Kovacs at FS or SS?

Submitted by Mich1993 on

Is Kovacs at FS or SS this year?  He is listed as the starter at FS on the unofficial two deep and at FS in the depth chart by class on mgoblog. 

Based on Kovacs past performance at FS, I had assumed that Carvin Johnson was the FS and Kovacs the SS.  Also, all posts I've seen on mgoblog including the mailbag today have Carvin Johnson at FS.

go16blue

May 5th, 2011 at 9:58 PM ^

FS vs SS can be a bit confusing, especially with the old staff's definition of it. Kovaks will be, without a doubt, a box safety (thats just the term i use to avoid confusion), while carvin/woolfolk/whoever will be deep safety.

Magnus

May 5th, 2011 at 10:01 PM ^

Everyone's saying that Kovacs is the SS and Carvin Johnson is the FS, but that's the opposite of what it was in the spring game.

Kovacs was on the weak side (FS) and Johnson was on the strong side (SS).

colin

May 5th, 2011 at 10:02 PM ^

we ran a ton of zone blitz stuff in the SG and he was almost always an underneath defender.  not blitzing but not in the three deep either.

Pea-Tear Gryphon

May 5th, 2011 at 10:54 PM ^

Why so down on Kovacs? He's been our best defensive back the last two years. Is it because he's tinted a shade too light or the fact that he can't shake the walk-on label or you hate grits? I like Kovacs as the box safety as he's one of our best tacklers and has improved each year he's started.

Pea-Tear Gryphon

May 5th, 2011 at 11:22 PM ^

I might give you Warren, but it's really close. I think Kovacs was more of an impact player in 2009 than Woolfolk. Second on the team in tackles (Woolfolk 10th), 2 forced fumbles (Woolfolk 0), 1 Int (Woolfolk 0). The only main category that he wasn't better than Woolfolk was in pass breakups, which he lost 1-0.

Kovacs and Warren were the two best DB's on that team in 2009. They played different positions, so Kovacs had more tackles and forced fumbles, but Warren had more PBU's and INT's.

Magnus

May 5th, 2011 at 11:45 PM ^

I don't think numbers tell the whole story.  Woolfolk was an okay safety but a pretty damn good corner in 2009.  His numbers might not have stood out, but if you rewatch the second half of 2009, I think you'll find that opponents didn't really test Woolfolk.  They seemed to try former 5-star Donovan Warren more than Woolfolk.  Woolfolk wasn't perfect (OT against MSU, long pass against WMU), but Kovacs was pretty bad against the pass in 2009.

There's a reason that the defense tanked once Woolfolk wasn't the deep man.  Not that it was entirely Kovacs' fault (Mike Williams played safety, too), but if I were redrafting the 2009 team, I'd still choose Troy over Jordan.

Pea-Tear Gryphon

May 5th, 2011 at 11:57 PM ^

I remember the same about other teams avoiding Woolfolk's side of the field to try Warren. I took a look at the numbers because it does show an overview of the season. Kovacs just seemed to be around the ball all year long. The numbers seem to back that up. Would I trade Woolfolk for Kovacs straight up? No, but they don't play the same position. Even when Troy was at safety, he was sharing the field with Kovacs and not replacing him.

My original point is that Jordan Kovacs was the farthest thing from our problem the last two years. The fact that people keep wanting to push him aside for any other player, who can't seem overtake him on the depth chart, is ignoring what he brings to the table.

Magnus

May 6th, 2011 at 5:34 AM ^

I agree that Kovacs shouldn't automatically be pushed aside.  I grudgingly came to that conclusion last year, because I realized that he was making more plays than his more athletic counterparts.  I just disagreed with the notion that he was our best defensive back for the past couple years.  On pure numbers, you're probably - no, definitely - right.  On ability level, he's probably #3.

ND Sux

May 6th, 2011 at 7:37 AM ^

all the other analysis aside, that's what I saw on the field last year.  I agree that some people judge him with the "walk-on" label somewhere in the back of their mind.  Who cares? 

If another guy steps up and takes the job this year, then great...that only makes the team better.  My guess is that Kovacs starts for the rest of his career at M.  And here's another nugget: for whatever reason, he stays healthy.  Given AMSHG, that's huge. 

MichFan1997

May 6th, 2011 at 3:17 AM ^

if you don't mind me interjecting. Raw numbers don't tell much of a story for any position. I turn to the NFL for example. Nnamdi Asomughagah is the best CB in the NFL. He only had 19 tackles in 14 games last year with 0 interceptions. This was because teams literally avoided passing in his direction. So anytime you're dealing with raw numbers, keep things like this in mind. Raw numbers don't give you a whole story.

maizenblue92

May 5th, 2011 at 11:08 PM ^

He is a good cerebral player but that doesn't do you a lot of good when you are a step late. He is good in tight situations but in space he is consistently out classed talent wise. And in a Cover 2 system he is going to have to cover half the field and we saw he can't do that. He was burned by Purdue in 09, Wisconsin in 09, and etc.

maizenblue92

May 5th, 2011 at 11:25 PM ^

Kovacs is a tweener, not fast enough for safety and too small for linebacker. He doesnt fit into a 4-3 cover 2 scheme. There is a role for tweeners in a 3-3-5 but not a 4-3. As far as grit goes, I like on the basketball court or in the trenches, just not in the secondary.

