Kindly consider publicly abstaining from crying about Stauskas and GRIII

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February 28th, 2013 at 3:53 PM
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gordie bell
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Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7961
Kindly consider publicly abstaining from crying about Stauskas and GRIII

Nik and GRIII are having very good freshman seasons, on a very good team, in a very difficult conference.

Did you know, since freshman became eligible  in the early 70's, (sorry Cazzie and Rudy), only 22 freshman have averaged double figure in points their freshman year. Of those elite 22, NIk Stauskas has the 2nd highest free throw % and highest 3 point FG % on anybody in Michigan history.

Stauskas currently ranks 4th all time among M freshman in 3 pointers made with 65, trailing only:

THJ 76

Daniel Horton 74

Lou Bullock 70

Horton and Bullock made their's in an era when the 3 point line was a foot shorter.

GRIII: WTF is up with the disappointment with this kid. GRIII is the most exciting basketball player at Michigan in a generation and a great team player. Many a freshman talented like GRIII have pouted when not the focus of the offense, not this kid, he plays his role and does what is best for the team with nary a complaint. Still, GRIII constantly gets criticism because he doesn't have Zack Novak's or Thad Garner's on court disposition. GRIII on court temperament is similar to the great Glen Rice. Because a GRIII or a Glen Rice aren't theatrical  on the court doesn't for a minute mean they are not intense.

Stauskas and GRIII are far from perfect but Michigan is damn fortunate to have these two in the program, plus they are only going to get better. For a pair of freshman, M has rarely seen better.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised with the ignorant impatience of M fans, I heard similar stupid shit about the Fab Five as freshman as they made their way to the National Championship game.

Name 3FG 3FGA 3FG% FT FTA FT% Avg Season
Steve Grote -- --   75 107 0.7 13 73-74
Phil Hubbard -- --   66 113 0.58 15.1 75-76
Mike McGee -- --   97 122 0.8 19.7 77-78
Eric Turner -- --   72 113 0.64 14.7 81-82
Gary Grant -- --   49 60 0.82 12.9 84-85
Jalen Rose 36 111 0.32 149 197 0.76 17.6 91-92
Chris Webber* 14 54 0.26 56 113 0.5 15.5 91-92
Juwan Howard 0 2 0 77 112 0.69 11.1 91-92
Maurice Taylor* 3 7 0.43 59 98 0.6 12.4 94-95
Louis Bullock* 70 182 0.39 98 117 0.84 13.5 95-96
LaVell Blanchard 33 91 0.36 81 98 0.83 14.4 99-00
Kevin Gaines 24 87 0.28 95 139 0.68 11.7 99-00
Jamal Crawford 33 101 0.33 40 51 0.78 16.6 99-00
Bernard Robinson Jr. 27 78 0.35 93 116 0.8 14.4 00-01
Daniel Horton 74 216 0.34 81 106 0.76 15.2 .02-03
Lester Abram 22 54 0.41 89 104 0.86 10.6 .02-03
Dion Harris 58 170 0.34 61 79 0.77 10.1 .03-04
Manny Harris 42 132 0.32 156 191 0.82 16.1 .07-08
Tim Hardaway Jr 76 207 0.37 91 119 0.77 13.9 .10-11
Trey Burke 57 164 0.35 93 125 0.74 14.8 .11-12
Nik Stauskas 65 142 0.46 49 58 0.85 11.8 .12-13
Glenn Robinson III 18 52 0.35 56 80 0.7 11.1 .12-13

 

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February 28th, 2013 at 3:55 PM | Thank you for this. It's (Score:5 Normal)
Colt McBaby Jesus
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Joined: 01/08/2009
MGoPoints: 1200

Thank you for this. It's amazing how quickly people lose perspective.

February 28th, 2013 at 5:05 PM | Any criticism should be (Score:3 Normal)
raiderblue
Joined: 01/23/2011
MGoPoints: 570

Any criticism should be directed at the coaching staff, not the players. Belein recruited them, and plays them. He knows their strenghts and limitations, and should coach acordingly. If Stuaksas can't play defense, and we need a defensive stop, put someone else in! 

