Lacrosse loses to Dartmouth 13-12
Men's lacrosse lost to Dartmouth today at home, 13-12.
This is just a bad loss. Horrible. Dartmouth was 0-4 with a loss to Wagner which is traditionally the shittiest team in Div 1. They are probably going to finish last in the Ivy League. No way Michigan should've lost this one.
This was a must win for the team as they wound down OOC play. JP has to legitimately be on the hot seat now. He should seriously consider dumping Ken Broschart and getting a new defensive co-ordinator because the D seems to be the root of the team's problems.
This team is going in the wrong direction. They need to pull some upsets in the Big Ten portion of the schedule to redeem this season and that seems highly unlikely at this point,
Fire John Paul.
I said last week there was one winnable game left and it's Marist. Now we're staring in the face a regression from consecutive 5-win seasons to a 4-9 record in year 5.
While Boston University is ranked. While Marquette was ranked this year. Both of those teams are younger than ours.
As if giving up 44 goals to one team in consecutive seasons wasn't enough, this happens the following week.
An entirely botched transition to D1. Not even a transition. We jumped head first off a cliff. Thanks Dave.
Smart ADs don't throw their club team to the wolves right off the bat. So many things could've been done differently to prevent this. Starting with conducting an actual coaching search like we did with the Women's program.
This poor team is going to be facing 3 more ranked teams and two on the verge of being ranked. Including having to play in front of 50,000 at OSU.
my understanding is that the team jumped from club to D-1 without a transition because some of the funding was contingent on such a jump. It came from families of the club players who wanted their kids to play D-1. I do not have first-hand knowledge of that, so I'm sorry for spreading rumors if I am way off.
In hindsight, hiring an experienced D-1 coach would have been preferable, but personally I was fine with giving JP a shot. He got his shot. It's time to move on after this year.
March 21st, 2016 at 12:16 PM ^
your not-first-hand knowledge is accurate.
I don't agree with the part about how "it's time to move on after this year" re JP. After what he has already accomplished he can determine his own fate at UM v-v lacrosse as far as I am concerned.
Once again here you go on the "botched transition" to D1. Myself and others here numerous times have commented on how overblown your rage is about that. The fact that players from the dominant "Virtual Varsity" MCLA club team were on the initial team did not kill UM's chances of building a good program.
Now if you want to discuss the merits and success of JP and Borchardt, that's probably another thing. But get off the dead horse.
The fact that players from the dominant "Virtual Varsity" MCLA club team were on the initial team did not kill UM's chances of building a good program.Or, in fact, even harm it a tiny bit.
Yeah and it was so long ago at this point , its not really a factor anymore. As we've said before the club kids were probably an asset to the program's early years.
The problem at hand now is the defense. JP is primarily an offensive coach but he brought in Conor Ford an offensive specialist to install the nuts and bolts. That area has seen great improvement. On the other hand, Borschardt has been there for several years and the D only seems to be getting worse. They need someone new in there.
Losing to Dartmouth at home is bad and getting torched by Brown for 22 is worse. Giving up 14 to Vermont in a home win isn't exactly a feather in his cap either. They gave up 3 MANU-UP goals to Penn and that was ultimately the difference in a game that they could've had. That is as that lemon said UNACCEPTABLE!!!
I've also heard former players and parents say that exiting seniors the last few years have not been thrilled with the coaching, particularly the defense (I don't wanna be that guy so thats all I say)
March 19th, 2016 at 10:40 PM ^
It really is about coaching at this point. I wouldn't go all "unacceptable," but with the new facilities really needs to come a coaching upgrade. Most likely at the head coaching position, because I don't think JP can hire himself a great defensive assistant. Such an assistant would now be looking at HC jobs.
I don't know why you think that someone who could coach up a defense would necessarily be too good/overqualified for the job. There are probably plenty of solid young assistant coaches out there who could turn this team/defense around, but aren't ready for a head coaching gig of their own yet. Conor Ford is a good example of that type of coach. He was a good pick-up for the offense and Michigan just needs one for defense.
This program (and basketball for that matter) needs Dudes on defense. And a Chief Dude to coach them.
Wolverine Devotee has '0', that would be zed or zero, MGoPoints displayed presentlly. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Hey wait a minute, _everybody_ has 0 MGoPoints displayed. Nevermind.*
*I also have no MGoPoints, and I heard through a friend, who knows Ferris Bueller, that MGoPoints are redeemable for free cocktail napkins at Skeeps. And I want my free nappies.
March 21st, 2016 at 12:28 PM ^
First, let's get some perspective. We're talking about a non-revenue sport right? Very little tv covereage (read money) at stake right? When have you ever heard of a UM coach besides football, basketball, and hockey being on the "hot seat" for poor performance on the field? Fire JP? Nagonnahappen.
Now, coaching is definitely behind our lack of succes this year - on the defensive side of the ball. I have heard grumblings on this point from those in the know. There is some aspect of having the talent to execute, but there is also the aspect of giving up transition goals to a long stick when you're man up. Twice in one game. Landing an upgrade at DC is the prescription.
JP has a long term plan for the team that started first with building a culture (see F.I.S.T.) and he scored the support and funding (!!) to go D1 and build a beyond-top-flight facility. We are recuriting with the big boys, something else at which JP excels - no one exudes a love for Michigan and a desire to be in Ann Arbor more than JP. The recruits need to be coached up. Offense, check. Defense, see above.
But I am a homer fan for life, so take my comments with that perspective.
It's year 5 and you know the story about giving a coach 5 years.
