This is maaaaybe premature there, ESPN. Maryland #1 FWIW.
You are a brave man creating this thread today. Good luck and godspeed.
everybody here knows that we are heading in the right direction. It just hurts more when you have the better team and lose. That is what is so painful about this year. We should be 11-1 and blowing out Wisconsin next week. The ship has been righted but this year just could have been a lot more than it was.
We definitely could have won today's game, and that stings - but I would not say we had the better team. Our overall talent level is not where a typical Michigan team's is. We're not going to have slew of high draft picks in 2013 and '14.
I feel that this year's team didn't overachieve or underachieve - it performed about as expected. What's tough is that it comes after 2011, when we seriously overachieved, so it looks like a comedown.
The offensive and defensive lines were mediocre, Denard is a limited as a QB, and the WR's lack speed. UM was always a 8-4 team with this schedule.
It isn't the coaches fault that you had unrealistic expectations. Michigan was what I thought it was. A solid, but not outstanding team.
By my math, we are headed in the direction of 6 losses (linearly) or 8 losses (exponentially). Unless you are an anti-fan, that is unequivicably a bad sign.
This hallowed university and its fanbase demand success in three years, or else.
The honeymoon is over and we're starting to realize our dream courting period (last year) might be very different from actual marriage. This is the fight trying to find the airport in Rome when the husband has gotten lost four times already and the wife just wants to ask every non-english speaker for directions.
I get frustrated with Borges to, but our center and guards are not players who can run block in the BIG. You can't win against top ten teams if you can't run between the tackles. Just isn't going to happen.
Stay calm? This is a great idea. I think I will start another thread and tell people to stay calm so they know that I think they should.
you do know that the BIG 10 has been terrible the last 2 years right?
Limitations at QB and on defense make these teams less than typical Michigan squads. Check back next year. I suspect we will start to see a team that looks like Bo and Mo's squads.
with a very rookie O-line ? Better hope the freshman stepping up are significantly better than the guys who can't block at all now..
completely! I hated to lose this game, but we finished 8-4 in the regular season which is what I expected.
Let's get the bowl win and move on, even though it feels butt hurt.
To say we are going in the right direction doesn't mean Borges is helping... These thoughts are not mutually exclusive. He's clearly been the downfall of a number of games over the last two years so if that trend continues, why should we believe the resutls will be any different.
A number of games? Maybe MSU last year and OSU this year. This year you can't blame ND, Neb, or Bama on him.
I think we have moved past the RichRod days but worry today is a sign we may linger in the Carr days if Hoke does not correct his coaching problems. Don't blame the players. And don't forget, good players don't want to play for teams that don't win the big games.
Once we get rid of Al "I only like plays that don't work" Borges.
It's just one guy I am upset with. His name rhymes with Forges.
...if this will provide any solace, but Michigan lost 4 games this season to teams that are a combined 44-3. (That said, 3 of those losses were winnable.)
I saw nothing this season to make me think that we shouldn't be optimistic about the future of Michigan football.
Nobody really wants calm right now. Sobering up has only made me feel worse. For once I would like some accountability instead of that same old dry tired coach speak we're going to get. That second half was almost like watching the Iowa game yesterday. Can I get one qb bootleg run pass option with DG? Unbelievable ...
Seems like every year people are saying "We are going in the right direction" or "Wait until next year". We should be winning now. Something isn't right.
That is winning.
What isn't right is your understanding of where UM is at. Did you really expect UM to win 11 games with little speed at WR, a limited QB, and rebuilt lines? If you did then you had unrealistic expectations.
Exactly... Look what Devin did with the passing game since NEB.
But today - and I undersand better OSU D than prior competitors- he had success then that disastrous 2nd half.
Sick of the constant losing.
HOKE - not Borges, Mattinson, this is on HOKE... He better win next year or that's 11/12 years that we've been beat. And then, really, is it a rivalry if we lose next year given the consistent losses? If you want to be rational, when 1 team beats another consistently, it may be a rivalry but lacks true outcome uncertainty.
While this loss ultimately goes on the head coach's record, the losses before 2011 do not. It's not Brady Hoke's fault that you might have accummulated frustration from the 2004-10 seasons. He was not here during that time. Hoke has only lost to Ohio one time - on the road, against an undefeated team, without his starting RB and with his starting QB unable to throw. Let's keep that in mind. Before the season, if someone had told you those would be the circumstances in which we'd face Ohio, would you have predicted a win?
