Kiper on Brandon Graham and Zoltan
So, Mel Kiper Jr. has Brandon Graham and Zoltan Mesko as the best players available at each of their positions, according to an article on Rivals this morning. I personally can't stand Mel Kiper. The guy is arrogant, pushy and thinks he's God's gift to the NFL draft and ESPN's viewing audience. But I like what the man is positing at the moment..... I'm so conflicted. Here's the article.
http://michigan.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1029975
The article goes on to talk about how he also thinks Schilling is the number 4 Jr. guard (believable) and that Obi Ezeh is the number 5 Jr. MLB (hmmmmm).
December 18th, 2009 at 9:18 AM ^
he is hit and miss, just like everyone else
December 18th, 2009 at 10:28 AM ^
kiper is hit and miss, just like bill bergen.
/obscure reference
December 18th, 2009 at 12:08 PM ^
I'd put his ratio at around hit/miss2
December 18th, 2009 at 9:29 AM ^
"Carson Butler is a great blocker", yeah Mel, good call.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:33 AM ^
And the Lions have "NO CHOICE" but to take Stafford at number 1.... Can't stand Kiper.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:54 AM ^
Considering Kiper was friends with the Stafford family since Matt was in high school
December 18th, 2009 at 12:15 PM ^
strange that you hate Kiper for being right about something
December 18th, 2009 at 8:10 PM ^
What was Kiper right about? I was making fun of Kiper for saying that the Lions SHOULD take Stafford, not that they WOULD take Stafford. You must have a crystal ball or something b/c I don't quite see where Stafford has proven that he was worth the number one overall pick and 65 million from the organization owned by the same family that can't afford to pay thousands of workers that they're laying off in a city that can barely support itself. Sorry if I failed to support Kiper in his emphatic rantings for the Lions to take Stafford.
December 19th, 2009 at 6:14 AM ^
And I'm saying Stafford was the obvious pick then and now.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:32 AM ^
Good thing Kiper doesn't do college recruiting - could drive us insane. He's an annoying nut job but I think he is well-meaning and more or less harmless.
December 18th, 2009 at 1:10 PM ^
Sure, but how could you be more harmful as a draft analyst? Getting things completely wrong is about as bad as it gets.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:33 AM ^
he also had Obi has the number 5 ILB for juniors....is that why he got benched for a walk-on?
December 18th, 2009 at 10:07 AM ^
He has Leach at #3
December 18th, 2009 at 9:36 AM ^
had mike williams as his #1 player in 2005...how did that one work out???
its been proven that kiper doesn't watch enough tape of these kids when they are coming out, carson butler is a perfect example.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:45 AM ^
I actually really like Kiper and Todd McShay. Both are ballers, I could listen to them talk for hours. They really do know their shit. Even if they say something stupid once in a while. I am willing to bet those 2 guys watch more film than anyone else in the entire country.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:52 AM ^
How is Ezeh ranked at all?
December 18th, 2009 at 9:55 AM ^
Kiper is more about quantity of information, not quality. I admire him more when he spouts off about a pick in the 6th round than in the first round.
Don't take him too seriously.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:57 AM ^
kiper and his robert goulet look is almost complete. just add the lip scarf and it is written.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:00 AM ^
Is Graham going to be a DE or OLB?
December 18th, 2009 at 10:16 AM ^
Right now he's just listed as Pure Awesome.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:15 AM ^
It's nice to hear good things about Michigan players, but I take Kiper's opinion with a grain of salt. I'm too lazy to find it, but I remember him praising Carson Butler's blocking as one of his best attributes. Massacring nerds, definitely. Blocking, no.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:20 AM ^
I know that Kiper is an easy target, but everyone who prognosticates on draft picks is essential guessing. They might be educated guesses, but guessing nonetheless. People remember Kiper's mistakes because they are on television for months on end; I'm sure if you pulled old draft reports by the guys at SI, ESPN, and the web you'd find quite a few boneheaded choices as well.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:27 AM ^
People don't dislike Mel b/c he doesn't know what he's talking about. If that were true, nobody on this site would like anyone else on it. People dislike Mel b/c he doesn't know what he's talking about, but arrogantly calls everyone else around him a moron when they don't agree with his opinions on prospects. Todd McShay is often wrong as well, but I really like the guy b/c he's humble. He doesn't pretend he's an NFL draft god like Kiper does. And to be honest with you, McShay knows what he's talking about more than Kiper does on top of it.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:49 AM ^
Kiper might come across as arrogant - I'm not arguing with you about that. But he is an analyst trying to keep his brand out there. I'm sure he spends days reviewing tape and looking over stats, and to be fair that is about all he can do. His calls are right more often than not, and people remember his failures because it is natural to remember colossal screw-ups than when he says a top guy is going to be good.
