Lack of toughness and intensity
I'm getting sick of the whining about how Michigan lost because State played dirty. There were definitley a couple of cheap shots, but my god the whining from our fan base is disgusting. Take a page out of Denard and Hoke's playbook. It's football. It is a dirty game. Our team needs to develop some toughness. Remember Marcus Ray putting Boston on his back, or Woodson trading shots with Boston, or Alan Branch leaving a QB motionless? Nothing wrong with having a little swagger. I bet you all liked it when the fab five did it or when Darius told Lucious to get the fuck off his court.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:08 PM ^
Amen.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:09 PM ^
There's a difference between hard and clean hitting and punching someone in the face and ripping at someone's neck to try and injure them.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:42 PM ^
that both Michigan State and the Big Ten will disagree that our fan base is unjustly whining. State did not win the game because of Gholston thugery, that is not the point. The point is that he could have paralyzed a young man. State will suspend him for a game, the Big Ten will up it to two. What Gholston did was was flat out dangerous. It was a character defining action. His intent was to injure, to seriously injure. He is piece of shit and I hope he gets what is coming to him.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:49 PM ^
The only part of your post I disagree with is that MSU will suspend Gholston. Dantonio is probably proud of him.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:57 PM ^
It's systemic, it's what they preach. Narduzzi flat out said they try to play with unnecessary roughness and hope to minimize flags. This is what they're taught to do.
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<br>(Also notice how Gholston tried to conceal the facemask twist.)
October 16th, 2011 at 9:04 PM ^
Those players were not being "punished" for those acts, they barely received a talkin-to. I think Gholston's actions certainly exceeded what the State coaching staff had in mind in terms of toughness and pushing the envelope, there is very little doubt that they are taught to play mean football. Michigan now has to find a way to match that type of toughness without resorting to bullshit like State does to acheive it.
Michigan State genuinely hates Michigan. It just does not seem as personal for Michigan as for State. It hasn't for four years.
October 16th, 2011 at 9:04 PM ^
Those players were not being "punished" for those acts, they barely received a talkin-to. I think Gholston's actions certainly exceeded what the State coaching staff had in mind in terms of toughness and pushing the envelope, there is very little doubt that they are taught to play mean football. Michigan now has to find a way to match that type of toughness without resorting to bullshit like State does to acheive it.
Michigan State genuinely hates Michigan. It just does not seem as personal for Michigan as for State. It hasn't for four years.
October 16th, 2011 at 5:05 PM ^
wild speculation much?
October 16th, 2011 at 5:14 PM ^
Speculation yes it is. But lets look at Dantonio's track record. He has on multiple occasions taken players straight out of jail (one a very violent offense) and back to the playing field. Then yesterday after the game in wich his team had 6 personal fouls he tells the press it was a clean game. What in any of that says to you he runs a tight ship and will discipline Gholston?
October 16th, 2011 at 10:10 PM ^
You are correct. The difference is called hockey vs football.
October 16th, 2011 at 11:18 PM ^
I don't think people are saying we lost because State played dirty ... if anything they kept the game close by giving us 1st down after 1st down. We are just saying they dirty somma bitches, and that's no way to earn respect in college football. We definitely lost .. we got out played, and the playcalling was bad. I would blame the wind more than I would blame Michigan State's dirty azz players.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:09 PM ^
Not one of the things you mentioned Michigan doing was a cheap shot though (Charles being the closest but that was obvious retaliation)
There is a difference between playing and hitting hard (Branch and Ray) and taking complete cheap shots (Gholston and #44)
October 16th, 2011 at 4:15 PM ^
Well Mouton did give a ND player a heluva uppercut a few years ago. I thought the neck twisting of denard was thuggish and disgusting, but some people on here are making it sound like we should play two hand touch out there. The bottom line is Michigan needs to become a much tougher team that has a mean streak like great teams of the past.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:18 PM ^
Mouton I believe got suspended for it I believe and deserved it. You throw a closed fist punch in a football game and you should be out the next game.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:21 PM ^
I agree, but I don't remember us making a unbelievably huge deal out of it. There were two egregious penalties from sparty, but we are making it sound like they played the whole game like thugs. We need to develop an attitude. This is football. This is a contact sport. This is a dirty game.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:30 PM ^
We, Michigan fans, are making it sound like they played the whole games like thugs because that's what happened. There was a deliberate intent on the part of Sparty to injure our players late after the plays were over. Then they celebrated and applauded late hits and injuries on late hits. That's called playing like thugs.