Just think how far the program has come since Hoke has been hired. A few years ago Michigan was losing to Toledo and having offensive shootouts with basically every opponent on the schedule (UMass, Illinois, etc.) while getting torched by any elite opponents. Now Michigan is destroying lesser Big Ten opponents, and hanging tough with the upper level Big Ten teams. They even took #1 ND and undefeated OSU down to the wire. The program is moving in the right direction, I believe we just need a little more time to allow Hoke's recruits come in as well as build some depth and Michigan will be able to hang with the elite teams and pull out some of these close games against top teams.
No putting Denard in motion, no mis direction plays, no short quick passes to Denard or any other of our playmakers, no use of the tight end over the middle to keep the chains moving. This was the worst display of play calling by an experience "high" priced OC I've ever seen. Hoke has to shoulder some blame for not getting on the head set and taking charge. Why would Borges keep taking Devin out after he would complete a pass? He refused to let him get in a rythm.
Calm you say!!! Calm is or after the season not now
I'm hoping today's game plan from Al Borges was an aberration and not something that's going to happen again. I hope when Brandon reviews the program with Hoke that he says something about this to him. I almost want to say Borges choked by calling a very conservative game plan when he had the weapons to do otherwise. The 2nd half 3rd down plays were horrible - running Vincent Smith and Denard into the strength of their defense. And not putting Denard and Devin in the game at the same time for more plays was completely baffling.
UM lost close games to two of the top three teams in the country and is possibly one injury away from playing in the B1G title game. Despite injuries to their best corner, losing almost the entire DL and OL, and next to no running game outside of Denard and Devin, the team won 8 games and has a chance for 9.
Has anybody else played the top three teams in the country? Has anybody else lost to two of those teams by one possession, on the road? This is not 1997, but it's also not 2010. There is a lot of talent and more coming in that will give us great depth for the next few years.
Believe me, I would have loved to spoil OSU's season and beat them every year, and when we lose, it sucks. That said, I am very happy that we did not get embarrassed like in 2008 and 2010, and very excited for the future of Michigan football and The Game.
Best post-game post of the day. Fact based; not emotional. Not including the Alabama game it's a much shorter list of plays we'd like to have back to get to a better record this year than in many recent years. Hoke has this - just like Beilein did a couple of years ago when people were impatiently expecting more in a shorter time frame. Chill out and enjoy basketball being further along the curve. Hoke et al do have this.
Sorry, but it's ridiculous to say they are the same. Beilein is considered one of the best, has succeeded greatly where ever he went. Hoke had a career losing record. Hoke has a talent advantage in 3/4 of the games he coaches in. Beilein had to build from scratch.
Even without talent, Beilein outschemed coaches and won upsets. Has Hoke ever had an upset win?
In ten years coaching Hoke as beaten a ranked team three times.
Not really comparing the coaches as much as I was comparing the time it takes to program build and the frequent call for a coaches head when it takes "too long". Right - Beilein has done more with less but that was primarily because it took him longer to sign 5-star caliber players; on the other hand, Hoke has had blue-chip recruiting success immediately. We really dont know at this point how that will influence outcomes next year Point is that it is a process to rebuild a program. Including being knocked around while you figure out how to be successful in the big ten (no matter how marginal a league in some years).
If you knew anything about MAC football you would know how amazing an accomplishment is. Most of his losses came from his time at BSU.Then he got SDSU up and winning within two years. Hoke has a track record of success.
As to your second "point" about Hoke only beating three ranked teams in ten years is spectaculalrly misleading. At BSU and SDSU, the opporunties to beat rank teams is few and far between. At BSU most times those were BCS schools. Schools with much better players. I hardly think it a negative that he failed to beat a top 25 BCS school while at BSU.
In two years Hoke has defeated all three rivals. undefeated at home, rebuilt UM's shattered defense, and won a BCS bowl.
He's never really upset anyone. He's not really won a game he wasnt expected to win. The chance to beat a ranked team has been there, he hasnt done it.
He's been outcoached in every game where he didnt have a decided talent advantage except nebraska last year.
Last year: nd, msu, osu, va tech
This year, bama, nd, msu, nebraska, msu, osu.
This team could easily be 6-6 after a 9-4 season the year before if not for some miracle plays. Right now he looks like Weis, at worst and Les at best.
Purdue, MSU, UAB..OSU really was outcoached at times this year. Heck, even today his offense look poorly prepared. 9 pts on 4 TO's? That's awful.
11 to 10 seasons. Both started in the MAC. Urban has won two national titles and had two other undefeated seasons. You can argue that there are ames Urban got outcoached, fine, but he won ALL of those games
Could have nothing to do with it but If I am a top flight offensive skill player... i am not sure i am thrilled with what i see from Borges
Everyone does know that these players were NOT Urban's players at OSU. Last time I checked they went 12-0. I don't buy into the whole "these aren't their players" argument.
