($) http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7904173/2013-nfl-draft-mel-kip....
Johnathan Hankins at 11. of all the defensive recruits the former staff screwed up, this might be the worst.
so much for that
Kiper's initial big board with Lewan at 12 overall
May 9th, 2012 at 12:49 PM
#1
Kiper's initial big board with Lewan at 12 overall
May 9th, 2012 at 12:51 PM | 
At 12 what? Player drafted?
At 12 what? Player drafted?
May 9th, 2012 at 12:54 PM |
I'm sorry, but it's pretty
I'm sorry, but it's pretty
I'm sorry, but it's pretty obvious that Lewan is the #1 Twosie rider.
"There will be blood on the field and it won't be mine." -KK
May 9th, 2012 at 5:14 PM |
Who is #3?
Who is #3?
Must be a bummer to be the #3 Twosie rider
May 9th, 2012 at 1:01 PM |
Only other player on any of
Only other player on any of
Lewan also listed at #2 Junior OT (behind Alabama's Fluker).
Only other player on any of Kiper's lists (there are many position lists): Denard at #5 Senior WR (not including juniors that can declare).
"It would be a travesty, it would be ridiculous to all of a sudden come back and get the feeling back, get the health back, feel good again and then all of a sudden go throw some other colors on my shirt and go coach."
May 9th, 2012 at 1:02 PM |
Don't know what to think of
Don't know what to think of
Don't know what to think of Kiper anymore. Lewan at 12, but he also has three Spartans in his top 25.
edit: So that's what the moderate feature looks like.
May 9th, 2012 at 1:19 PM |
Ahh the power of moderating.
Ahh the power of moderating.
Ahh the power of moderating.
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing” - Bo Schembechler
May 9th, 2012 at 1:29 PM |
MSU actually has some talent
MSU actually has some talent
Gholston has all the talent and potential, he just needs to show it more consistently.
I think Adams (CB) will slide probably into the second round, but he seemed to make some plays last year and has the height that the NFL likes. Probably needs more weight. One thing that could make him slip is he is primarily a zone CB, so he faces a similar problem as Molk and zone blocking teams.
He also has Bell (RB) up there, which is a bit more of a surprise. I think Bell will surprise a lot of people this year as he will get the bulk of the carries and his O-line should at least be a little better, but he still has a lot to prove in my mind to be considered a first round pick. He should be a bull at the combine, but I'm not sure about how his 40 time will look. He has pretty good feet too, so it'll be interesting to see how that develops. I expect him a little lower than that as of now though, I think Kiper might be jumping the gun a bit on him. Last year he did pass a RB on the depth chart that ended up getting drafted, so I would expect him to be at least around a day 2 pick.
May 9th, 2012 at 1:01 PM |
May be MSU's best showing in the NFL draft ever
May be MSU's best showing in the NFL draft ever
He's got Johny Adams at number 14, Gholston at 17, and LeVeon Bell at 21.
We're not teaching them about sports, we're teaching them about life!
May 9th, 2012 at 1:06 PM |
Remember how Worthy was top 5
Remember how Worthy was top 5
Remember how Worthy was top 5 on his first big board last year?
Somehow I just don't see Bell going 1st round. Big body, and a good runner, but doesn't have the top end speed, and hasn't even had a 1000 yard season yet. But who knows, could happen.
May 9th, 2012 at 1:09 PM |
Agree on Bell
Agree on Bell
I haven't heard anything on him about being rated so highly. Maybe Kiper sees loads of potential.
May 9th, 2012 at 9:02 PM |
Didn't Edwin Baker go in the
Didn't Edwin Baker go in the
Didn't Edwin Baker go in the 7th round? It was definitely not earlier than the 5th. Baker was the better runner then and I guess I can see how Bell has more potential to develop as the better prospect, but 1st round. Doubtful. I do not pay much attention to the NFL, but what are Kiper's qualifications for his job? Didn't TVH or Magnus once say that his opinion really isn't that insightful but since he was the 1st guy to start evaluating all these prospects that everyone just gives his opinions more authority? I mean, he said that he thought Leaf was a mature QB who was nearly as good if not as good as Manning and that didn't go so well. Here is a google seach on Kiper from some random website. My favorite is his prediction that Jamarcus Russell would energize the Raiders franchise and remined him of John Elway: http://www.ramsrule.com/herd/read.php?5,116051,116063
"The unexamined life is not worth living." Socrates.