February 28th, 2013 at 11:35 PM | Uh ok... (Score:2)
Gulogulo37
Joined: 03/16/2010
MGoPoints: 254

Who would you put in? Sorry he didn't recruit a guy who can come in as a freshman and be a shut-down defender AND Stauskas on offense

February 28th, 2013 at 3:57 PM | Interesting how you don't talk about the defense. (Score:5 Normal)
hart20
hart20's picture
Joined: 05/25/2011
MGoPoints: 3705

Interesting how you don't talk about the defense.

Yep, that's Simba made out of a pineapple.

February 28th, 2013 at 4:17 PM | The point is... (Score:5 Normal)
Gitback
Gitback's picture
Joined: 04/12/2011
MGoPoints: 108

Theses kids don't "owe" any of us a goddamn thing. They're not loafing on defense because they're lazy and think its fun to screw with fans, it's just that the college game is still moving pretty fast for them and they're clearly not fully understanding all of the concepts, assignments and switches being thrown at them on D, but their offense is coming along. Ripping them like they're an insult to the sport is as asinine as it is counter productive. 

...I can puncho yo buns...

 

February 28th, 2013 at 4:22 PM | They have scholarships (Score:5 Normal)
AtkinsDiet
Joined: 01/28/2013
MGoPoints: 88

They have scholarships because college sports can make money for the school. That is done because of fans. Fans are not always going to be perfectly behaved and attempts to wield influence on what makes good fan behavior are largely futile.

Amazes me how many people can't seem to figure out this dynamic.

February 28th, 2013 at 4:33 PM | lolz (Score:4 Normal)
tasnyder01
Joined: 10/11/2010
MGoPoints: 762

the kids are playing a sport they're really fucking good at. They play it better than almost anyone their age. Not only that, but they do so in the best conference in the world. 

And you imply "well, we're fans. And we're irrational. So like, they owe us."

Although I will agree with your last sentence. It's just....we claim to be the "rational" fans because we're from Michigan. More than that, guys, we read sports blogs. As in, we know how good these guys are (or at least, should). come on. 

February 28th, 2013 at 4:40 PM | Yeah, but (Score:5 Normal)
NorCalGoBloo
Joined: 09/28/2008
MGoPoints: 135

Yeah, but some fans are that impressionable.  Bandwagoners will latch on to whatever they perceive to be the prevailing opinion.  So in that sense, authoring a well-thought counter-point may actually cause some people to chill the f-out.  I don't think the OP was expected that everyone would agree with him/stop complaining.  But I also don't think you can argue that it's completely futile, at least to people who act based what others have to say. It's probably better to have more than just negative opinions out there, yes?

You can't win it all back if you don't push more into the middle...

February 28th, 2013 at 7:53 PM | "figure out this dynamic?" (Score:2 Normal)
Tater
Tater's picture
Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 10356

Here's your "dynamic:"  One of the main things that keeps MgoBlog from being like RCMB is the fact that "good fan behavior" is encouraged, and whining about college freshmen who are giving it their all is largely discouraged.

 

 

 

February 28th, 2013 at 4:17 PM | Defense? That's not important (Score:5 Normal)
andrewG
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Joined: 10/20/2010
MGoPoints: 970

Defense? That's not important in basketball!

[flashes back to last night, vomits]

Oh. Well... maybe a little bit important.

February 28th, 2013 at 4:46 PM | They're preparing their game (Score:3 Normal)
MichiganManOf1961
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Joined: 05/18/2012
MGoPoints: 801

They're preparing their game for the next level.

~Herm

Stop the uniform changes! Contact Dave Brandon 734-764-9416.

February 28th, 2013 at 4:31 PM | Is there anyone on the staff (Score:2)
ken725
ken725's picture
Joined: 10/26/2008
MGoPoints: 4540

Is there anyone on the staff that is considered a defensive specialst?  I know Bacari works with the bigs and Lavall Jordan works with the guards.

I'm not exactly sure if Jeff Meyer has a specific role. 

Edit:  Meyer works with the forwards.