That wasn't the case for RR or Hoke here at UM. It doesn't matter if you recruited them or not so much as whether they fit your system.
Painful that with a competent OC we are looking at 10-2 or 11-1.
Borges has had a terrible gameplan in all of our marquee games this year. And really, that extends to last year as well. Or losses are bound by a common thread: horrible, terrible play calling.
Off tackle runs and passes we destroying OSU, so what do we do? Completely abandon that successful formula and run the ball up the middle, punt. Repeat. Borges is stubborn, and bullheaded. He has a gameplan that he will execute, regardless of its effectiveness. He absolutely refuses to exploit the defense. In this case, he catered our 2nd half offense (after a successful first half, all the more maddening) exactly to Ohio State's strengths.
Get off this board and don't come back.
Look at the recruiting a little harder. Do you see ONE difference maker on offense other than Morris? I do not see this offense getting any better over the next 3-4 years.
The west coast is about match ups - so, yeah, Funchess for one
Look at the recruiting a little harder. Do you see ONE difference maker on offense other than Morris?
What about Kalis, Magnuson, Bosch, Fox, Kugler? Do linemen not count? That would be odd if so, since they make up five of the 11 positions on offense.
How about Funchess? Darboh? Shallman? Norfleet? All were/are four-star guys (and Funchess has clearly lived up to it thus far).
I actually do not think we are heading in the right direction. Our coaching staff is quite clearly inept at developing offense. Our defense will remain stout and we will continue to struggle mightily against good competition, occasionally winning a few big games at home. This feels a whole lot like the late Carr years.
The champ-sports-outback who gives a damn bowl aside, I can't wait for next season. I expect a team that is better in every way. This was a solid season, you all remember 2008 right? Someone here said prophetically that they expected an 8-4 season but a better team than last year. This is the right direction.
Our best win of the year was over northwestern with a hail Mary saving our butts. I guess we did beat state but then again they have 6 losses. 4 losses on the road. I think people thought it would be easy, it's not. We are not physical and good enough to beat good teams, it's as simple as that.
You do realize this is the weakest big ten in a very long time right? You also realize that we finished with the same record as Penn State a team that lost a large part of their team to transfers? You also realize that we really only have one quality win? This year was not a success.
I don't think this year was any great success, but we should acknowledge that playing three of the top four teams in the country (according to the AP), all on road or neutral sites, is a tough row to hoe. I don't think any other team in the country had to do that.
Yeah it's tough, but we just did what 120 or so other teams in the country would have done and lost all 3. Used to be a time when Michigan would actually have won at least one of those games...
This loss had the same marks of the losses to ND and Neb. On the road, turnover festival and calls for Borges' job. Unfortunately, these seem to define team 133's legacy. This team missed difference makers on the lines. No Mike Martin, no Rimington award winning David Molk. I think a lot of the mistakes and breakdowns on the o line aided the skill players' underperformance in all those games. Probably also in the 'Bama game. The defense was good, but lacked a dominating player. I hated this loss today, but I don't believe we are headed in the wrong direction. It seems pretty bleak, especially with them winning so many in the last decade, but in the Brady Hoke era we are 1-1 and he is recruiting well. After all the depression of the last twelve years, I do believe, even if I'm not feeling it right now, we will not be dominated by Ohio in the future.
Being married to a buckeye, today just sucks.... But it seems like the GAME is again a competitive war with home field advantage playing a big role. We need to hold serve next year.
Howeva': watching DG run the west coast offense gives me great hope for next year. As long as a few of our highly touted young linemen develop, we should have a great season with next year's schedule.
I hope the staff takes the next few weeks to advance devin as a qb and denard as a multi-purpose (wr/rb) threat (where he will play on Sundays) so we can crush our bowl opponent.
While I look forward to a new season every season, I don't think everyone should set the bar extremely high next year. Unless Lewan comes back for his senior season, we'll only have one returner starter on the OL. Our leading rusher (Denard) will be playing on sundays next year and WR depth will be even worse next year with only one starter returning along with The Threat. Even if 3rd year Borges is electrifying, next year is a rebuilding year.
My point is that we are all upset because this team had all of the tools for this year to be our year to take the Big Ten.
We may have had all the tools if Denard and Fitz could have played all season. Denard being unable to throw the last 4.5 games of the season and Fitz missing Bama and Ohio changed the situation quite a bit. Gardner played really well given the circumstances, but I don't think we were expecting him to deliver a victory in the Shoe.
Calmer than you are.