May 9th, 2012 at 3:51 PM |
1967?
1967?
#1 Bubba Smith
#2 Clint Jones
#5 George Webster
#8 Gene Washington
May 9th, 2012 at 1:06 PM |
Although way early, great for
Although way early, great for
Although way early, great for Lewan. I don't think he will slip out of lottery status with his physicality and high ceiling.
May 9th, 2012 at 1:07 PM |
Just looked at my calendar
Just looked at my calendar
It's May 9. Kiper needs to take a vacation. At this point, the board is more likely to mislead than lead. The only use is to compare it to the actual draft almost a year from now so that we can mock his mock draft.
"Mattison must break you. Jake Ryan is his tool."
May 9th, 2012 at 1:08 PM |
Does anyone remember
Does anyone remember
Where Jake Long was before he decided to come back for his senior year?
"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"
May 9th, 2012 at 1:28 PM |
Pretty sure he was a first
Pretty sure he was a first
Pretty sure he was a first round lock. I remember seeing him at the Heidelberg just after he had decided to come back and thanking him for one more year. It was also all you can eat taco night.
Except for the other thing. That hurts the most. But the lack of respect hurts the second most.
May 9th, 2012 at 1:32 PM |
Tacos at the Heidelberg? That
Tacos at the Heidelberg? That
Tacos at the Heidelberg? That makes sense.
May 9th, 2012 at 3:28 PM |
They had
They had
They had wing night, nacho night and (more appropriately) pretzel night when I was there.
Intensity is a lot of guys that run fast.
May 9th, 2012 at 1:18 PM |
What are people who are in
What are people who are in
What are people who are in the know sayin about the odds he returns after this coming year?
May 9th, 2012 at 1:20 PM |
Name to remember
Name to remember
Barkevious Mingo. Potential top 10 pick. Former Michigan recruit before he signed with LSU. Best name of the draft, bar none
May 9th, 2012 at 1:31 PM |
I wont know what to think.
I wont know what to think.
I think Taylor would be wise to wait after the season, then address the draft just as every single other talented Junior will do. If hes a top 10 pick the quesiton becomes "will staying antoher year guarentee me an overall #1 pick or not" because the contract from taht vastly outweighs rolling out early.
For comparison:
2011
Cam Newton: 4 years, 22 million 22 million guarenteed - ~ 5.50 m/yr
JJ Watt (#12 pick) 4 years, 11 million, 11 million guarenteed. - 2.75 m/yr
2010 - Different CBA
Sam Bradford: 5 years, 78 million, 50 millon guarenteed : 15.6 m/yr
Ryan Matthews (#12) 5 years, 26 million, 15 million guarenteed.
Essentially, is it worht 10 million dollars (or 4 times your potential yearly salary) to leave early? Might be. Might not.
On the fifth night—possibly the sixth—a breeze arose.
It was cool and dewy.
May 9th, 2012 at 1:37 PM |
I could be wrong, particularly with the new CBA
I could be wrong, particularly with the new CBA
But comparing players at different positions isn't probably the best approach. I know it's not exactly easy to get info for something that doesn't exist, but DEs tend to make less than QBs. Also, it is no sure thing that he would go number 1 overall. More than likely if he was projected at number 12 he would end up about the same the next year (if only because there isn't much room to move up and there will be another new class behind him).
May 9th, 2012 at 1:57 PM |
In the draft
In the draft
you pay for the pick. If your agent is any good, he will merely reference "2012 X team paid Y dollars I want X +/- 1 million."
