According to Rivals front page, it looks as if Justice Hayes has also made it to AA today. Seems like odd timing to me with Dee in town. Do you all think this is to gauge interest in Dee's interest in UM? Maybe he is trying to beat Dee to the punch? Or maybe they team up like Lebron and Co. and want to form a super backfield withi D-Rob. (hey, I can dream right?) What do you all think?
Justice Hayes on Campus Friday?
That would be beyond sweet.
He's also a good talent, but how many spots do we have for RBs? I was under the impression the class was relatively small (19?) and we already have a solid number of young RBs on the team. While that is a good position to have depth at, do we really have room for both of them in the backfield? I thought this was the year of the OL and LB in terms of recruitment need.
Those are two guys you make room for. Needs are one thing but immediate impact is another.
I agree that talent is great and I'm certainly in support of grabbing one if possible. Taken from the rivals site though, our RB depth looks like:
|15||Michael Cox||RB||So.||RS||6-0/215||Dorchester, MA (Avon Old Farms)|
|33||Stephen Hopkins||RB||Fr.||6-0/236||Double Oak, TX (Marcus)|
|49||John McColgan||FB||Jr.||RS||6-1/238||Saginaw, MI (Nouvel Catholic)|
|44||Mark Moundros||FB||Sr.||RS||6-1/234||Farmington Hills, MI (North)|
|20||Michael Shaw||RB||Jr.||6-1/181||Trotwood, OH (Trotwood-Madison)|
|2||Vincent Smith||RB||So.||5-6/169||Pahokee, FL (Pahokee)|
|32||O'Neil Swanson||RB||Fr.||RS||5-10/158||West Bloomfield, MI (Detroit Country Day)|
|28||Fitzgerald Toussaint||RB||Fr.||RS||5-10/199||Youngstown, OH (Liberty)|
|23||Austin White||RB||Fr.||6-0/196||Livonia, MI (Stevenson)|
So do we really have room for 2 more RBs. How much of an "immediate impact" will BOTH of them make? Cox, Shaw, Hopkins, Smith, Toussaint will all probably get into the mix next year and Austin White may as well by the time Dee and/or Hayes reach campus. Presumably they arent all going to be taking 1-2 carries a game. Thus, by numbers alone that means several of those kids will be riding the bench. Don't get me wrong, I love what I've seen on both of the recruits, but I just dont think there are enough carries to go around. Particularly in a small recruiting class with other positions in dire need.
Yes, we have a good mix -- however, it's Division 1 football -- competition is going to be a key part of any position; especially in impact positions such as QB, RB, WR.
Swanson, McColgan, and Moundros are pretty irrelevant here.
I know. I just copied + pasted the table from Rivals, but in my actual comments regarding the situation I did not mention any of those 3. It still seems like a crowded backfield to me. That leaves 6 guys who could all potentially see the field, and with one of Hart/Hayes thats 7. Do we really need to be recruiting 8 deep at running back in a small class when we have other concerns? Especially since 7 of the 8 (all except Shaw) of these guys would be on campus together for a couple years.
Well, not all 8 of them would be on campus at the same time - Shaw will be a senior in 2011 when Hayes/Hart get to college.
Your point still stands. And I agree that we probably shouldn't take 2. But if the class keeps expanding like it has/will, then I wouldn't mind an extra RB in this class, especially when a few of these running backs have position versatility (White, Smith, Hart).
EDIT: I wrote the Shaw thing prior to your correction.
I don't know how RB stocking would be affected by RR's spread, but we used to stock an endless stable of star RBs. One guy gets injured...next star steps up.
We might have had a constant run of stars, but we typically only had a handful of running backs. I don't remember a time when Michigan had 7 or 8 scholarship tailbacks. Of course, we used to have fullbacks on scholarship, which isn't really the case anymore. Now those 1 or 2 scholarships previously reserved for fullbacks can be used elsewhere, like superback...
I won't pretend that I remembered all this stuff offhand, but I remembered Max Martin coming in for 2004 and noted the following. I'm not sure if all of these guys were on scholarship, but we had 8 RB's in 2004:
Max Martin (highly prized RB recruit) -Fr
Mike Hart (we all know how that turned out) -Fr
Jerome Jackson (4*) - So
Pierre Rembert (4*) - Jr?
On top of those RB's, we had 4 FB's. That's a big handful!
From what I recall, Bradley and Wilson were walk-ons. I'm not sure about Bracken.
So that's 5 or 6 tailbacks, which is a handful (or one more than a handful).
...is anything more than a handful really a waste?
So that's 5/6 plus the 4 FB's. That two handfuls!
I think that we load up if it doesn't hurt us in other areas of need (and the kids welcome the competition). It seems like RB is a position that flames out more often than other spots (i.e. Max Martin, Pierre Rembert).
Did you miss my earlier post?
I don't remember a time when Michigan had 7 or 8 scholarship tailbacks. Of course, we used to have fullbacks on scholarship, which isn't really the case anymore.
I've already acknowledged everything you said, prior to you saying it.
Easy, player. No one's fighting with ya.