JDVan

May 6th, 2011 at 1:08 PM ^

A tweener is a tag that deals with size. You are correct he is not fast enough but that is just a lack of ability. He is nowhere near the build to come close to playing the LB position.

 

EDIT: I love me some kovacs

Hail-Storm

May 6th, 2011 at 12:05 PM ^

Why would he have to cover half the field in a cover 2? with a 4-3 under we have 4 DB's. Wouldn't he, as the Strong safety or Box play not be the safety to drop into coverage. I also assumed that the field was split into 3rds and halves, but the corner would be the one to cover a half. I am really green when it comes to defenses.

 

edit: I looked it up, and see how in cover two the safeties need to cover half the field, but it looks like man coverage by the corners in this case as well as the Will covering the slot.  Unless the corner blitzes, it seems like a smart player can keep the play in front of him and maintain angles for help.  Kovacs seems like a smart player that could still handle this.

Magnus

May 6th, 2011 at 12:28 PM ^

There are many coverages that could be run in this defense.  If we run a Cover 2 zone, Kovacs would be responsible for a deep half of the field, whether he's the FS or SS.  What you see in the bottom illustration is 2 Man, which is with two deep safeties and man underneath.  He would still have the deep half, although that would make him less susceptible to the deep ball.

Hail-Storm

May 6th, 2011 at 1:30 PM ^

the cover 2 helps the Safeties keep the play in front of them, and requires more athletic corners. I know speed is always wanted, but I don't see Kovacs being a liability in this situation, since he is a smart player and a sure tackler. I do think he could be bumped though later in the year if one of the younger more athletic guys proves he understands the defense and can tackle well.

This also looks like the 4-3 under will allow a young corner to step in quicker, as it looks like he would be playing man to man on the line.

Magnus

May 6th, 2011 at 2:42 PM ^

Cover 2 zone is actually very problematic for safeties that lack athleticism (which Kovacs does to some degree).  And if the corners play in a zone system, then they don't need to be extremely athletic because they don't have a ton of ground to cover.  The Bears, for example, have been able to get solid cornerback play out of bigger corners who wouldn't necessarily be great in man coverage.

If we're running Cover 2 with man underneath, then yeah, Kovacs' lack of athleticism wouldn't be terribly problematic, because he would have another defender helping him with any receivers who entered his deep half.  However, Cover 2 man has its own shortcomings, because it takes defenders' eyes out of the backfield, prevents the defense from sending a lot of blitzes, and commits a lot of manpower to the back end.

Regardless, I think we're going to see a lot of Cover 2 zone, some Man Free, some Cover 3, and a lot of quarter-quarter-halves this year.

Hail-Storm

May 6th, 2011 at 3:30 PM ^

I wasn't thinking of the corner Zone issues, but was hoping that we could see a little less of the zones, most likely because I was jaded by those 15 yard cusions we occasionally deployed. . I do understand that when the corner blitzed, it would leave the safety on their own, but assumed the loss route time would allow the safety to cheat up on the play.

Anyways, it's fun to see the breakdowns and who is going where. Obviously with Martin moving around, it proves the coaches are not shy about putting the best players in the best positions.  

BRCE

May 7th, 2011 at 2:35 PM ^

Kovacs was horrendous in 2009. A huge liability. Watch the Wisconsin game from that year. The gameplan was "Identify where #32 is in coverage. Throw there." And it more than worked.

He played closer to the line last year and was much better, but still not someone who couldn't be replaced if the right guy develops.

chewieblue

May 6th, 2011 at 9:56 AM ^

He was playing strong at the practice I saw this spring.  

FWIW I know there are bigger, faster kids.... but I love the guy.  Any guy who loves Michigan as much as he does is always going to play his butt off for us.  

mgokev

May 6th, 2011 at 10:07 AM ^

Let's not forget that Kovacs was 2010 All Conference honorable mention and earned 2009 CollegeFootballNews.com Freshman All-America second team recognition and 2009 Sporting News Freshman All-Big Ten honors.

To me, that shows that the guy is good...but that's just me, and well, everyone else that votes on these awards.

Chi-Blue

May 6th, 2011 at 1:20 PM ^

In a perfect world we would combine thee raw talent of Robinson with Kovac's understanding of what needs to happen. The book on Robinson is that he is an uber athletic specimen, but doesnt do a good job of knowing what or where he is supposed to be. I think that Kovacs probably wins out this year starting, with Robinson getting more PT as the year goes on and as he understands the system. This should turn into Robinson being the starter going into Fall camp 2012 for his JR year.

Coaches often times will go with the guy they trust over talent, especially in a position as vital as Safety. I love Kovacs and what he has achieved, however if Robinson finds the field one would assume its because his understanding is finally matching his ability.The fact is that a starting Robinson makes our defensive backfield much better.

Hlprn302

May 6th, 2011 at 2:24 PM ^

Like the way OSU played Moeller when he was healthy? Anybody familiar with OSU's schemes able to comment on whether Kovacs could fit into that role well. They always seemed like similar players to me, with good awareness but limited athleticism.