Von Miller LB , 2012, 21 Million Guarenteed #2 pick,
Tyron Smith OT 2012, 12 million Guaqr, #9 pick
For instance, Trent Williams was the #4 pick (#1 OL) in 2010 and pulled in 58 million wiht 30 guarenteed. Teams pay for their top 5 picks, usually well into 8 figures.
And while for most positions waiting a year doesn't guarentee you move up, OTs are one of the two cornerstones of NFL franchises (QBs are the other). If he is the 2nd best tackle already this year, he will almost assuredly be the best tackle next year.
On the fifth night—possibly the sixth—a breeze arose.
It was cool and dewy.
May 9th, 2012 at 2:00 PM |
I figured that Space Coyote
I figured that Space Coyote
I figured that Space Coyote was right about QBs getting paid more, but at least in 2011, that wasn't what happened. Kind of interesting, actually:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/07/rookie-tr...
May 9th, 2012 at 2:12 PM |
It's all slotted now guys like the NBA
It's all slotted now guys like the NBA
There's very little room for negotiation with the new CBA.
T
May 9th, 2012 at 2:25 PM |
Another reason to ponder
Another reason to ponder
one less year for the player to get to their 2nd contract which will be larger if they live up to the organization's expectations.
May 9th, 2012 at 3:54 PM |
True.
True.
But also one year closer to washing out, getting cut and resigning for 1 mil a year in 3 years.
On the fifth night—possibly the sixth—a breeze arose.
It was cool and dewy.
May 9th, 2012 at 1:33 PM |
I'll say this about Lewan
I'll say this about Lewan
I think he has that kind of potential, but he still needs to live up to it and continue to improve this year. He is solid against the run and is pretty good about getting leverage, but he could still add some strength to make him more dominant.
In pass pro he still reaches too often. I think getting used to blocking for a QB playing both out of the gun and under center will help him, and I think working with an O-line coach more astute in those concepts will help him as well. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up around that area, but like most of these players, they still need to grow into that potential.
May 9th, 2012 at 1:38 PM |
If I'm not mistaken, last year Kiper had Ryan Lindley
If I'm not mistaken, last year Kiper had Ryan Lindley
At the top of this list.
Janeane Garofalo (Film Actors Guild): "As actors it is our responsibility to read the newspaper, and then say what we read on television like it's our opinion"
May 9th, 2012 at 2:18 PM |
I was wondering
I was wondering
how well this initial list has held up in years past. I'm guessing it has little bearing on what the list looks like in 11 months.
For the record, I'm not a eugenicist.
May 9th, 2012 at 1:45 PM |
Can someone post the full list
Can someone post the full list
Please.
"We want the Big 10 championship. And we’re going to win it as a TEAM"
May 9th, 2012 at 3:14 PM |
Ethics
Ethics
Is this against the rules or code of ethics....or just illegal?
"We want the Big 10 championship. And we’re going to win it as a TEAM"
May 9th, 2012 at 1:51 PM |
Negged for the Johnathon
Negged for the Johnathon
Negged for the Johnathon Hankins stuff. He was a 3-star recruit, not noticed Nationally, the 20th player in the State, and not even ranked as one of the better DT's, and someone who Tressel took a shot a shot on because he had an extra schollie. By the time he committed we had 4-star Richard Ash; someone with a whole lot of attention Nationally, and was ranked as the 25th best DT in the class. We also had Terry Talbott, who committed sooner. Fault the previous defensive coaches for a lot of stuff, but missing a low-ranked player shouldn't be one of them
If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?
May 9th, 2012 at 2:04 PM |
Aren't coaches responsible
Aren't coaches responsible
Aren't coaches responsible for doing their own scouting? Or should they just rely on Rivals and Scout?
It would have been nice if our coaches had spotted Hankins's potential.
c/o '02
May 9th, 2012 at 2:16 PM |
I have to call BS on this one
I have to call BS on this one
Huge miss. Coaches were telling him he needed to get in better shape and earn his scholie when he already had the strength and size as a HS Senior and we had a severe need on the line and were way under the 85 player scholarship limit at the time.
T
May 9th, 2012 at 2:40 PM |
He didn't need to get in great shape...
