The lack of Big Men since Mitch

Submitted by AVPBCI on
This program besides McGary has been horrible at attracting quality bigs. As long as we continue going after white stiffs and neglect Detroit and other areas To get quality bigs this team will never be more than what it is now. This program needs to go out and get a true big and stop being scared. We know we can get guards and small fwd but until this happens we won't be any better going forward than a 7 seed . This is also one reason I feel coach b got ran out of West virginia.

itsbigcat

February 6th, 2016 at 3:04 PM ^

I know there's a lot of people that are going to tell you to stop freaking out, and I'm not sure what it is, but there is definitely something missing here. I know it's over simplified, but Michigan should be more than a perennial also rans in anything, let alone something as national as basketball. I'm not doing the fire Belien thing and neither are you. But something's gotta give in the next year or two.




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snarling wolverine

February 6th, 2016 at 4:20 PM ^

Well, two things missing are Caris LeVert and Spike Albrecht.  Does that fully explain the last two games?  Maybe not, but it certainly does not help matters.

Having said that, I want to see more development from the young guys.  I loved Dawkins's potential last year, but this year it seems like he's stagnating.

 

mwolverine1

February 6th, 2016 at 3:07 PM ^

I don't think Detroit is necessarily the answer. The quality of basketball in-state has really gone downhill. The Chicago area is probably more fruitful.

FieldingBLUE

February 6th, 2016 at 4:15 PM ^

Beilein gets negative recruited on this very fact. 

McGary was told the same and FLOURISHED. He swung it into a top pick in NBA. 

Beilein's offense works BEST with a quality big man. The myth of Pittsnoggle has haunted him. He was a once in a generation 5 in Beilein's system. He's NEVER had that kind of big here.

Yeoman

February 6th, 2016 at 8:29 PM ^

If you look at the development of Beilein's offense, it started with no bigs--five mobile shooters spreading the floor and taking advantage of the space with back cuts. There was no designated 5, all five players rotated through all five spots as the offense ran. One of the reasons it worked so well is the mismatches you get as defenders are forced out of their usual roles.

Over time he's had to tweak it to incorporate the big players he found he needed for defensive reasons. You can get away with some things in D2 that don't work so well in a power D1 conference.

I think his offense would work best with no big man at all. But there's no way to make that work at the other end, so the only alternative is a big that's either mobile or can shoot, preferably both. Somebody who wants to be on the high post and can step out, not a classic low-post big. Walton, not Shaq.

 

MGlobules

February 6th, 2016 at 9:39 PM ^

he would agree. It's true that that first team he experimented with had no real big man. But he would say, I think does say in a recent interview linked at umhoops, that ideally all the players, 1-5 would be able to do everything. That's a different animal than no big man, and pretty obviously would be preferable. Mitch came close. Too bad he got screwed over and had to move on. We'd be looking at Beilein differently if he hadn't.

Yeoman

February 6th, 2016 at 9:49 PM ^

The "everything" that all five players would ideally be able to do doesn't include any low-post play. I can't find a low post anywhere in any set Beilein's ever designed except for one situation where someone cutting from a guard position posts up on the block momentarily. You have to go through a lot of pictures to catch that one instance, and I don't think it's something he even runs any more.

There are, occasionally, big men that have that skill set. They're rare, and I don't think they're what most people are thinking of when they say they want to recruit bigs.

BigBlue02

February 6th, 2016 at 3:10 PM ^

What would a Michigan basketball thread be without calling for Beilein's firing and good ol fashion racism. God I hate our fanbase sometime

BursleyBaitsBus

February 6th, 2016 at 3:14 PM ^

Recruiting players like Troy WIlliams from Indiana shouldn't be hard for Michigan. Need some athleticism. Our bigs have 0. 

I bet half of MGoBlog has higher verticals than our big men. 

BigBlue02

February 6th, 2016 at 3:21 PM ^

Well, we have a top 100, black, long, athletic big man who has played less than 20 college basketball games and is a redshirt freshman that we have apparently all written off, so I'm not sure even if we signed another one that anyone would notice

Leonhall

February 6th, 2016 at 3:11 PM ^

Michigan isn't dirty. College basketball recruiting is DIRTY...this is code for: unless we start throwing $$& around, we aren't getting 'elite' big men, plain and simple.




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BursleyBaitsBus

February 6th, 2016 at 3:23 PM ^

Um only Trey Burke and Levert? And maybe Tim Hardaway?

Stauskas, Robinson, and McGary had NBA potential from the jump. 

3 against 3. 

Something tells me we're more likely to be successful with recruiting NBA caliber players from the start rather than hoping for late bloomers. 

Yeoman

February 6th, 2016 at 8:36 PM ^

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the sons of former NBA players are probably less susceptible to dirty recruiting tactics. The families don't need the cash, and the parents have a unique appreciation of the importance of quality coaching.

UMinSF

February 6th, 2016 at 3:39 PM ^

The reason UM has so many guys in the NBA is because JB is fantastic at player development.  C'mon, a skinny white kid from Canada with a lot of Youtube videos was not considered prime NBA material. Trey was bypassed by his dream school OSU. Only McGary and GR3 were big-time.

Not all kids are sucked in by dirty tactics and $$, but I think it's fair to say we lose some top kids because JB doesen't dive into the cesspool of dirty basketball recruiting. I'm ok with that.

Jonesy

February 6th, 2016 at 5:51 PM ^

Trey Burke - nobody wanted him

Hardaway - nobody wanted him

GRIII - no body wanted him when we offered and he commited, he blew up later, but he stuck, his dad is rich he doesnt need any dirty money.

Stauskas - nobody wanted him

Caris - nobody wanted him

McGary - no idea why, so there, you got one.

taistreetsmyhero

February 6th, 2016 at 3:13 PM ^

walton is solid but not great.

irvin is not good enough at creating and consistency to be your best player.

maar can't shoot. at all.

duncan is a good 3 point shooter when he is open. but he's not athletic enough to get open against real teams. and his defense is a joke.

the bigs are just all a joke.

everyone is bad at team defense, and at best mediocre at individual defense.

levertisasolid best player, but he can't stay healthy.

growler4

February 6th, 2016 at 5:39 PM ^

I tend to agree with your assessment ... and disagree with some of the other preceding moronic and occasional racist comments.

Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of Belein's system, but when he has top flight players who can play it, it serves us well. Evidence: we have recently gone deep into the NCAA tournament and almost won it.

Yet, when the pieces aren't outstanding, you see what we have seen against the really good teams we've played this year. Really haven't been competitive. We're good enough to make the tourney and maybe win a game or even 2, but that's it. We beat the teams we're supposed to beat and that's about it.

When this team shoots well, it does well. Yet, against teams that really play good defense, they tend not to have good shooting nights, as they are often not left alone, and it's hard for a lot of these guys to create offense. Plus, there's too much standing around on offense without the ball. There is no reliable inside game by a center and power forward to turn to when outside shots aren't falling. Team defense, again, is lacking and is not there to rely upon when the offense falters.

We are who we are.