I remember exactly what you said, about how the FB scholarships could be used elsewhere,etc. I believe you said "superback". Whatever type of "back" we call it, I'm happy to have as much talent as possible as long as we aren't taking away necessary spots from other positions. Now...exhale.
I'm not angry. I just don't see why you're basically repeating things I've already said when trying to debate me.
Dude. No one is "trying to debate you". I said (initially) that I recalled a day when we had tons of talented RBs in the stable and wondered why not do it again. Then, I pulled up a list from a year I remembered thinking we had a lot of backs and, yes, we had a bunch...just as we would with both Hart and Hayes (like with Hart and Martin that year). No biggie. You win the debate I wasn't having.
It'll be a tight squeeze. But remember last year, Fitz was supposed to get major playing time but got hurt, Minor hurt, Brown on again off again, Smith ACL. Now you've got Shaw and Cox who have yet to get major carries, so that leaves me to question their ability to contribute. So no I don't think a couple extra impact players is a bad thing. Shit happens.
Whether you agree with the statement or not is one thing. You certainly make a good point about our depth. But even the coaches would tell you that we will take both of these RBs if given the chance. Evidenced by the situation we had this spring with no RBs standing out as the solid starter, I'm pretty sure any coach would tell you to bring in more talent at that position. Even if there are a lot of bodies there.
But even the coaches would tell you that we will take both of these RBs if given the chance.
That's a big assumption on your part.
I agree that you make room for two RB's if it is these two. Hart is Rivals #2 all purpose back while Hayes is #5 on that list. While our other backs have potential in different areas of the game, none have been this highly regarded.
If both Hart and Haynes want to commit then great. We can take one less DB, WR or something, still load up on OL and LB and afford to have two top 100 players sign up.
didn't we do this with WR, at the expense of the defense a few years back? Seemed to not work then either
We already have a super backfield. The only problem is that our foals haven't run any derbies yet.
We have a deep backfield with good talent. When you have a shot at 2 top 100 RB's you take them. Injuries happen. Carlos Brown, Brandon Minor, Antonio Bass could be used as reasons to take what you can get in great players.
The potential is super, until that potential is fulfilled, keep filling the stable. This offense needs a true superback.
Right now we have our lead starting candidate (V Smtih)rehabbing a knee injury.
Shaw has had some minor injury and dancing around issues.
Cox is strong one minute and weak the next (insert ED joke here).
Fitz's high school tape is phenomenal, but has he recovered from his injuries?
White is a great pass catcher, but probably needs a redshirt year to get up to steam on everything else.
Hopkins is a bruiser, but not a home run threat.
If Hart and Hayes want in, we make room for them. I doubt we'll have that issue though. My gut says hart is Blue, Hayes is a domer.
Until then, we need to find and recruit as many "impact backs" as we can without hampering our ability to recruit for other needs. In addition to our other needs, we need a back that can stay healthy and break the game wide open at any time-as of yet we don't have one. If there's one thing about last season that is seemed to be overlooked(maybe not?), it's the impact our running backs could have had if Brown and Minor were healthy for the whole season. I wonder how previous WV teams would have fared w/ Slaton battling injuries in the same way that Brown and Minor did.
I don't think Hayes is enough of a difference-maker that the staff would make room for him (assuming they already had Hart in the fold). He's a good prospect, but not as huge a priority as he's being touted by some in this thread.
Well, pending they don't pull his scholarship (which they won't), the staff has made room for him already.
(Pure speculation). Because there's offers and then there are "offers".
That's a seriously naive view of recruiting. I... I just don't even know how to respond.
Given our great luck with running back injuries the last 2 years, having more wouldn't be a huge issue but as Tim said above, Hayes doesn't make that instant impact.
This class is going to be a bigger class than we expected. Originally it was going to be 13-14. I think we'll take 17+ by the time it's all said and done.
Also, we have a running back or two who could end up at receiver/slot receiver. Hart and Hayes could even play some slot as youngsters if they're not going to start at RB.
That being said . . . I think the kids themselves will sort this out. I don't see Hayes wanting to come to Michigan if Hart commits. It's already a big uphill battle with the depth, let alone having another highly touted player in the same class.
"I don't see Hayes wanting to come to Michigan if Hart commits."
That probably says all that needs to be said about Hayes at this point. Whether we'd take both or not is irrelevant because we won't land both of them.
Hayes is trying to visit everyone in his top 6 before he makes his last cutdown to 3, though it might be 4 when its all said and done, imo. He named ND and UT to his top 3 yesterday so it will be interesting to see who that last team (or two) is.
I know Hayes is trimming his list to 3 after the Michigan visit so we will see whats up after this weekend. That being said I can't see him commiting if/when Dee Hart does unless he is Ok with playing slot receiver or loves competition. And I think White ultimately moves to slot also and if Hopkins gains any more weight he has a chance to be a freak LB.
Jay, Hopkins will be what he appears...a natural born killer in the offensive backfield.
I thought half this board hated Justice Hayes? Now we like him again?
This is confusing
Completely aside from my above comments regarding a rather full RB roster, part of me really does want Justice Hayes so whenever he pulls off a great run I can yell "FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!!!!"
We can find room for both of these guys.
Seems like it would be a better name for a linebacker... but whatever. How sick would it be to have Hayes and Hart?!