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

February 28th, 2013 at 5:15 PM | They know how to coach defense (Score:4 Normal)
True Blue Grit
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Joined: 01/21/2011
MGoPoints: 1212

Look at the team a couple seasons ago.  The ONLY reason they got to the NCAA tournament was because of good defense.  They certainly weren't loaded with talented scorers or athletic big men.  Freshmen can't and won't learn good defense overnight. 

"You owe it to every man, woman, and child in the State of Michigan to beat the Buckeyes and silence their fans!  Now go out there and make it happen!"

- Bo Schembechler (Result: U-M 22  OSU 0)

February 28th, 2013 at 7:01 PM | "Freshmen can't and won't learn good defense overnight" (Score:3 Normal)
robpollard
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Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 597

Anthony Davis would disagree with you.

Also, no one is asking them to be the 2nd coming Scottie Pippen, Kevin Garnett or even Aaron Craft.

But with all the constant "Game Stauskas" chatter and thrill over GRIII's sweet dunks, it can't go unremarked that they are bad (not just needing some work - Stauskas is legimately bad) at defense. Still glad they're both on the team and hope they both improve at D, but there's no use sweeping it under the rug. It's part of their game along with the 3pt bombs and 360 dunks.

It only ends once. Anything that happens before that, is just progress.

February 28th, 2013 at 5:28 PM | Jeff Meyer (Score:3 Funny)
SamGoBlue2
Joined: 06/03/2010
MGoPoints: 121

Meyer actually works with the wings. Think Hardaway, Robinson III, Stauskas, etc. He also happens to be the Beyonce of the staff.

Believe

Beilein

February 28th, 2013 at 3:58 PM | So good; so good. There is a guy over on umhoops (Score:5 Normal)
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 5144

saying that the team's play last night was a "slap in the face" to fans. People are completely comfortable demanding things from young athletes who are giving it their all that they could never do themselves; it's freakin' weird.

Thanks much for this. 

February 28th, 2013 at 4:03 PM | "giving it their all" (Score:3 Normal)
umchicago
Joined: 02/05/2009
MGoPoints: 3531

that's the big question.  i can't speak for off the court, but the past several games, especially on D, makes me question that remark.

February 28th, 2013 at 4:51 PM | would you really imply (Score:2 Normal)
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 5144

that they don't want to succeed? When people imply that kids who had to work extraordinarily hard just to GET here (see Stauskas and 1 million jump shots, etc.) I really think it's inappropriate to infer they're lazy. Yet the charge of laziness is flung around by fans routinely. 

February 28th, 2013 at 6:07 PM | no (Score:-1 Overrated)
February 28th, 2013 at 4:09 PM | There is nothing on Earth (Score:4 Normal)
AtkinsDiet
Joined: 01/28/2013
MGoPoints: 88

There is nothing on Earth that people will dedicate a lot of time, hope and sometimes money in and not feel at least some sense of demand on a return. Yes, it is weirder with young athletes than with something like a professional comapny and people should watch what they say. But it is simply human nature to feel a bit entitled when you invest heavily.

As long as the words are not directed at the athletes personally (like we saw with Nik on Twitter after the OSU game), I don't have a problem with a little venting.

February 28th, 2013 at 3:59 PM | I think when people assume a (Score:3 Normal)
evenyoubrutus
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Joined: 11/04/2008
MGoPoints: 4707

I think when people assume a kid is a one-and-done they start to get impatient.  Maybe we shouldn't assume GRIII is a one-and-done.

Not that I loved Rich Rod less, but that I loved Michigan more.

February 28th, 2013 at 4:12 PM | GRIII is not, and never was, (Score:4 Normal)
Belisarius
Joined: 08/12/2010
MGoPoints: 1042

GRIII is not, and never was, a one and done kid. He came out strong in mock drafts because he has a high-profile name, played for a high-profile team, and had a massive surplus of highlight reel plays. That's all a lot of these people making mock drafts see: stat lines and highlights. But any judge of horseflesh could tell you he didn't have the skill set yet. He doesn't generate offense on his own, doesn't play defense, doesn't rebound the ball...
And none of this should be interpreted as malice to Little Dog. He's a god kid and he'll be a good player. I just always laugh when I see people crediting mock drafts as anything other than a source of entertainment. GRII has a big future if he can grow as a player, but if he went out now? 2nd Round at best, based on athleticism alone.

