Larry Foote says Michigan does things the right way
Yes, it's a dreaded Freep link-
http://www.freep.com/article/20110605/SPORTS06/106050570/Could-OSU-trou…-
But it's really an article talking to players about whether U-M's recruiting will be helped by OSU's trouble (Answer: Maybe), but I was more interested in what Foote had to say-
"But that's why I got so much pride in my university. God knows we do it the right way. And just the stories I hear from other players at other places, I'm like, 'Wow!' They ask you, 'How much money you's getting?' And I'm like, 'I've never even heard of that.'
"But Michigan, we do it the right way. I know when I was there, coach (Lloyd) Carr, that was the first message in training camp: 'If I even hear of something going on, you're suspended. Then we're going to investigate.' So he kept us on our toes. We do it the right way at Michigan and that's why we're successful."
Yeah, it's not exactly "Man bites Dog" in shocking newsworthiness. But there's been a lot of talk down south (and around here) that EVERYONE does it, and all programs are inherently corrupt, and that's just the way it is. And while there will always be outliers, and bad apples, and some things going on, from the perspective of someone who was IN the program, he sees, for lack of a better phrase, a Michigan difference.
I was and RA in South Quad '88-'90. The football players never caused problems- because they respected authority and Bo had no tolerance. When all the crap came down with RR - it was infuriating. No matter the end result of our season or a game I could always hold my head high about the M football program - we did it right and I knew first hand.
If you believe Larry Foote -- and I think you should, Larry Foote is a great Michigan Wolverine -- you should also understand that he thought that Rodriguez was the victim of a media witch-hunt. The investigation largely proved that.
http://michigan.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1055221
I agree with you; Michigan is a clean, respectable, high-class Athletic Department, with much to be proud of. And that's been true for each and every one of the last 3, 5, 10, 100 years.
youR seleCtive usE oF caPital lEtters is oDd.
Certainly things go on, I don't think anyone could say any program is totally "clean". Let's be real the whole NCAA system is flawed. But just like Brandon said about the helmet - it is a point of diferentiation and tradition- and it does matter in the decision of where to go to school. You cannot underestimate it's value with the parent of a top recruit. If you continue to maintain that tradition of the Michigan way and not deviate it pays dividends down the road. Remember when Leroy Hoard came out about getting offered a suitcase full of money from LSU? Where did he end up? I think Larry is talking Macro - notwithstanding some "things" do go on regardless.
... saying we do things the right way should not be used as definitive evidence. I like to think we're a cleaner program, but Larry Foote's opinion isn't going to sway my opinion. 99 out of every 100 Buckeye's would give the same exact quote, truthful or not.
Not saying I disagree, but what else would you expect him to say?
It's a belief. How could any one person know if everyone does it? It's a statement of belief used by supporters of dirty programs to rationalize why they think their school of choice shouldn't be punished. Not only is it a fatuous argument, but it's an unknowable proposition. So it doesn't really make sense to use evidence to argue against it. Because the response will be: "Come on, we all know that everyone does it."
While it is great that Foote feels the program was clean under Carr, the fact remains that like all major programs there were bad apples that got away with infractions because they were stars/on the team. Hell, Kelly Baraka had seemingly endless chances even though the guy couldn't stay from the bong, and you always heard stories about football players getting in fights and/or drunk altercations (most famously Griese) with few major repercussions. I do think that Carr ran a tight ship and was more adamant than other HCs in keeping kids in line, but I'm not going to sit on my high horsse and look down on the rest of CFB, even OSU. But it is nice to hear a former player speak highly of the culture surrounding the program.
I don't think players breaking the law on their own time is a reflection on whether the program is "clean" - when people talk about "clean" and "dirty", it's generally adherence to the NCAA they're talking about, and making sure that those who DO break laws suffer some punishment (ie, the opposite of Dantonio). Id say
<br>Carr generally nailed those criteria.
I agree with Chitownblue2. I think in judging whether a program is clean or dirty (or, at least, assessing the degree of dirtiness among the OSUs and USCs and SECs of the world), the key has to be in whether the coaches and administrators allow the team to gain a competitive advantage by condoning (or actively facilitating) unlawful conduct by players or others associated with the program. In any group of 85+ college kids there are going to be people who do dumb things from time-to-time. For a player to get caught smoking dope or get into a drunken incident at a campus bar is invevitable in just about any program--the key is how you respond. If you discipline the offending player appropriately regardless of the circumstances, that is the sign of a clean program. If you don't, that may be the sign of a dirty program. If you don't discipline the player and the reason you don'ty is because of that player's on-field importance, that is basically a streak of mud right across the program's forehead.
I guess it is a difference in how we define "clean" and "dirty" programs. I don't think UM ran a dirty program in terms of NCAA violations, but they also weren't saints all the time. I guess my bigger problem is calling any program "clean" - everyone has skeletons, some just bigger and more egregious than others.
I am perfectly content to say UM under Carr was as clean as can be expected of a top program, but I'm not going to crown them boy scouts. It is the moral superiority that some derive from the OSU/USC situations that drive me crazy.
And to whomever listed the comment as Flamebait - really? This is my problem with these designations for comments. You might disagree with my opinions, but I've been posting here for over 2 years. If I wanted to start a comment flame war, I'd have probably done it by now. Sorry - just don't vote if you don't agree.
Why on Earth would you worry over what some MGoDouche thinks of your post?
You have let yourself become a victim of Sissy Points, and you are part of the problem of this board: Scoutie Douchebags have taken it over, Brian has given it over to them, and now people rate posts, give points, and bitch about it like little girls.
The New MgoBlog: More douchey than a douchey douche.
Hell, Kelly Baraka had seemingly endless chances even though the guy couldn't stay from the bong
The same Kelly Baraka who was suspended for his entire freshman season and then dismissed from the team the following offseason, who left without ever playing a down? Not a good example.
Carr was generally pretty tough on guys that broke the law. The two I can think of that seemed to get extra leeway were Markus Curry and Adrian Arrington.
My point with Kelly was that he had problems staying clean as a HS kid, was suspended for a year then given another chance, which he apparently blew.
http://aceofsports.blogspot.com/2008/07/where-you-at-kelly-baraka-edition.html
I agree that Carr ran a pretty tight ship, but Kelly had at least 2 known offenses to his name before he played a down at UM, then racked up at least 1 more before being let go despite being given a year to "figure it out." And the same with Curry and Arrington - both those guys were major talents, so they had longer leashes. And I still remember Braylon running steps seemingly every day for failing to follow team rules, and probably would have been kicked off the team if he wasn't an all-world talent.
My point is that nobody at a major college should say "man, we run a clean ship, not like X" unless by "clean" you mean you don't flippantly and repeatedly break NCAA or city/state laws. If that is the point Larry was going toward, then yes, Carr ran a clean ship. But as I said above, the football team had 85+ guys on it, not 85+ saints. Acting like UM was morally superior to OSU/USC types because "our" recruits didn't trade memorabilia for tats is just foolish IME.
Foote's an interesting guy to comment on this. I was in school the same time as him, and worked for the Daily for part of that time. We heard a lot of stuff about him - not legal or NCAA-related, but just disciplinary. He spent a fair amount of time in the doghouse and I think actually quit the team briefly. He seems to have gotten it together since then.
I love the MICHIGAN difference... Saw a walk on at lifetime today working out. He might be a walk on and barely play but he was busting his ass just as much as any other player. The MICHIGAN DIFFERENCE