I personally like McShay more, but he also sometimes talks about of his butt and can come across as a bit cocky. These guys kind of need to be super-confident, because otherwise the viewer is not going to believe him and then why is he on TV?
I think it is easy to criticize a guy like Kiper when he says Obi Ezeh is going to be a top LB or Curtis Painter is a top-5 pick, but that is because we see these players most saturdays. But ask the average UM fan about the free safety at Nebraska, and I'm fairly certain few would have any idea about his abilities. There is just so much information out there, so many names and positions, that these guys really must rely on stats and a few minutes of game film to formulate an opinion on the middling guys. I'm sure Kiper and McShay have watched hours of footage on Suh or Graham because those guys are expected to be top draft choices. I'm not going to fault them for making a throwaway statement about the potential of a junior linebacker. And as for Carson Butler, everyone agreed that he had the physical tools to be a great TE; he just needed to get his head on straight. Guys like Kiper have to guess a bit about guys who underachieved, figuring out if they can get it together under a new coaching staff and a different environment than college. I'm not saying it is right, but there are enough examples where it did pan out that they'll take the risk of sounding dumb.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:26 AM ^
I think it's funny that so many people on this board say "Well, Mel Kiper didn't know that Carson Butler's a bad blocker, so he doesn't know anything about football."
Yet those same people apparently ignore the times when he recites the Combine scores and season statistics for an unknown kid from Jacksonville State.
1 mistake + 1,000 correctly remembered bits of analysis/trivia = imbecile
December 18th, 2009 at 10:32 AM ^
Kiper doesn't just make one mistake. And he doesn't remember those statistics, he has them right in front of him. Which is all he bases his opinions on. Which is why he thinks Obi Ezeh is a top five linebacker prospect, b/c Ezeh's stats the past several years have been really good. Anyone that watches Ezeh knows better than to trust the stats. But that's all Mel does is read off a list of stats provided to him by others. The Butler thing is just one example of hundreds where he's proved to have no clue about prospects. It's just a good example for those on this board to relate to and understand, but it's also representative of a lot of the things that comes out of his mouth.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:32 AM ^
and not to blame or fault Kiper, but a majority of sportscasters or newscasters, just recite what is in front of them.
It's like blaming the TV person who reads the weather to you for mistakenly analyzing/ predicting it.
December 18th, 2009 at 1:57 PM ^
3 inches of partly cloudy off the front porch.
-My Grandpa
December 18th, 2009 at 12:07 PM ^
I'm with you on this one Magnus.
Easy = Hating on someone who has a prominent position at ESPN.
Hard = Reviewing countless hours of game tape to develop opinions on approx. 300 athletes (when you take into account undrafted and juniors who might enter but don't).
December 18th, 2009 at 10:31 AM ^
Also, I really think Brandon Graham will be a defensive end in the NFL. I know he's a little bit short for a prototypical defensive end, but I think he's powerful enough to play there. I also think there's a bit of a shortage of 3-4 teams in the NFL for a team to spend its top pick on him.
If he does go to a 3-4 team, though, I could see the Arizona Cardinals as a possible destination. It would be kind of crazy for the Cardinals to have Branch AND Watson AND Graham on the same squad, though.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:35 AM ^
Graham is a little bit short yes but his weight is where it should be for DE. A 269 lbs. DE that can do multiple back flips and has the athleticism that he does is fine to play DE in the NFL in my book. I would think his athleticism would simply allow NFL coaches the option of playing him as a 3-4 OLB as well. IMO this should raise his draft stock b/c he can play either.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:01 AM ^
He might be another Dwight Freeny? Same kind of motor.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:47 AM ^
How do you know Kiper is just "handed" these statistics and has them right in front of him? I know all the announcers on draft day have a sheaf of papers in front of them, but who wouldn't? I'm sure Kiper watches film and does some of his own research. Yes, he probably has people working for him, but that's like saying Jim Tressel doesn't know anything about defense because he has a defensive coordinator.