I don't care about recruiting rankings. It's obvious that this is a coaching issue. We almost have 50 losses in not even 5 full seasons.
There's zero excuse when no-name schools like BU, Richmond, Marquette are all progressing.
Marquette and Boston University are no-name schools? Richmond isn't exactly a putz school either. It's nice that you're in UNACCEPTABLE RAGE mode and all but chill.
No-name in the lacrosse world.
Except that BU and Richmond are both located in talent rich traditional lacrosse areas and many expected them to start their programs off well.
Your argument is that UM should be better than those schools bc they are "no-name lacrosse schools". In the lacrosse sense, Michigan is still "no-name"
Oh, also, since you think it was the worst idea ever, Richmond had players from it's former club team on its first roster as well...
I think it is reasonable to believe that Michigan in its 5th year should expect to be at least as good as BU and Richmond which are also new programs. UM has gotten good recruits. We are a big draw for kids from talent-rich areas. It's not like our team is all from Michigan and Ohio.
March 19th, 2016 at 10:35 PM ^
Yes. All this. Look at how attractive Michigan is to kids from the hotbeds of Maryland and Long Island. You don't think their lacrosse-playing high school classmates aren't interested? When Hopkins coach Pietramala brought his national championship team here for an exhibition in the fall of 2007, his players were ridiculously jacked to visit Michigan, go to the M-OSU game, and experience the feel of a serious Big Ten school.
Its about coaching!!!
March 19th, 2016 at 10:32 PM ^
Michigan is actually a higher rated squad than Dartmouth. Better RPI, better power rating, better everything. They should be beating a team like Dartmouth. It is as close as they will get to a sure thing.
I have no issue with the transition, except that it should have involved a plan for coaching succession. Clearly, JP needed to be there for the first few years. But he just doesn't have the experience/knowledge/credentials to take this team where it needs to go.
And even programs in talent-rich areas are recruiting outside those areas these days. Denver recruits the three "Cs" - Colorado, Canada, California. Hardly the traditional hotbeds. And the Michigan name is HUGE in the hotbeds of Maryland and Long Island.
No thoughts on coaching . Don't know enough, how has the recruiting been? Are we looking up in the future?
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
John Beilein has a long history of coaching success at the D-1 level and got us to the championship game in recent memory. So it's actually quite different in that sense.
March 20th, 2016 at 12:22 PM ^
All of you thinking that replacing JP is the answer because he hasn't brought immediate succes should not only look at new programs that have had initial success. Look at Furman University that brought in big name Richie Meade. They are currently 0-7.
More importantly, look at the example of Notre Dame. It took Kevin Corrigan 10 years to gain his first NCAA appearance at Notre Dame and then it took another 10 years to get to a final four. And saying Michigan has a huge name in the Lacrosse hotbeds should look at Notre Dame as an example of a school that also has no problem recruiting on the east coast.
I have no idea whether it is in JP to bring this team to that level. There are not many of those coaches out there. But even the best of them take more than 4 years to make it happen.
I fully believe JP can coach at this level but he has to make changes. Or he should rightly be on the hot seat. I'm wondering if JP will make the move himself and step down and take a different position within the athletic department.
But you're totally right about ND. They are almost always #1 these days and contending for the title. When I was a kid I remember they would frequently make the tournament as the designated "western" team and get wiped out by someone like Syracuse in the first round of the NCAAs (Interestingly enough- State was the western team a few times). But, they've definitely come a long way.
I don't expect Michigan to be Final 4-worthy at this point, but they shouldn't be losing in blow-outs and they definitely should not be losing at home to teams like Dartmouth.
March 20th, 2016 at 11:20 PM ^
If you think Michigan is HUGE with hotbeds kids you are mistaken. Its a draw but not YUUUGE.
The brand is strong to be sure, but those kids can have their pick of the Ivies, Duke, Uva, ND, Cuse, UNC, Hop, MD, etc. depending on their relative levels of stupidity. UM may be in consideration but UM isn't bigger than those I just mentioned. its not that easy and thinking so is insulting to the coaches.
UM has taken the road of UNC, Hop, Uva to go early with recruiting. Marquette, Richmond, High Point have not. Hop seems to be putting it together this year but this is a team that hasn't been to the mountaintop in a while. With their history and resources that is a joke. It all comes down to being able to identify, and then coach up talent. The best do it and win. Time will tell with UM.
Denver is becoming some darling case study but lets be honest-Coach T was great at PU when admissions standards were lower, struggled when they were higher. Left to DU where they are laughable compared to the B10 or ACC schools. Bates, who replaced him, inherited those higher standards and you pair a bad fit of a coach to obstacles that can't be overcome... and Upenn puts 20 on you.
ND's rise comes with the expansion of the game on many levels. Their coaches didn't all of the sudden become great, their talent got better. They LUCKED into Sergio Perkovic. Kid wasn't even ranked. UM could have had him...it is what it is. ND gets a lot of Catholic kids from the east coast Catholic schools, who-10-15 years ago were awful and now many of them are powerhouses. That helps.
UM has a ton to offer, hell I would be so lucky if my 5yo could play and go to school there one day. My take on the program is they put too much into praying at the altar of the block M. The brand is not going to win games for you. Good coaching, good talent, and a will to compete every day do that.
Losing to Dartmouth is just a sign of softness. They should have beaten them by 7.
No one said we should be outrecruiting the top tier of lacrosse. Most of us are saying we should be better than a team that loses to Dartmouth at home. So, glad to see we are all in agreement.