However he has not seen the field much of late.
Well Devin Gardner never throws to him so it's no wonder they stopped playing him
He always has playing time, just sometimes on other teams when Michigan is not throwing to him. Titus Young envys him.
He targeted him on the last drive of the Ohio game, me thinks.
Dileo must have thrown his timing off with one of those strategic "offensive PI calls" things.
Didn't Will Campbell originally commit to Carr before he de-comitted and then re-commit to RR?
Does anyone track classes by rec coord? I'm in the dark about Carr and RR recruiting leaders.
Coach Hecklinski deserves a ton of credit. Although it takes a couple of years to know if talent assessment skills are keen, the character and ratings of these classes seem UM worthy.
I agree regarding Hecklinski (and the rest of the staff).
What's stunning about this coaching staff's recruiting success isn't that they've brought in highly rated players. Every Michigan coaching staff will do that. It's that they put together top 5 or top 10 classes at a time when the program looked like it was a directionless mess (staring at some rebuilding/tinkering years) and no one knew what to expect from Hoke as coach. That 2012 class was a remarkable feat.
I agree on the whole that Hoke and company miraculously changed the world that was Michigan football in terms of recruiting, but I think you are mixing our ontology as onlookers with recruits' ontology. While we held onto the reality that the program was "a directionless mess" during and after the RR -> Hoke transition, Hoke and company had already created a different world inside Schembechler Hall (which extended out into the recruiting trail). Our reality was historical, yet we didnt know it. But recruits did. The world recruits saw was full of potential and opportunity built on quality management, leadership, and relationships, while the world we saw was still informed and structured by the past. Schembechler Hall had already evolved into a new species, while we were still holding onto a picture of a devolving species, and thus were less evolved ourselves.
On second thought, I think we completely agree, and I'm just adding some substance to your comment. In short, you are right - what was micaculous was that Hoke and co were able to build the new world order based on mere potential.
Isn't Steve Schilling still on the roster? I think that guy has been here since the Moeller years.
Related, if Blake Countess stays through the 2015 season, he has some serious, "Hasn't that guy been there for 12 years?" potential.
I hope that relationship disappears by the time next season rolls around.
Are you sure you're not making this up?
Will Campbell. He committed to Michigan in the summer before the 2007 season, then decommitted a year later so he could have his hat ceremony.
Also JT Floyd was basically a silent commit before the coaching change and RR had to win back ground lost by Carr's retirement.
The last players who actually played for Carr (which gives them the rare distinction of having played for three head coaches) were Troy Woolfolk and Junior Hemingway, I think.
Will Heininger played for all three as well.
No, he redshirted in '07. Never saw the field under Carr.
Also, Marvin Robinson was offered by Carr back when he was a sophomore in HS, though he didn't committ until '09.
Shane Morris probably fell in love with Michigan during the Carr era. Probably would have committed in the fifth grade if he had an offer.
We should throw Hoke into the Carr recruiting while we're at it.