He didn't need to get in great shape...
He'll never be an every down player, period.
But our former staff put an emphasis on smaller, quicker, more built guys. That's why guys like BWC and QWash struggled in the strength and conditioning program. It was way more running, way more finese.
Personally, I thought it was bullshit. We don't need guys 310 to look like they're 265. We don't need to take 2 years to break down your body and make you weak only to build you back up the way the wanted. Look at the best defenses in the country, they have a few fat boys in the middle who control the LOS. It's not a body building contest.
Hankins would've most certainly been at Michigan with this staff. And he may be even better than he is today.
...another thing, do you think ANYONE on those Rich Rod staffs could identify a quality defensive lineman as good as Hoke, Mattison or Montgomery?
Not a chance.
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
May 9th, 2012 at 2:19 PM |
You're putting way too much into stars, Hankins offer list
You're putting way too much into stars, Hankins offer list
Included Alabama, Ohio, Florida, Oklahoma, Wisconsin, and Virginia. Hankins was no slouch coming out of high school.
Ash had a nice offer list as well, but he's from Florida, and didn't have an offer from Florida, Florida State, or Miami. (according to Rivals) If I'm not mistaken, Ash was an early riser, but then his stock started to decline his senior year due to his weight. Florida showed early interest and then backed off.
Janeane Garofalo (Film Actors Guild): "As actors it is our responsibility to read the newspaper, and then say what we read on television like it's our opinion"
May 9th, 2012 at 2:42 PM |
I'm not saying that Hankins
I'm not saying that Hankins
I'm not saying that Hankins didn't have some impressive offers, but up until just recently there's been no mention of him on the board, and not many complaints. We've been content with our guys, and now all of a sudden we're going, "Oh great, way to miss him. He was obviously gonna be great". It's just a quick search, but of all the stuff I've found on this site about the 2010 there has been zero mention of missing out on Hankins. The only thing is Brian saying that we missed out on a true nose tackle, and saying it was a downer, but that our guys should be solid and a little underrated. In fact people were bashing him before he committed too, saying there were issues about his work ethic and being in shape
If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?
May 9th, 2012 at 3:35 PM |
I agree. Hankins wasn't a guy
I agree. Hankins wasn't a guy
I agree. Hankins wasn't a guy that many people were upset about at the time, because the coaches had legit gripes about him and we took 2 DTs we were happy with (and who were more guru approved than Hankins).
Just because a guy we didn't offer overachieves, that doesn't make it an epic miss. Almost every year there are guys we passed on who outperform some of the ones we signed.
This needs to be dropped.
May 9th, 2012 at 5:44 PM |
lionsfan - that's nonsense.
lionsfan - that's nonsense.
lionsfan - that's nonsense. hankins would've committed if offered and everyone but our former staff thought he was worth the offer. i was an RR supporter, but they screwed this one up.
May 9th, 2012 at 2:12 PM |
Top 5 seniors at each position
Top 5 seniors at each position
If you go on to read his side article about top 5 seniors at each position ($), it has Denard Robinson at number 5 for....WR.
fuck yall
We're not teaching them about sports, we're teaching them about life!
May 9th, 2012 at 2:29 PM |
New CBA this year might make
New CBA this year might make
New CBA this year might make him think about coming back.. They dont have the guarantee $ like the used too... Staford got dbl money of Crazy legs Newton .. ( kinda messed up).. Also have to consider that Morris might be QB and have to move him to the right side.. Just a thought
Go Blue
May 9th, 2012 at 3:18 PM |
I thought I was a CFB fan
I thought I was a CFB fan
but I have never heard of Tyler Wilson Ark QB, let alone him being the 13th best player in the next draft....
Has the whole world gone CRAZY!?!
May 9th, 2012 at 4:06 PM |
Then that's on you because he
Then that's on you because he
Then that's on you because he had a very productive season on a top team in the SEC. He as easily the top QB in that conference.
At 12 what? Player drafted? Left Tackles? Twosie riding?
Can you clarify the title a bit for those of us without access behind the paywall?