Don't quote laws to us. We carry swords.

-Pompeius Magnus

February 28th, 2013 at 4:00 PM | -1, because don't tell me (Score:5 Normal)
robbyt003
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Joined: 10/25/2010
MGoPoints: 2585

-1, because don't tell me what to do. 

“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing” - Bo Schembechler

February 28th, 2013 at 4:01 PM | I will fix that if it means a (Score:5 Normal)
gordie bell
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Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7961

I will fix that if it means a plus one vote

February 28th, 2013 at 4:11 PM | Much better! (Score:5 Normal)
robbyt003
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Joined: 10/25/2010
MGoPoints: 2585

Much better!

“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing” - Bo Schembechler

February 28th, 2013 at 4:07 PM | I noticed you didn't put (Score:4 Normal)
Soulfire21
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Joined: 03/18/2010
MGoPoints: 3130

I noticed you didn't put anything in about defense.  That's pretty cool if our freshman can score a lot of points, but doesn't come in use when those freshman are giving up more than they are scoring.

I do agree about the impatience/entitlement/whathaveyou about Michigan fans regarding basketball.  I think we lost sight that just a few short years ago we were bursting with excitement about making the NCAA tournament, now we're talking Big Ten championships and one seeds.  Remember last year we won our first Big Ten championship since 1986?

I suppose I'm agreeing and disagreeing with you.

At the end of the day, we've got to realize our 5 guys on the floor consist of 60-80% freshmen.  Last year they were in high school -- not the Big Ten -- and their season was significantly shorter.  They are a talented group -- nobody would deny that -- but we are asking  alot of them.

HAIL.

February 28th, 2013 at 4:03 PM | Not to mention (Score:2 Normal)
qbyrd
qbyrd's picture
Joined: 11/28/2009
MGoPoints: 75

That it hasn't even been 1 yr since they went to their highschool prom. 

I loved the players we had last yr that graduated, but this is a better team with freshmen on it.  Freshman have room to improve too seeing that they have up to 3 more yrs in school..........just incase some think they have reached their ceiling after a few months of college b-ball.

“Any time Detroit scores more than 100 points and holds the other team below 100 points, they almost always win.” – Doug Collins
February 28th, 2013 at 4:05 PM | Agree on GRIII, who is a big (Score:1 Normal)
AtkinsDiet
Joined: 01/28/2013
MGoPoints: 88

Agree on GRIII, who is a big talent still figuring it out and still doesn't have enough stuff run for him. That baseline drive he had last night should be something Beilein tries to get for him more often.

Stauskas is a little different. A freshman, yes, but he's out on the floor. You can't play the type of defense we are seeing from him lately no matter what age you are.

 

February 28th, 2013 at 4:10 PM | Both are works in progress (Score:3 Normal)
gordie bell
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Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7961

Both are works in progress and I'm not defending Stauskas' D.  However, did you see Stauskas getting rebounds and starting the break with a quick outlet pass? That was a new and improved facet of Stauskas' game last night that will largely go unmentioned but I thought it was noticeable and encouraging.

February 28th, 2013 at 4:14 PM | I think that is why Levert is (Score:3 Normal)
ken725
ken725's picture
Joined: 10/26/2008
MGoPoints: 4540

I think that is why Levert is getting more time. 

One minor thing about Stauskas is that he leaves his feet too many times on drives.  I'm sure that is something that can easily be fixed.

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

February 28th, 2013 at 4:38 PM | Leaving feet (Score:2)
Naked Bootlegger
Naked Bootlegger's picture
Joined: 01/28/2011
MGoPoints: 1211

This seems to be rampant in today's game.   There aren't a lot of players who instinctively know how to drive to the basket under complete control.   In most cases, taking an extra dribble to slide around a defender, stopping under control and executing a pump fake, or just pulling up for a jump shot over a stationary defender trying to take a charge will eliminate the charging.  