October 16th, 2011 at 7:17 PM ^
Not only did we see it, but Narduzzi said so in his post game interview on SI.com in no uncertain terms. Not only no apologies, but intentional "unnecessary roughness." I believe he said he was just glad they didn't get more flags.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:44 PM ^
Name a game in which one team has 6 personal foul penalties for late hits and roughing the passer. Also, explain why, after bodyslamming our QB well after he released the ball, the opposing player was getting high fives on the sideline while our training staff was helping said QB off the field. That isn't being tough, that is taking cheap shots and getting congratulated for it.
October 16th, 2011 at 5:17 PM ^
what about the sack that knocked denard out; the body slam by #44 wayyyyy after the pass was thrown. i remember a similar play against terry bradshaw and i think that guy was suspended several games. i will try a google search to confirm.
point is, state was out to injure denard; and most likely coached to do so. there was almost an admission of this by one of their coaches.
October 16th, 2011 at 7:08 PM ^
If you're right and this is a "dirty game", then there should be no penalty flags at all. Get rid of the yellow flags. Anything goes.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:20 PM ^
I smell a troll. No one is making the BS "arguments" you keep pretending to have heard.
If you're a closet Spartan, enjoy your victory, but don't act like Gholston's play was on the up-and-up.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:22 PM ^
I said Gholston's play was disgusting...Reading comprhension not a strong suit for you? Because I say I want us to return to the attitude of our glory days, I'm a fucking spartan fan?
October 16th, 2011 at 4:27 PM ^
Yeah I am mad we just lost to sparty for the fourth time....if you are a Michigan fan that should make you mad...
October 16th, 2011 at 4:31 PM ^
Stop insulting fellow Michigan fans.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:20 PM ^
Sparty showed both a clear cut pattern of playing dirty and an obivous lack of respect for the rules.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:09 PM ^
Please link a comment to this thread of anyone on mgoblog saying we lost because MSU played dirty.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:21 PM ^
I think that people are now raising concerted voices to say that Gholston (and, I might suggest, Marcus Rush) be suspended for 1-2 games. Those suspensions, hitting the week of Wisconsin for them, could really hurt Sparty. And that could help us in the Legends. I'm not into complaining just to vent my emotions. I like the idea of complaining where it could have a chance of materially hurting Sparty.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:29 PM ^
I only searched the front page, but here is a quote from the take a note recruits thread
What do we do next year? Tell our guys to just play dirtier than them? Can anyone win when one team is playing that dirty?
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/take-note-recruits-why-you-choose-michigan
October 16th, 2011 at 6:49 PM ^
he read it on an internet blog.
Football like all other sports have rules. Dantonio doesn't respect the rules and his players know it (neither did his mentor - tressel). The rules were ignored by the officials as Gholston earned an ejection, but was not ejected. B1G has past history in regard to this type of behavior.
I, for one, never said that "dirty play" beat us. It was a 4th and 1, and a pick 6 that beat us. I am proud of Michigan's effort and they really did have a chance to win this game deep into the 4th quarter.
Go Blue!