I know he's made several mistakes. I didn't mean to imply that the Carson Butler thing was the only thing he's ever done wrong. But if he makes a boneheaded statement 10% of the time, people always latch onto the boneheaded statements rather than the 90% of the time he's correct. The draft is inherently a difficult thing to predict, and sometimes players who are short and supposedly weak-armed end up being NFL MVP-caliber players, such as Drew Brees or Kurt Warner, who have plenty of arm strength.
(Those are just round numbers, by the way.)
December 18th, 2009 at 8:19 PM ^
Not once. I said I can't stand him, which means he annoys me. I don't hate the guy, I don't even know him. I hate what he says though. Besides, I think you have your percentages incorrect. I'd switch them around. 90% of the time wrong and 10% of the time correct.
December 18th, 2009 at 8:53 PM ^
When did I say you hated him?
December 18th, 2009 at 11:04 AM ^
Players Mel Kiper listed Mike Williams ahead of in 2005:
Ronnie Brown
Cedric Benson
Frank Gore
Aaron Rogers
Justin Tuck
Marion Barber
Brandon Jacobs
Darren Sproles
Cadillac Williams
Demarcus Ware
Shawne Merriman
Antrel Rolle
December 18th, 2009 at 11:35 AM ^
Not to defend the man because I don't really care about him one way or the other but the NFL draft is very hit and miss and nobody is 100% all the time.
In 98 Ryan Leaf was considered to be one of the two best players on the board by just about everybody. We all know how that turned out.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:45 AM ^
Good Lord.
Seriously, is your argument against Mel Kiper based on the fact that he projected Mike Williams ahead of all those guys?
Then I'm sure you could make a case for every general manager in pro sports to be a joke, too, because they've all taken lesser players ahead of great players. Even though Joe Dumars won an NBA title, he's a joke, too, because he picked Darko ahead of Carmelo and Bosh and D. Wade.
Give me a break.
December 18th, 2009 at 1:32 PM ^
I don't know what Joe Dumars has to do with Mel Kiper.
However, Joe D has made some questionable moves as of late.
break granted.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:06 PM ^
I have a couple of friends who are NFL scouts. They openly laugh at Kiper and his antics. They basically state he is less than clueless, and they have no idea where he gets his data from as it is usually about 99% crap. They cut McShay some slack as apparently he put in some time doing actual scouting, as opposed to Kiper. I give Mel credit for being the first media person to focus on the NFL draft and to carve himself out a niche doing it, but it doesnt change the fact dude has zero clue what he is talking about...
Aug
December 18th, 2009 at 12:28 PM ^
i prefer mcshay to kiper at this point but you've gotta give kiper his props. he cornered this market and built his "brand" from nothing. he's definitely entertaining during the draft and i hope he stays around for a long time to come. i'd argue with saying what he has is "99% crap." a majority of the teams out there make bonehead decisions and have shitty scouting. drafting is a crap shoot that very, very few teams are truly good at. kiper is usually, yeah the carson butler thing really turned me off, pretty good at overall talent evaluation. it's the mental aspects that these teams have to assess and where most teams make mistakes. at that level, the talent differences are usually somewhat marginal (outside of freaks like moss or peterson) and it's the preparation and hard work that determine how much success a player will have.
December 18th, 2009 at 1:49 PM ^
The remark about Joe Dumars means that scouts and executives alike make mistakes on players all the time.
Eighteen or nineteen teams passed on Randy Moss.
Every single team passed on Tom Brady several times.
Joe Dumars passed on Bosh, Wade, and Anthony.
Every GM makes mistakes, but that doesn't mean they're all horrible GMs. Why do we hold Kiper to a higher standard than we do NFL general managers (this is in reference to the comment about Kiper rating Mike Williams above a bunch of good current NFLers)?
December 18th, 2009 at 1:56 PM ^
Agreed. I believe there is a YouTube video out there titled "Mike Williams smokes Leon Hall" and just shows a few minute beat down. Well, who turned out to be the (much, much better) pro?