Relatedly, I almost pooped my pants when Trey pulled up for a mid-range jumper on a fast break last evening.   Attacking the rim is good, but players are leaving a lot of high percentage offensive opporunties on the floor by not opting for a 10-15 foot jumper. 

February 28th, 2013 at 4:06 PM | Pretendng defense doesn't (Score:3 Normal)
JimBobTressel
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Joined: 11/28/2010
MGoPoints: 32

Pretendng defense doesn't exist? that's nice but it's half of basketball. 

ATTN NBA Dads and Siblings: Have brothers / sons on the hoops come-up? 

Michigan = NBA Family U

February 28th, 2013 at 4:15 PM | When you are bitching about (Score:5 Normal)
gordie bell
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Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7961

When you are bitching about Stauskas' D  do you point out the historically good year he is having offensively as a freshman?

February 28th, 2013 at 4:17 PM | I think the point is that one (Score:5 Normal)
Belisarius
Joined: 08/12/2010
MGoPoints: 1042

I think the point is that one without the other is an equally invalid argument. You have to take the good with the bad and visa versa.

Don't quote laws to us. We carry swords.

-Pompeius Magnus

February 28th, 2013 at 4:18 PM | I don't think he, or anyone, (Score:2 Normal)
Soulfire21
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Joined: 03/18/2010
MGoPoints: 3130

I don't think he, or anyone, is denying that Stauskas is having a good offensive year.  That doesn't mean you ignore the other half of the game, though.  I commend him on offense, but question his defense.  Good thing is he's a freshman and should see improvement.

HAIL.

February 28th, 2013 at 4:53 PM | Oh, that's like saying the (Score:3 Normal)
MichiganManOf1961
MichiganManOf1961's picture
Joined: 05/18/2012
MGoPoints: 801

Oh, that's like saying the quarterback had a great game because he threw 5 TDs and ignoring the fact that he also threw 5 interceptions.  That's some Big 12 football mentality right there folks.

~Herm

Stop the uniform changes! Contact Dave Brandon 734-764-9416.

February 28th, 2013 at 6:47 PM | Historically good over the (Score:4 Normal)
feanor
Joined: 09/27/2011
MGoPoints: 250

Historically good over the course of the whole season sure.  I don't think his numbers over the last 2 months are anywhere near histoically great for a B1G freshman.  He has disappeared in conference.  Yes he did great against a bunch of nobodies, but don't act like he has been "great" when it actually matters, he hasn't.

February 28th, 2013 at 4:08 PM | The problem isn't the freshman... (Score:1)
AriGold
AriGold's picture
Joined: 02/28/2013
MGoPoints: 115

...they are going to make mistakes on defense because they are young. The main problem is the fact that Beilein replaces them with LeVert and Albrect instead of going big with Horford and McGary/Morgan. Mich is getting smoked down low more often than not, small ball doesn't work against the B1G's elite teams...If Beilein keeps this up we will have another early exit from the dance.

 

Tell Drama he’s on the top of my list of things to do today, along with inserting needles in my cock!

February 28th, 2013 at 4:10 PM | I was never one to (Score:4 Normal)
trueblue262
trueblue262's picture
Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 5

bitch about any of the players, but if you are suggesting that we should all be happy with the performance last night, your crazy. Just because they have a good FT % and 3PT % compared to other freshmen, really has nothing to do with playing defense to protect a 11 pt lead with 8 minutes to go against a team that is a the bottom of the conference. And winless in the conference. Thats what I'm bitchin' about!!

GRwolverine73

February 28th, 2013 at 4:44 PM | you + are = you're protect (Score:1)
OmarDontScare
OmarDontScare's picture
Joined: 08/13/2010
MGoPoints: 1484

you + are = you're

protect an 11 pt lead

Ok, on with the bitching...

I got the shotgun. You got the briefcase. It's all in the game though, right?