October 16th, 2011 at 4:11 PM ^
None of these compare to Gholston trying to break Denard's neck. I can live with the punch Lewan took etc.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:14 PM ^
I haven't heard anyone blame the loss on State's dirty play. All I have seen is people saying M got beat up by a more physical Spartan team that also happend to be very dirty. If anything State won in spite of their dirty play since they had so many personal foul penalties. They won, M lost, it's that simple. That doesn't mean they weren't cheap as hell, but it sure didn't give them an advantage.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:12 PM ^
We lost to a better team yesterday! No doubt about it cheap shots or no cheap shots we lose to sparty yesterday. But if you think Michigan needs to start playing more like that Michigan State prison team I saw yesterday please leave and become a sparty fan. Being tough and hitting hard is one thing. But what I saw yesterday was a team that had been coached to intentionaly injure and I want Michigan to have no part of that.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:12 PM ^
You're too tough for the net bro. Sweet post.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:33 PM ^
Best response yet to the football is war cyber stallones
October 16th, 2011 at 4:13 PM ^
"I'm getting sick of the whining about how Michigan lost because State played dirty."
I don't think that you would find very many people on this board who have said this. The dirty play has been mentioned - perhaps to death - but I don't recall ANYONE saying that this is the reason we lost. Indeed, some great analyses of mistakes on both sides of the ball have already been made and will likely continue throughout the week. Therein, you may find the answer. If you would, please provide examples of where people have specifically made this connection.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:50 PM ^
I agree wholeheartedly.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:15 PM ^
There is a big difference IMO between a hard hit during play and a cheap-shot after the whistle has blown, when players are supposed to be able to let their guard down. Some of the personal fouls were run-of-the-mill. Gholston's facemask twist clearly went beyond the pale.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:19 PM ^
Since we don't have the means to do anything about some posters, just ignore things for another week or so, and things will be fine. Brian won't miss the hits.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:16 PM ^
We lost b/c of the wind, I honestly feel if this game would have been played in a calm weather environment, it would have been completely different outcome, or at least much closer.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:19 PM ^
Swagger:
Battery:
October 16th, 2011 at 4:23 PM ^
Word.
October 16th, 2011 at 5:31 PM ^
Nicely done.
October 16th, 2011 at 6:49 PM ^
really pisses me off. It's downright ghetto thuggery. The punch was not terrible, it was by no means a classy move, but how much damage can you really do going bare-fist to facemask?That's just a stupid penalty. The horse shit on Denard, though, that was disgusting.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:21 PM ^
They were better. The classless bullshit all happened as salt in the wound. The answer is to get tougher.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:21 PM ^
Give me a break. Had that neck twist been captured in an NFL game what do you think would've happened?
If us not pulling crap like that means we lack toughness I'm perfectly happy with that description. Don't think Hoke and Denard are so happy behind closed doors.
October 16th, 2011 at 7:00 PM ^
They played it off in the pressers – and will continue to do so. However, I am certain Hoke had a few choice words about those Spartans after the game and in the locker room. Next year there will be some boys from EL comming in to Ann Arbor and they will be hit harder than they have ever been hit before. It will be clean, too. It will be good football.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:23 PM ^
Amen, great post.
A well designed run play right at Gholston and that punk mouth Rush (he obvs couldn't even get a OSU offer, even as an ohio kid), knocking them on their ass, would he made them a bit quieter.
And for folks above and prolly below, too, who say "why are you suggesting we fight dirty?!?!" Bugger off - you can't understand context if it smacked you in the face.
What I hope the poster is suggesting is we need more men like Kovacs, who put sticks on folks so hard their helmet flies off (Carder and Persa) and linemen like Lewan who put their defenders in the dirt and wide receivers like Gallon, who after some shoving from his defender put him on his ass.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:34 PM ^
Exactly! Sadly however, if you even suggest this here you are accused of being a sparty fan and endorsing Gholston's actions even though I clearly said they were disgusting...
October 16th, 2011 at 4:58 PM ^
Actually, people are taking issue with you saying "it was just a couple cheap shots...we need to get tougher." That is just plain dumb.