February 28th, 2013 at 4:12 PM | Why do you focus on offense only? (Score:2 Normal)
Zoltanrules
Zoltanrules's picture
Joined: 08/23/2009
MGoPoints: 265

This team's issues, other than relying on Burke too much, has little to do with offense. It has everything to do with team defense, especially in the interior, and toughness. 

Stauskas and Robinson, like most freshmen, are poster children for these weaknesses. Is it fair to single them out? Probably not. Are they ofensive players with great upside? Absolutely.

I don't like to single out players but am actually more disappointed in the defensive play of Hardaway, Horford and yes even Burke (who would get torched on defense in the NBA).

Defense and toughness wins championships in all sports, so don't concentrate on all those offense stats and let's look at steals, rebounds, charges taken, blocked shots, forced turnovers.  Morgan had only 1 point the other night and Dakich correctly said he was the difference in the game.

Beilein is a fine coach and I'm sure knows all this and then some.

 "I don’t wanna live in Rainbow Land, and you can’t make me!"

February 28th, 2013 at 6:20 PM | exactly (Score:1)
umchicago
Joined: 02/05/2009
MGoPoints: 3531

how often do GRIII and stauskus take a charge? hardaway, morgan and mcgary do.  even levert tries to take more charges and he hardly plays.

i give burke a bit of a pass on D, since he has to shoulder so much of the load on offense.  that said, he turns it up a notch every now and then and generally makes a few good plays on D each game.

if the idea is that GRIII and stauskus are wearing down, especially late in games, then i say bench them more.  especially GRIII.  why does he play the most minutes? imo, he's the least effective starter we have.

February 28th, 2013 at 6:53 PM | But who is GRIII's back up?  (Score:3 Normal)
WolvinLA2
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Joined: 11/13/2009
MGoPoints: 17610

But who is GRIII's back up?  He's really the only 4 on the team.  McGary, Horford and Morgan are all 5s, especially in our offense.  And outside of those guys, no one else can guard another team's 4.

That said, we have been playing 2 bigs more often than we were before, but remember that for probably 75% of the games this season, Horford or Morgan were out with injuries, so for most of our games GRIII has really been our only option at the 4.

February 28th, 2013 at 10:21 PM | GRIII (Score:1)
umchicago
Joined: 02/05/2009
MGoPoints: 3531

played 40 min last nite.  perhaps even 4-5 min of bielfeldt each half could have made GRIII better or fresher during the minutes he played, if it was a fatigue issue.  but he obviously "wasn't getting after it".

February 28th, 2013 at 4:14 PM | That's great (Score:1 Offtopic)
Center Ice
Center Ice's picture
Joined: 04/03/2010
MGoPoints: 2851

But Stauskas turns the ball over way too much, in the worst ways.

He's not the primary ball handler, 5 turnovers in a game is unacceptable.

Twitter

February 28th, 2013 at 4:14 PM | By 22 freshman, I think you (Score:1 Overrated)
elaydin
elaydin's picture
Joined: 04/17/2010
MGoPoints: 2196

By 22 freshman, I think you mean 19.  Three of the players on the list don't exist.

February 28th, 2013 at 4:18 PM | Who cares about those stats (Score:-1 Flamebait)
February 28th, 2013 at 4:21 PM | If you think that is what I (Score:5 Normal)
gordie bell
gordie bell's picture
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7961

If you think that is what I was trying to tell you, you are dumber than my dog

February 28th, 2013 at 4:19 PM | Hmm (Score:1 Normal)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5142

Usually Gordy is a bitterman,  I don't appreciate this balanced hopeful post at all Gordy.    I might begrudingly upvote it it is so solid. 

Also WTF is Webber doing jacking all those 3's   Come on Fischer !!!

Maurice Taylor should have expanded his game.   Come on Fischer!!!

 

Also,  I know I spelled Gordy's name wrong.   I'm channeling my inner Hoke and going Ohio on Gordy.

February 28th, 2013 at 8:10 PM | Who is this (Score:2 Normal)
DemetriusBrown
DemetriusBrown's picture
Joined: 01/01/2013
MGoPoints: 655

"Fischer" guy????

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